Should preserved railways 1940s events go ahead this year?

[E759]

Ukraine is much bigger than any other war since WW2

Fact check: Korean War (1950-1953).

 

[reddragon]

Fact check: Korean War (1950-1953).

I don't agree with you.

Numerically maybe, threat & locality wise no.

 

[Skymonster]

I don't agree with you.

Numerically maybe, threat & locality wise no.

We’re getting into the ridiculous now if we’re using geography to define which wars were should consider and which we need not. The Korean War and the Vietnam War were both “large” wars, then there’s been the Iraq War, the Gulf War, the Falklands War and the Afghan War - several of which the UK was directly involved with. As far as I can recall, no heritage railway 1940s events were cancelled out of deference to any of those. Should World War Two / Battle of Britain airshows at locations such as Duxford, Headcorn and Cosby also be cancelled this year, along with numerous other re-enact or events across the UK? It would be ridiculous to do so. No, somehow the heritage railway movement has got caught up in some sort of woke-driven cancel culture idea, presumably out of concern that it’s events might upset a few sensitive luvvies who think normality should be put on hold because there’s yet another war somewhere else in the world.

 

[eldomtom2]

Personally I'd say that the "woke" response would probably be saying that the Ukraine War only gets so much attention because its victims are white...

 

[John Luxton]

No, somehow the heritage railway movement has got caught up in some sort of woke-driven cancel culture idea, presumably out of concern that it’s events might upset a few sensitive luvvies who think normality should be put on hold because there’s yet another war somewhere else in the world.

Well said. The HRA seems to be spiralling downwards into a virtue signalling organisation run by similar people who have infiltrated the likes of the National Trust. It has not just been the WWII events I have taken offence over but also utterances and guidelines during Covid but that is another issue.

I have only ever been to two WWII themed events it doesn't bother me one way or the other if they take place. However, some obviously enjoy them a lot and the military reenactment scene appears to be quite big in the UK.

Basically banning them just spoils the pleasure of others.

If you are offended stay away but leave others alone.

 

[WesternLancer]

No, somehow the heritage railway movement has got caught up in some sort of woke-driven cancel culture idea, presumably out of concern that it’s events might upset a few sensitive luvvies who think normality should be put on hold because there’s yet another war somewhere else in the world.

I think we can assume they reckon they might lose money at such events, and have opted for a commercially driven decision. As others are running events such as those you mention the relevant railways will be able to see if they made the wrong judgement call in financial terms.

As I have said, I think such events are worthwhile and have enjoyed them my self - but I do not own nor am a trustee of a preserved railway - it is up to them how they conduct their affairs/business/charity.

 

[Skymonster]

I think we can assume they reckon they might lose money at such events, and have opted for a commercially driven decision. As others are running events such as those you mention the relevant railways will be able to see if they made the wrong judgement call in financial terms.

As I have said, I think such events are worthwhile and have enjoyed them my self - but I do not own nor am a trustee of a preserved railway - it is up to them how they conduct their affairs/business/charity.

I honestly don’t believe there would be many people in this country, regardless their sympathies regarding the current conflict, thinking “I’d like to go to the 1940s event at the XXX Railway but I won’t because of the war in Ukraine.” I doubt that there would even be many people who really thought that running a 1940s event would distasteful at present. No, to me it’s the railways, the trustees and the HRA seemingly being desperate to engage in virtue signalling and putting themselves before the interests of the businesses.

 

[stuu]

I honestly don’t believe there would be many people in this country, regardless their sympathies regarding the current conflict, thinking “I’d like to go to the 1940s event at the XXX Railway but I won’t because of the war in Ukraine.” I doubt that there would even be many people who really thought that running a 1940s event would distasteful at present. No, to me it’s the railways, the trustees and the HRA seemingly being desperate to engage in virtue signalling and putting themselves before the interests of the businesses.

I think you are wrong. People dressing up and playing at being at war whilst there are actual refugees arriving in the country and the threat of wider war really doesn't strike me as a good look. Similar to why films about plane crashes are removed from TV schedules after actual plane crashes. Commercial organisations are taking those decisions for commercial reasons, not because of some belief in "woke", whatever that means

 

[WesternLancer]

I honestly don’t believe there would be many people in this country, regardless their sympathies regarding the current conflict, thinking “I’d like to go to the 1940s event at the XXX Railway but I won’t because of the war in Ukraine.” I doubt that there would even be many people who really thought that running a 1940s event would distasteful at present. No, to me it’s the railways, the trustees and the HRA seemingly being desperate to engage in virtue signalling and putting themselves before the interests of the businesses.

