Marston Vale Line class 230 units - an apology?

[DarloRich]

I have been very vocal on how crap the vivarail/lnwr units/service has been on the Marston Vale line in recent years. I may owe them the beginnings of an apology. Since the timetable was changed earlier this year reliability has been, whisper it, good (at least on the most important college/commuter time runs). On only one day has the service completely collapsed in the kind of nonsense that occurred before the service was suspended for the pandemic.

Yes, the service is being run in defined "blocks" of 2 out and back services 3 or 4 times a day and yes, that cant be putting a lot of stress on the units but they have been chugging well and might be becoming useful little units! Time keeping has also been, generally, good with only a couple of long delays. Obviously we have the usual low level time loss with these units/operation style but beyond that things have been good.

OBVIOUSLY the timetable still doesn't work and delivers you into Bletchley just as a northbound train pulls out but at least the unit seems to be working.

Whisper it quietly but things MIGHT ( just might ) have improved. Bet I am walking home tonight now I have said that!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I sympathise for the users of the line in high summer though. They’re not fun in the heat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I used it on Saturday and it picked up 15 minutes' delay at Kempston Hardwick towards Bedford on the outbound (which I wasn't on), and didn't recover that until quite a bit later. I originally suspected that it was maybe the level crossing there which continues to cause issues, but fitters then boarded at Bletchley so maybe it was the unit.

I guess we shall see, it's getting warm!

I still think the things are a lovely quirk when working, though the loss of the traditional branch line guard is a bit of a shame (they mostly don't do tickets now, TVMs are provided at the stations and it's too slow to work from passenger doors, too much time is lost).

 

[DarloRich]

@Bletchleyite 15 minutes barely counts as a delay on the Vale service!

 

[Spartacus]

I have been very vocal on how crap the vivarail/lnwr units/service has been on the Marston Vale line in recent years. I may owe them the beginnings of an apology. Since the timetable was changed earlier this year reliability has been, whisper it, good (at least on the most important college/commuter time runs). On only one day has the service completely collapsed in the kind of nonsense that occurred before the service was suspended for the pandemic.

Yes, the service is being run in defined "blocks" of 2 out and back services 3 or 4 times a day and yes, that cant be putting a lot of stress on the units but they have been chugging well and might be becoming useful little units! Time keeping has also been, generally, good with only a couple of long delays. Obviously we have the usual low level time loss with these units/operation style but beyond that things have been good.

OBVIOUSLY the timetable still doesn't work and delivers you into Bletchley just as a northbound train pulls out but at least the unit seems to be working.

Whisper it quietly but things MIGHT ( just might ) have improved. Bet I am walking home tonight now I have said that!

Wait until we get some weather well into the 20s before saying that! I'm told it's the cooling that's the main Achilles heel.

I used it on Saturday and it picked up 15 minutes' delay at Kempston Hardwick towards Bedford on the outbound (which I wasn't on), and didn't recover that until quite a bit later. I originally suspected that it was maybe the level crossing there which continues to cause issues, but fitters then boarded at Bletchley so maybe it was the unit.

230004 did have some issues Saturday...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wait until we get some weather well into the 20s before saying that! I'm told it's the cooling that's the main Achilles heel

Yep, that's my observation. Presumably the Isle of Wight ones are reliable, with not having diesels to overheat.

When they overheat they start losing engines - having 4 they still run, but once you're down to 2 or even 1 they make a 101 power-trailer set look sprightly.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Good news though It's a real shame about the reliability of the MV 230s, hope things will improve further in the coming months. Their issues worried me before the 484s' debut on the Island line (even with the 484s' own issues) though the 484s seem to be more reliable on the IL apart from some unit failures. Not perfect but the 484s' reliability would be essential as these likely will remain in service much longer than the MV 230s due to the upcoming EWR upgrade.

Are the TfW 230s still not in service yet, perhaps plagued with similar issues?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good news though It's a real shame about the reliability of the MV 230s, hope things will improve further in the coming months. Their issues worried me before the 484s' debut on the Island line (even with the 484s' own issues) though the 484s seem to be more reliable on the IL apart from some unit failures. Not perfect but the 484s' reliability would be essential as these likely will remain in service much longer than the MV 230s due to the upcoming EWR upgrade.

Indeed, the IoW ones are probably set in for 40-50 years now, whereas the MV ones were only ever designed for about 10 years, by which time EWR was to be built and electrified (stop laughing at the back)

 

[mmh]

Yep, that's my observation. Presumably the Isle of Wight ones are reliable, with not having diesels to overheat.

Perfectly possible for an electric motor to overheat though. Perhaps that could be this year's Vivarail "oops" problem.

 

[wobman]

Good news though It's a real shame about the reliability of the MV 230s, hope things will improve further in the coming months. Their issues worried me before the 484s' debut on the Island line (even with the 484s' own issues) though the 484s seem to be more reliable on the IL apart from some unit failures. Not perfect but the 484s' reliability would be essential as these likely will remain in service much longer than the MV 230s due to the upcoming EWR upgrade.

Are the TfW 230s still not in service yet, perhaps plagued with similar issues?

