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Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

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SSmith2009

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Were there any routes other than the Chester to Wrexham service that had more leg room?
the original Leicester Sapphire buses (routes 31/31A) had extra leg room with normal seating

Despite having newer sapphire buses in 2017 they gone from two every 15 mins to one unreliable circular service supposed to be every 15 mins with any old bus
 
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Andy Pacer

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the original Leicester Sapphire buses (routes 31/31A) had extra leg room with normal seating
I don't think they were down seated when they were refurbished for Sapphire though?

All of the 2006 batch of DDs for Leicester (including the DB250s) had more legroom upstairs, some still have the "Comfort Zone" vinyls on the stairs.

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Reading buses seem to do well with branding for the Greenline 702/703, even though its used under licence from Arriva.

Arriva were going to introduce a new Greenline (725 ??) From London to Stansted, but then Covid stopped it being launched (although not sure where the buses were being garaged?)
I think it was going to be a 720.

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Think the new Pulsars for the 7 Darlington to Durham were slightly lower capacity but I think that was it. I don't know how/if leg room was ever really marketed.
That one does ring a bell actually so you're probably right. Being buses new for the route its probably more likely.

There are some Sapphire E200MMCs (and possibly Streetlites) that have single seats on the offside, but I wouldn't think that would increase legroom, just reduce capacity for whatever reason.
 
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darloscott

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I don't think they were down seated when they were refurbished for Sapphire though?

All of the 2006 batch of DDs for Leicester (including the DB250s) had more legroom upstairs, some still have the "Comfort Zone" vinyls on the stairs.

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I think it was going to be a 720.

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That one does ring a bell actually so you're probably right. Being buses new for the route its probably more likely.

There are some Sapphire E200MMCs (and possibly Streetlites) that have single seats on the offside, but I wouldn't think that would increase legroom, just reduce capacity for whatever reason.
The Pulsars for the 7 had exactly that, single seats on the nearside for the first two or three rows reducing seating capacity.
 

overthewater

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That two company after Stagecoach, yet it seems Arriva is still waiting to be asked to come on to the dance floor. Why is no one after Arriva? Some of its areas are not bad, with a bit of trimming here and there you could get a decent network. What is Stopping anyone going after Arriva?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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That two company after Stagecoach, yet it seems Arriva is still waiting to be asked to come on to the dance floor. Why is no one after Arriva? Some of its areas are not bad, with a bit of trimming here and there you could get a decent network. What is Stopping anyone going after Arriva?
Because Deutsche Bahn don't know what they wish to do. In parts of Arriva, there are some large potential liabilities so that it depresses the sale price and it doesn't reflect the value they have on Arriva.

Carlyle were in talks to purchase it but then DB walked away whilst they evaluated their options. DB were also looking at floating it via an IPO.
 

tomuk

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Arriva have notified a number of reductions in Shropshire the council have stepped in to fund some of them until the autumn or news on their Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP)/

Oswestry Town Circular withdrawn
64 Shrewsbury to Hanley to 2 hourly
Various Shrewsbury Town services withdrawn.

Shropshire Council has stepped in to temporarily save a number of bus services that Arriva was planning to end or alter from 24 April [2022].

Arriva approached the council with a number of both commercial and subsidised services that they wanted to amend or withdraw from operating due to a fall in the number of fare-paying passengers, which they say is a result of the impact of the pandemic on bus travel.

They also say that the ongoing financial support from the Department for Transport doesn’t fully cover the cost of recovery from the pandemic.

In addition there is still no news from the Government on Shropshire Council’s bid for £98 million to transform bus services across Shropshire – with all councils that applied still waiting for a decision.

https://newsroom.shropshire.gov.uk/2022/03/council-steps-in-to-save-under-threat-bus-services/
https://newsroom.shropshire.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/Changes-to-Arriva-bus-services-2.pdf
 

Surreyman

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Because Deutsche Bahn don't know what they wish to do. In parts of Arriva, there are some large potential liabilities so that it depresses the sale price and it doesn't reflect the value they have on Arriva.
"large potential liabilities" - care to expand?
 

RELL6L

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There are changes all across the Southern regions of Arriva from April, virtually all cuts and withdrawals. Some are on the website but others are not.

Kent, reductions in 6,7,11,71,281, 477, complete withdrawal of the 155 and 455. The is a good scenic hourly route from Maidstone to Chatham via Aylesford, hopefully something will replace it.

Watford & Hemel, reductions in 2/3, 500, withdrawal of 300, big changes to 8,10,20,320,321,521 with a particularly severe reduction in services north from Watford. The main drag up past Garston Garage (as was) will now just have the 321 every 20 minutes, the 321 being extended to Rickmansworth / Maple Cross. Given that this is run entirely from Luton resilience and reliability has to be questionable.