I tend to think you may be incorrect. many of the takings from events and to railways in general are simply from the general public - as we would all accept, not enthusiasts of railways or indeed military history. The public can be fickle...

But obviously we have different views and the tricky job of the people running the railway is they have to make a judgement call between such views.

People who want to keep running 1940s events can do so - there would seem to be enough advocates of them on this forum to form a committee to put one on, after all..

 

[Bertie the bus]

I think you are wrong. People dressing up and playing at being at war whilst there are actual refugees arriving in the country and the threat of wider war really doesn't strike me as a good look. Similar to why films about plane crashes are removed from TV schedules after actual plane crashes. Commercial organisations are taking those decisions for commercial reasons, not because of some belief in "woke", whatever that means

Looking at the schedules for Freeview channels you could pretty much watch programmes about WWII 24 hours per day / 7 days per week. Nobody appears to have made any changes to their programming at all.

 

[John Luxton]

I think you are wrong. People dressing up and playing at being at war whilst there are actual refugees arriving in the country and the threat of wider war really doesn't strike me as a good look. Similar to why films about plane crashes are removed from TV schedules after actual plane crashes. Commercial organisations are taking those decisions for commercial reasons, not because of some belief in "woke", whatever that means

Just did a bit of googling and there appears to be quite a few WWI and WWII renactments going on still this year.

This site appears to cover locations in UK and USA: https://www.militarytrader.com/calendars/reenactments-living-history-events-calendar

Looking beyond just the railways there are many people who put a lot of effort into preserving and displaying military vehicles are we going to see these banned from historic vehicle / traction engine rallies because of their wartime links.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Mar 2022 ==

Looking at the schedules for Freeview channels you could pretty much watch programmes about WWII 24 hours per day / 7 days per week. Nobody appears to have made any changes to their programming at all.

Good point. Yes lots of World War II material on the box.

 

[stuu]

Looking at the schedules for Freeview channels you could pretty much watch programmes about WWII 24 hours per day / 7 days per week. Nobody appears to have made any changes to their programming at all.

That is very selective reading of what I wrote. If a plane were to crash today, mainstream broadcasters would not show a film about plane crashes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Mar 2022 ==

Just did a bit of googling and there appears to be quite a few WWI and WWII renactments going on still this year.

This site appears to cover locations in UK and USA: https://www.militarytrader.com/calendars/reenactments-living-history-events-calendar

Looking beyond just the railways there are many people who put a lot of effort into preserving and displaying military vehicles are we going to see these banned from historic vehicle / traction engine rallies because of their wartime links.

Literally no one has banned any of these events. No one. Don't make things up. Some organisations have, of their own free will, decided not to run them, that is all

 

[Bertie the bus]

That is very selective reading of what I wrote. If a plane were to crash today, mainstream broadcasters would not show a film about plane crashes

It isn't selective reading at all because we are not talking about a plane crash. We are talking about a war and nobody seems to be removing any programmes about wars or WWII. In fact, if anybody would be expected to do such a thing it is the BBC but they still had an episode of Dad's Army on last night. So how is that alright but people in real life having a dress up not alright?

 

[Trainfan344]

I can't believe the ignorance of some members. Actually I can. Some people are very insensitive towards others, apparently showing empathy and compassion to those in need is "Woke".

Some of the posters on here are an embarrassment. According to them I think we should go around shouting the N word at people of a certain race, buy only British products. I wonder if they sit at home in Union Jack clothing with Rule Britannia on repeat.

Forbid any railways feel with the current global situation with one of the largest powers in the world having launched a full scale invasion of another country that they might not want to host an event that celebrates war. Let alone the fact that the HRA - A body which provides advice to most heritage railways - has decided to advise 1940s events don't go ahead for the time being.

The fact that is that the majority posters who are against the cancellation seen to be taking everything to the extreme to try and push cancel culture as they put it.

For them to behave like this on a public forum is quite frankly an embarrassment.

 

[Skymonster]

I can't believe the ignorance of some members. Actually I can. Some people are very insensitive towards others, apparently showing empathy and compassion to those in need is "Woke".