Tfw units are planned for May TT introduction

 

[MML]

But if the MV 230s are successfully introduced, why are so many services still operated by rail replacement buses?
Weekdays about 50% of services seem to be bus.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if the MV 230s are successfully introduced, why are so many services still operated by rail replacement buses?
Weekdays about 50% of services seem to be bus.

Staffing shortages due to COVID absence. It's affected St Albans too - as the quietest parts of WMT they've always been low priority.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I think the time for an apology is some way off.

Let the units operate a full timetable, for a 12 month period, and see how many delay minutes are attributable to the units and see how many incidents occur requiring a unit swap but which don't incur delay minutes ie deftly swapped at Bletchley between trips. Then remember that only 66% availability is required on any given day (2 out of 3 dedicated units). Then compare that performance with similar units with much lower spare capacity - and I don't mean the People's Parry Mover on the Stourbridge branch (50% availability required).

I hope all the naysayers are proved wrong. I'll have custard with mine thanks (slice of humble pie).

 

[DarloRich]

I sympathise for the users of the line in high summer though. They’re not fun in the heat.

I know - VERY warm inside

Wait until we get some weather well into the 20s before saying that! I'm told it's the cooling that's the main Achilles heel.

I know - well aware of the issues as a daily user. I just wanted to note that recently reliability has been good. Admittedly the weather is cool and the service demand low but the service has been better than many times past.

But if the MV 230s are successfully introduced, why are so many services still operated by rail replacement buses?
Weekdays about 50% of services seem to be bus.

There is a hang over of staff shortages and COVID. Being a rural branch line the impact of cuts here is much less than the main line to London. TBH I would rather the main line trains ran than out branch, as long as SOME service is offered.

I think the time for an apology is some way off.

Let the units operate a full timetable, for a 12 month period, and see how many delay minutes are attributable to the units and see how many incidents occur requiring a unit swap but which don't incur delay minutes ie deftly swapped at Bletchley between trips. Then remember that only 66% availability is required on any given day (2 out of 3 dedicated units). Then compare that performance with similar units with much lower spare capacity - and I don't mean the People's Parry Mover on the Stourbridge branch (50% availability required).

I hope all the naysayers are proved wrong. I'll have custard with mine thanks (slice of humble pie).

I am the poor chugger you has to use these trains. I know how bad they are. I simply want to point out there are, potentially, green shoots of reliability

 

[STINT47]

I took my first ride on a 230 today between Bedford and Bletchley and was pleasantly surprised by the unit. I found it to be comfortable, not to loud and thought that it was well suited to rural branch line use. Certainly, as a stop gap before electrification and to release some diesel units they appear to be a good solution and it beat the 153 I has when I last used this route.


It's a shame to learn that they are not very reliable. Lets hope that they can get on top of the issues as I believe they could be a low cost winner for this line and other rural branches.

Incidentaly unreliable units are not unique to the 230. The EMR 360 that got me to Bedford keep breaking and as for the new units at the other end of the line I'm still waiting for the west midlands new fleet.

 

[Spartacus]

Are the TfW 230s still not in service yet, perhaps plagued with similar issues?

Hopefully they'll have learnt lessons from the WMT ones and fitted a better cooler group, but then being hybrid's they're probably heavier, so even if they have it might not be enough, previous experience has hardly filled me with confidence.

Incidentally unreliable units are not unique to the 230. The EMR 360 that got me to Bedford keep breaking and as for the new units at the other end of the line I'm still waiting for the west midlands new fleet.

The 360s aren't inherently unreliable though, they were putting in some great figures in East Anglia, it's only since they've come out of storage that they've been lousy.

 

[DarloRich]

Looks like i spoke to soon! This morning the services are very delayed. The first one was noted as being 60 minutes plus late!

I took my first ride on a 230 today between Bedford and Bletchley and was pleasantly surprised by the unit. I found it to be comfortable, not to loud and thought that it was well suited to rural branch line use. Certainly, as a stop gap before electrification and to release some diesel units they appear to be a good solution and it beat the 153 I has when I last used this route.


It's a shame to learn that they are not very reliable. Lets hope that they can get on top of the issues as I believe they could be a low cost winner for this line and other rural branches.

I have always said the interior of the 230's is a massive step up on the 150/153. It is a really good train to ride in and suits our line well. The problem is they conk out far too often. Sadly that unreliability has destroyed all the good will and positivity built up by the new trains. People have been driven away ( literally) because the trains just cant be relied upon.

 

[43096]

Looks like i spoke to soon! This morning the services are very delayed. The first one was noted as being 60 minutes plus late!

Although what was the reason for the delay?

 

[Spartacus]

Looks like i spoke to soon! This morning the services are very delayed. The first one was noted as being 60 minutes plus late!

Coded TH, so can't blame the 230 for that one, for a change

 

[DarloRich]

Coded TH

what is TH? staffing? I cant recall

 

[Spartacus]

what is TH? staffing? I cant recall

Guard, probably late.

 

[DarloRich]

Guard, probably late.

thanks - suspect a late call up after someone went U/S