High Wycombe reductions to 32, 800/850.

Aylesbury it appears the 280 will be every 15 minutes Oxford to Thame and every 30 minutes Thame to Aylesbury. That looks challenging - Aylesbury>Oxford>Thame>Oxford>Aylesbury just works in 5 hours but for this to work it must do Oxford>Thame>Oxford in 1hr 45mins which looks tight...

In the Midlands lots of changes around Leicester but they do not seem to be much by way of reductions, no sign of the Shrewsbury ones yet on Arriva's website. The Shropshire ones look quite severe with a number of other services, eg the 9 from Wolverhampton to Bridgnorth, only continuing for now until the summer.

Times are hard but Arriva do not help themselves!
 

SSmith2009

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In the Midlands lots of changes around Leicester but they do not seem to be much by way of reductions, no sign of the Shrewsbury ones yet on Arriva's website. The Shropshire ones look quite severe with a number of other services, eg the 9 from Wolverhampton to Bridgnorth, only continuing for now until the summer.

Times are hard but Arriva do not help themselves!

Expect more Leicester changes soon as St Margaret's bus station should be done by early summer which should see most arriva routes moving into it from the on street stops.
 

MedwayValiant

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complete withdrawal of the 155 and 455. The is a good scenic hourly route from Maidstone to Chatham via Aylesford, hopefully something will replace it.

There are two buses per hour on the 155. One is that scenic tour of the Medway Valley which you mention, the other is a short from Chatham to Borstal. The shorts, which are run out of Gillingham, are to continue. The long journeys are being withdrawn, except for two school journeys which will continue until July for contractual reasons.

Arriva is one of those companies which tries never to mention the existence of other bus companies, but it has said on Facebook that "KCC [Kent County Council] are working to find a replacement operator". Nu-Venture would have to be favourites, but time will tell.
 

Blindtraveler

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If I recall correctly there is a faster bus from Maidstone to aylesford anyway so so can see why bits of this happened
 

K219UHA

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Arriva have notified a number of reductions in Shropshire the council have stepped in to fund some of them until the autumn or news on their Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP)/

Oswestry Town Circular withdrawn
64 Shrewsbury to Hanley to 2 hourly
Various Shrewsbury Town services withdrawn.



https://newsroom.shropshire.gov.uk/2022/03/council-steps-in-to-save-under-threat-bus-services/
https://newsroom.shropshire.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/Changes-to-Arriva-bus-services-2.pdf
Locally the reaction is not good as expected for those with an interest, the majority of passengers have little or no clue for what is in store for them as yet it seems.

The 401 Oswestry Town Service to Aston Way is operational with journeys between 09:15 and 13:15, the remainder before and after are the 400 variation, funded by Shropshire Council and operated by Tanat Valley. Shall be see if Shropshire Council increase the 400 to fill the void via Tanat Valley.

The X4 been dropped is not great, meaning the people of Oswestry are stuck again with a hourly service off peak on the X5, a big comedown on a once busy service in the 70 days. It's been hacked away at too many times and later journeys cut away, expecting people to use the council funded 576 to Oswestry, the once loyal users from Bicton, Nesscliffe, West Felton and Whittington have had enough of it, I know of two people personally who moved jobs as they couldn't use the service any longer and they don't come back!
The 53 Oswestry to Ellesmere looks like it will be cut to pieces from the outline, 60 minute to 90 minute, presumably a PVR from 2 to 1 and presumably the later journeys dropped.

The September changes in in this area were really good, as soon as passengers start returning with restrictions been eased the typical, lets pull the plug after 6 months comes in.

Sad, sad times. The situation with DB and intentions with Arriva needs to be sorted now before it continues to decline. Arriva Midlands has declined far too much in the last 10 years with cuts and sales of depots.

I'm normally pro Arriva but hard to be positive seeing the managed decline. Should we blame the government alienating passengers from using public transport and causing a lasting downturn or Arriva no longer interested in rural Shropshire. No publicity any more, one thing that has declined in recent years.
 
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alex397

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Arriva is one of those companies which tries never to mention the existence of other bus companies, but it has said on Facebook that "KCC [Kent County Council] are working to find a replacement operator". Nu-Venture would have to be favourites, but time will tell.
Unsurprisingly for Arriva, they also haven’t mentioned the KCC contracted journeys on the 155, run by Nu-Venture on evenings and Sundays, which will continue to operate - rather pointlessly seeing as there will be no Mon-Sat daytime service
 

duncombec

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If I recall correctly there is a faster bus from Maidstone to aylesford anyway so so can see why bits of this happened
No, the 155 is the only bus from Maidstone to Aylesford village. There is a railway station... on the other side of the river!
 