Jeez… There‘s a huge distance between “empathy and compassion”, and arbitrarily cancelling events here in the UK in now way addresses that gap.

Forbid any railways feel with the current global situation with one of the largest powers in the world having launched a full scale invasion of another country that they might not want to host an event that celebrates war.

The objective is commemorate, not celebrate. And that means we should still remember the sacrifices others made in the past for us today, and not dismiss what happenEd in the past based on what is happening now.

The fact that is that the majority posters who are against the cancellation seen to be taking everything to the extreme to try and push cancel culture as they put it. For them to behave like this on a public forum is quite frankly an embarrassment.

You’re right about embarrassment… Those who promote cancellation seem intent on denying what occurred decades ago. There‘s plenty of room to be empathetic of the current situation whilst acknowledging what happened in the past, but some folk seem intent on discarding everything that has gone before based on what’s happening on now. That‘s tragic.

According to them I think we should go around shouting the N word at people of a certain race, buy only British products. I wonder if they sit at home in Union Jack clothing with Rule Britannia…

Not at all, BUT it is disgraceful that the UK is focusing on and spending hugely on events overseas when there are thousands (actually almost certainly more) of disadvantaged here in theUK who can’t make ends meet, don’t have a roof over their heads, don’t know whether they will be able to feed themselves in the coming weeks. I am ashamed of the UK that we are seemingly prioritising those affected by this war, which is none or our business, ahead of the really needy here.

 

[WesternLancer]

. I am ashamed of the UK that we are seemingly prioritising those affected by this war, which is none or our business, ahead of the really needy here.

You make some fair points in your post, but a bit ironic to think that "it's none of our business" was a line taken by some re:
Sarajevo 1914
Austria 1938
Czechoslovakia 1938
etc

almost a classic isolationist trope - see also USA in the run up to Pearl Harbour

I guess the value of 1940s events is to teach us that all these things, are, rightly or wrongly - 'our business', and became so rather more obviously in September 1939

And to bring it up to date - the reason, IMHO, Ukraine 2022 is 'our business' is because the UK is a key player in NATO. And NATO borders Ukraine.

And for people uninterested in even that - they could try saying 'none of our business' when they fill up with petrol or turn their central heating on.....

On the related matter I really don't want to sound rude at all - but whilst it is certainly tough for low income people to make ends meet in the current UK financial situations, compare that with what our grandparents would have said about being bombed out...since that is what many people seeking our help from Ukraine have had happen to them. I can recall what my grandparents said about that! They did not compare it to the increased price of petrol, put it that way.

 

[stuu]

You’re right about embarrassment… Those who promote cancellation seem intent on denying what occurred decades ago. There‘s plenty of room to be empathetic of the current situation whilst acknowledging what happened in the past, but some folk seem intent on discarding everything that has gone before based on what’s happening on now. That‘s tragic.


Not at all, BUT it is disgraceful that the UK is focusing on and spending hugely on events overseas when there are thousands (actually almost certainly more) of disadvantaged here in theUK who can’t make ends meet, don’t have a roof over their heads, don’t know whether they will be able to feed themselves in the coming weeks. I am ashamed of the UK that we are seemingly prioritising those affected by this war, which is none or our business, ahead of the really needy here.

There's some huge leaps of logic in your statement. At what point has anyone suggested discarding what happened in the past? Give an example please? Having empathy with what happens involves also recognising that some events aren't appropriate, or might be badly received at the moment, that is all.

The point of our support and involvement is that without being absolutely firm against Russia now we stop, hopefully, further aggression that would be far more costly to everyone in the future. That's a sensible investment, surely?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Looking at the schedules for Freeview channels you could pretty much watch programmes about WWII 24 hours per day / 7 days per week. Nobody appears to have made any changes to their programming at all.

Yes. There is an awful lot covering WWII on Freeview. I am rarely short of something to watch.

Just did a bit of googling and there appears to be quite a few WWI and WWII renactments going on still this year.

This site appears to cover locations in UK and USA: https://www.militarytrader.com/calendars/reenactments-living-history-events-calendar

Looking beyond just the railways there are many people who put a lot of effort into preserving and displaying military vehicles are we going to see these banned from historic vehicle / traction engine rallies because of their wartime links.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Mar 2022 ==


Good point. Yes lots of World War II material on the box.

Looks like the preserved railways have gone their own way on this ?. Has the HRA got this wrong ?.

That is very selective reading of what I wrote. If a plane were to crash today, mainstream broadcasters would not show a film about plane crashes

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Mar 2022 ==


Literally no one has banned any of these events. No one. Don't make things up. Some organisations have, of their own free will, decided not to run them, that is all

Well I saw a documentary (Yesterday or maybe Friday) about the Quantas flight that had an engine blow up. And how hard the plane was to fly. There was that Crash of an Airbus in China onlt last week.

I can't believe the ignorance of some members. Actually I can. Some people are very insensitive towards others, apparently showing empathy and compassion to those in need is "Woke".

Some of the posters on here are an embarrassment. According to them I think we should go around shouting the N word at people of a certain race, buy only British products. I wonder if they sit at home in Union Jack clothing with Rule Britannia on repeat.

Forbid any railways feel with the current global situation with one of the largest powers in the world having launched a full scale invasion of another country that they might not want to host an event that celebrates war. Let alone the fact that the HRA - A body which provides advice to most heritage railways - has decided to advise 1940s events don't go ahead for the time being.

The fact that is that the majority posters who are against the cancellation seen to be taking everything to the extreme to try and push cancel culture as they put it.

For them to behave like this on a public forum is quite frankly an embarrassment.

I would say you are over-reacting. And that is arguably what has happened with these cancellations.

To suggest that people are being ignorant is crude. The risk is that by ignoring the past we make sure people are ignorant. You seem to want to just sweep the past under the carpet and lose the lessons we should learn.

I would actually think the WWII events now should be more appropriate than usual. They will remind many that a conflict in Europe could happen again and very much affect us and so we should not ignore it.

My bold - Has the HRA got this wrong ?.

Jeez… There‘s a huge distance between “empathy and compassion”, and arbitrarily cancelling events here in the UK in now way addresses that gap.


The objective is commemorate, not celebrate. And that means we should still remember the sacrifices others made in the past for us today, and not dismiss what happenEd in the past based on what is happening now.


You’re right about embarrassment… Those who promote cancellation seem intent on denying what occurred decades ago. There‘s plenty of room to be empathetic of the current situation whilst acknowledging what happened in the past, but some folk seem intent on discarding everything that has gone before based on what’s happening on now. That‘s tragic.


Not at all, BUT it is disgraceful that the UK is focusing on and spending hugely on events overseas when there are thousands (actually almost certainly more) of disadvantaged here in theUK who can’t make ends meet, don’t have a roof over their heads, don’t know whether they will be able to feed themselves in the coming weeks. I am ashamed of the UK that we are seemingly prioritising those affected by this war, which is none or our business, ahead of the really needy here.

I agree. It is like we are all supposed to hide, deny the past and apologise for being interested.

You make some fair points in your post, but a bit ironic to think that "it's none of our business" was a line taken by some re:
Sarajevo 1914
Austria 1938
Czechoslovakia 1938
etc

almost a classic isolationist trope - see also USA in the run up to Pearl Harbour

I guess the value of 1940s events is to teach us that all these things, are, rightly or wrongly - 'our business', and became so rather more obviously in September 1939

And to bring it up to date - the reason, IMHO, Ukraine 2022 is 'our business' is because the UK is a key player in NATO. And NATO borders Ukraine.

And for people uninterested in even that - they could try saying 'none of our business' when they fill up with petrol or turn their central heating on.....

On the related matter I really don't want to sound rude at all - but whilst it is certainly tough for low income people to make ends meet in the current UK financial situations, compare that with what our grandparents would have said about being bombed out...since that is what many people seeking our help from Ukraine have had happen to them. I can recall what my grandparents said about that! They did not compare it to the increased price of petrol, put it that way.

My bold - And yes it is wrong to deny that past. The past has lessons in it.

I would add that these cancelled events would have been an excellent way to raise money for Ukraine.

 

[headshot119]

Is anyone able to point me towards the supposed advice that the HRA have issued on this? I can't see any guidance notes or documents on there website, nor have I had anything in an email from them.

 

[John Luxton]

Is anyone able to point me towards the supposed advice that the HRA have issued on this? I can't see any guidance notes or documents on there website, nor have I had anything in an email from them.

This is what ITV reported: https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2...events-scrapped-following-invasion-of-ukraine

"Heritage railways in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire have cancelled popular wartime-themed events to avoid "unintended anguish" amid the war Ukraine.

It comes after the Heritage Railway Association (HRA) issued advice to its members to call off military events in 2022 for as long as the conflict continues, and to consider whether it is appropriate to hold them in future years.

Lincolnshire Wolds Railway announced on Facebook that its 1940s Wartime Weekend –normally attended by thousands of people – will not go ahead in September.

The post said the event may cause "unintended anguish to visitors of Ukrainian heritage" and that the railway had considered advice by the HRA.


A spokesperson said: "We hope that, although some will be disappointed, that you understand the decision made and that we all send love and wishes to everyone suffering, that we all stand together to express our support to Ukraine"

Some followers were unhappy with the decision, with James Allen posting: "You didn't cancel for other wars. All those lives lost for our freedom and it is being thrown away because of poor, weak decision-making."

Others were supportive, with Neil Parnham commenting: "A good, respectful, well thought out decision. It could be a Ukrainian fundraiser or awareness weekend?"

North Yorkshire Moors Railway has also cancelled its Railway in Wartime event, scheduled for October, instead announcing it will donate all ticket sale proceeds to the British Red Cross’s Ukraine Crisis Appeal.


Chief executive officer Chris Price said: "We did not think it was right to have a wartime-themed event in the calendar, when the people of Ukraine are facing such a tense, dangerous, and distressing time. Ongoing violence is causing people to flee their homes and become separated from their families.

"We appreciate there will be a lot of disappointed people, but we hope everyone understands our decision, and that as many people as possible will still use the railway on that weekend, thus helping to raise thousands of pounds for the Ukraine appeal."

The decisions follow guidance issued from the Heritage Railway Association, which discussed the war in Ukraine at its board meeting earlier in the month.

It is advising its members to cancel military re-enactment and "war weekend" style events in 2022.

Heritage Railway Association Chief Executive, Steve Oates, said: “A small number of members had already taken unilateral decisions that they were uneasy about military re-enactment style events in the light of the war in Ukraine. The HRA also received requests for advice from railways with concerns that such an event could cause unintended anguish to visitors of Ukrainian heritage."

“In light of the huge suffering being seen in Ukraine, we fully support those member railways that have decided to alter or rearrange their events. And we felt that it was only right that our advice to members should be updated to reflect the current situation.

"Our heritage railways are powerful educational tools for a number of eras in British history and fundamentally that will not change. But nobody would want to cause unintended anguish at a time like this."

 

[headshot119]

This is what ITV reported: https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2...events-scrapped-following-invasion-of-ukraine

"Heritage railways in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire have cancelled popular wartime-themed events to avoid "unintended anguish" amid the war Ukraine.

It comes after the Heritage Railway Association (HRA) issued advice to its members to call off military events in 2022 for as long as the conflict continues, and to consider whether it is appropriate to hold them in future years.

Lincolnshire Wolds Railway announced on Facebook that its 1940s Wartime Weekend –normally attended by thousands of people – will not go ahead in September.

The post said the event may cause "unintended anguish to visitors of Ukrainian heritage" and that the railway had considered advice by the HRA.


A spokesperson said: "We hope that, although some will be disappointed, that you understand the decision made and that we all send love and wishes to everyone suffering, that we all stand together to express our support to Ukraine"

Some followers were unhappy with the decision, with James Allen posting: "You didn't cancel for other wars. All those lives lost for our freedom and it is being thrown away because of poor, weak decision-making."

Others were supportive, with Neil Parnham commenting: "A good, respectful, well thought out decision. It could be a Ukrainian fundraiser or awareness weekend?"

North Yorkshire Moors Railway has also cancelled its Railway in Wartime event, scheduled for October, instead announcing it will donate all ticket sale proceeds to the British Red Cross’s Ukraine Crisis Appeal.


Chief executive officer Chris Price said: "We did not think it was right to have a wartime-themed event in the calendar, when the people of Ukraine are facing such a tense, dangerous, and distressing time. Ongoing violence is causing people to flee their homes and become separated from their families.

"We appreciate there will be a lot of disappointed people, but we hope everyone understands our decision, and that as many people as possible will still use the railway on that weekend, thus helping to raise thousands of pounds for the Ukraine appeal."

The decisions follow guidance issued from the Heritage Railway Association, which discussed the war in Ukraine at its board meeting earlier in the month.

It is advising its members to cancel military re-enactment and "war weekend" style events in 2022.

Heritage Railway Association Chief Executive, Steve Oates, said: “A small number of members had already taken unilateral decisions that they were uneasy about military re-enactment style events in the light of the war in Ukraine. The HRA also received requests for advice from railways with concerns that such an event could cause unintended anguish to visitors of Ukrainian heritage."

“In light of the huge suffering being seen in Ukraine, we fully support those member railways that have decided to alter or rearrange their events. And we felt that it was only right that our advice to members should be updated to reflect the current situation.

"Our heritage railways are powerful educational tools for a number of eras in British history and fundamentally that will not change. But nobody would want to cause unintended anguish at a time like this."

Thanks John I'd seen a couple of news articles like this, however I still can't find any formal guidance on the HRA website about this, nor via email which I normally get from them. Even in that article the HRA spokesman seems a bit fluffy on whether they've issued guidance or not. I do wonder if it was a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, one or two high profile lines cancelled events, other lines have then panicked and asked the HRA for advice, and the advice provided has been that some high profile lines have already deemed events to be inappropriate.

Guidance notes etc are usually published here https://www.hra.uk.com/guidance-notes

 

[WesternLancer]

Is anyone able to point me towards the supposed advice that the HRA have issued on this? I can't see any guidance notes or documents on there website, nor have I had anything in an email from them.

Post #172 above linked to this article

Heritage railways show solidarity with counterparts in Ukraine

Britain’s heritage rail sector is supporting their counterparts in Ukraine as they try to protect their country’s railway heritage.

www.railadvent.co.uk

Which is similar to John L's ITV link extract.

It may be that HRA have issued advice to those who have sought it (rather than in a circular e-mail)?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Mar 2022 ==

I do wonder if it was a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, one or two high profile lines cancelled events, other lines have then panicked and asked the HRA for advice, and the advice provided has been that some high profile lines have already deemed events to be inappropriate.

I suspect that is exactly what happened!

That well known hotbed of woke activism in the Lincs Wolds... As for the NYMR - well they know Fylingdales will always be on a target list!

 

[John Luxton]

I think this thread brought the question of WWII themed events up a while before any announcement was made from any heritage railway or HRA. I wonder if it was this thread that possibly could have created the issue as it may well have given people ideas? - Just a thought.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think this thread brought the question of WWII themed events up a while before any announcement was made from any heritage railway or HRA. I wonder if it was this thread that possibly could have created the issue as it may well have given people ideas? - Just a thought.

Who knows, tho I'd be tempted to think on the basis of contribs to this thread the takeaway idea might be a 40s style war time event once a month would be what was desired

 

[43066]

I think there's merit to the arguments about them this year, because the war in Ukraine is causing different reactions to other wars in other places.

Thanks for an interesting post.

I think this point is key. Why is the Ukraine war causing such a different reaction? I think the answer might well be considered unsavoury by many, and there’s a danger the charitable trusts are tacitly endorsing this position.

I’ll ask again, who exactly is it these organisations are so afraid of offending? I do echo the sentiments above that the increasingly political behaviour of many charities (the National Trust especially) is perhaps rubbing off on those lower down the food chain.

Fact check: Korean War (1950-1953).

The Vietnam war is another rather obvious example!

Ukraine is much bigger than any other war since WW2, anyone who doesn't think this is totally out of touch with reality.

By what measure? I think your own grasp of history is somewhat lacking here.

I still don’t see the attraction of war events at all. I’m neither for or against, but my dad served in RAF Bomber Command during WW2 and it was one of the most harrowing, frightening and awful times of his life, possibly only surpassed when he later took part in the Berlin Airlift and saw first-hand on the ground the awful destruction and abject suffering the allied bombing, in which he was involved, had caused.

My maternal grandparents both saw active service in WW2, granddad was a fighter pilot, grandma a fire watcher in London during the blitz. Both would have laughed at the idea of woke students (for example) being offended by WW2 themed events nearly eighty years after the fact. You’ll find their generational was rather more stoical than ours and perhaps that’s something we have lost in the world of social media, where everyone lives in perpetual fear of causing some imagined group offence.

Well said. The HRA seems to be spiralling downwards into a virtue signalling organisation run by similar people who have infiltrated the likes of the National Trust. It has not just been the WWII events I have taken offence over but also utterances and guidelines during Covid but that is another issue.

Absolutely. This clearly comes from exactly the same place as much of the ludicrous nonsense we’ve seen in relation to Covid. The left have clearly developed a taste for authoritarianism over the past couple of years…

I guess the value of 1940s events is to teach us that all these things, are, rightly or wrongly - 'our business', and became so rather more obviously in September 1939

I’m glad you agree with that. I’d argue that’s all the more reason not to cancel them!

I would add that these cancelled events would have been an excellent way to raise money for Ukraine.

That’s biggest irony of the whole discussion!

It comes after the Heritage Railway Association (HRA) issued advice to its members to call off military events in 2022 for as long as the conflict continues, and to consider whether it is appropriate to hold them in future years.

Lincolnshire Wolds Railway announced on Facebook that its 1940s Wartime Weekend –normally attended by thousands of people – will not go ahead in September.

The post said the event may cause "unintended anguish to visitors of Ukrainian heritage" and that the railway had considered advice by the HRA.

Honestly, what an absolute load of rubbish - just as many of us suspected. The part about potentially not repeating them in future years is rather sinister, and to me demonstrates very clearly that the Ukrainian situation is being used as an excuse to advance a political agenda.

Sadly it seems some heritage railway trustees have unthinkingly gone along with this puerile nonsense. I was very glad to hear earlier that the railway my parents volunteer at is still going ahead with theirs. Apparently it’s promising to be very popular (as it is every year) and will bring in some much needed cash after a difficult couple of years.

 

[Trainfan344]

I've never said ignore history etc. It's only those who are opposed to the idea of cancelling them that accuse us of ignoring history.

 

[Spamcan81]

I rarely attend these events. Nothing against them but tend to avoid the crowds attracted on such occasions. I'm against the cancel culture behind the cancellation of some this year so I will make a point of attending some by way of protest. IMO it is quite ridiculous to use the tragic events in Ukraine as a reason to cancel when other equally tragic wars have not stopped similar events going ahead.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks John I'd seen a couple of news articles like this, however I still can't find any formal guidance on the HRA website about this, nor via email which I normally get from them. Even in that article the HRA spokesman seems a bit fluffy on whether they've issued guidance or not. I do wonder if it was a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, one or two high profile lines cancelled events, other lines have then panicked and asked the HRA for advice, and the advice provided has been that some high profile lines have already deemed events to be inappropriate.

Guidance notes etc are usually published here https://www.hra.uk.com/guidance-notes

It perhaps all started as a storm in a tea cup ?.

I still think this is an example of no one being prepared to argue against a position that was put forward in the name of political correctness. I mean no one dares to question something for fear of being pointed at and accused of being insensitive. The King is wearing no clothes.

I think it is just as likely that someone who never liked the WWII events (I don't usually go to them myself) has used Ukraine as an excuse to push their agenda. As others have said though - why all of a sudden Ukraine makes things different. I do find it a bit worrying that the invasion of Ukraine by Russia is very similar to the beginnings of WWII and so a very important time to remember. Who knows perhaps the HRA has been infiltrated by Russia - I say this tongue in cheek but then I wonder....

 

[Ribbleman]

Given the doubts expressed as to the wisdom of proceeding with 1940s events and bearing in mind that the reason for holding them in the first place is to raise funds for the various railways, I would have thought that the obvious alternative is to hold 1950s, 1960s or even 1970s themed weekends. There is no shortage of musicians, preserved vehicles and people who like to dress in the fashions of the periods. Obviously, there are more people alive who remember those decades. Furthermore, Mk.I rolling stock and BR green diesels can be employed rather more authentically.

 

[Mike Machin]

Completely agree, 50s, 60s, 70s - plenty of lovely classic cars from that period, great music, interesting fashions and trends - probably the high point for railway enthusiasm and spotting.

Take the 1960s for example, The Beatles/Stones, lovely Morris Minors, MGs, e-types and Minis - cars and skirts! Mods and their Lambrettas, Dansette record players, The ‘66 World Cup, and most railways have exactly the right stock and locomotives to run properly authentic trains for the period - unlike the weird juxtaposition of MK1 stock and BR liveries with 1940s artefacts at WW2 events.

What’s not to like?