jammy36

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If I recall correctly there is a faster bus from Maidstone to aylesford anyway so so can see why bits of this happened
Whilst there is a frequent service along London Road this is a long trek from the core of historic Aylesford (about a miles walk from the old bridge). Effectively Aylesford village and The Friars now goes unserved during the day, other than Farleigh Coaches school service (the same goes for the villages of Eccles, Burham and Wouldham).
 

markymark2000

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The X4 been dropped is not great, meaning the people of Oswestry are stuck again with a hourly service off peak on the X5, a big comedown on a once busy service in the 70 days. It's been hacked away at too many times and later journeys cut away, expecting people to use the council funded 576 to Oswestry, the once loyal users from Bicton, Nesscliffe, West Felton and Whittington have had enough of it, I know of two people personally who moved jobs as they couldn't use the service any longer and they don't come back!
The 53 Oswestry to Ellesmere looks like it will be cut to pieces from the outline, 60 minute to 90 minute, presumably a PVR from 2 to 1 and presumably the later journeys dropped.
I think they will cut out doing the town loop both ways and cut the layover in Ellesmere. That'd bring it to a 90 min round trip.

The September changes in in this area were really good, as soon as passengers start returning with restrictions bene eased the typical, lets pull the plug after 6 months comes in.
Bus companies want profits from day 1 (or not far after) else they cut it. That's the issue. Not the first and not the last. The X4 is dead though. Probably due to the fact it has no purpose and people got used to the poorer service and the X4s links had zero advertising. Shrewsbury Hospital bus stop is a shambles too which doesn't help.

Sad, sad times. The situation with DB and intentions with Arriva needs to be sorted now before it continues to decline. Arriva Midlands has declined far too much in the last 10 years with cuts and sales of depots.
Oswestry can't be doing well with this PVR cut. Got to be for the chopping block soon.
 

tomuk

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Locally the reaction is not good as expected for those with an interest, the majority of passengers have little or no clue for what is in store for them as yet it seems.
Yes their doesn't appear to be much publicity although the Shropshire Star reports that Shrewsbury Town council passed a motion condemning the cuts; I'm not sure that will make a difference if no money is forthcoming. Not good for their plans to pedestrianise the town centre if there are no buses. The most shocking is the removal of the 20 to Radbrook Green; this serves a large proportion of the south of the town. I remember the 20 from the days of Transit/Freight Rover bread vans, the Carlyle Ivecos and then the Darts.

BTW I remember the Dennis Falcons with the indicator buzzer
 
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station_road

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Reported already on the Derby/Nottingham thread that Arriva are cancelling two routes in Derby from 23 April (the 9 and F1) - the Traffic Comissioner data shows timetable changes submitted for all of their other routes from the same date, but no details yet. Hopefully only minor tweaks, but looks like Arriva nationally may be starting to make changes in anticipation of the extra government funding from the last two years winding down
 

M803UYA

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Sad, sad times. The situation with DB and intentions with Arriva needs to be sorted now before it continues to decline. Arriva Midlands has declined far too much in the last 10 years with cuts and sales of depots.
It's a nationwide disease Arriva is suffering, they're fairly poor almost everywhere they operate! Ageing fleet, reducing margins, unreliable services all around.

Shrewsbury Town Council can pass all the 'motions' they like - I've always felt 'motions' to be empty words of comfort which achieve nothing and be a substitute for action. Demanding the county council takes control of the bus services tends to have more teeth.

Interesting how the future is being pinned on the outcome of the Bus Back Better funding. To be honest all it does is kick the can down the road a few more months!
 

Deerfold

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Arriva are planning to run Sunday frequencies on many routes in West Yorkshire on Saturdays (which means some routes won't run).


https://citizen.wakefield.gov.uk/dismay-as-bus-operator-proposes-yet-another-cut-to-services/

Arriva are planning to introduce what they have described as temporary measures from the weekend of 24/25 April onwards; that would see its Saturday services running to the much less frequent Sunday timetable frequencies in the Wakefield district and in other areas in Yorkshire. For these latest changes Arriva have said that they are needing to put them in place because of ongoing difficulties in recruiting new drivers.
 

A0

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Shrewsbury Town Council can pass all the 'motions' they like - I've always felt 'motions' to be empty words of comfort which achieve nothing and be a substitute for action. Demanding the county council takes control of the bus services tends to have more teeth.

And won't necessaril improve the services. Shropshire is a rural county and bus services in rural areas are rarely profitable.

So all council control does is put the full cost on the council tax payers rather than just the subsidy.

If running Sunday services around Shrewsbury were attractive, then it's reasonable to assume that one of the more enterprising independents would have looked to fill the gap Arriva have left - the fact they haven't probably tells you all you need to know.
 

Typhoon

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Is Arriva going to operate the Fastrack AZ route?
My impression is that it will not, I have read somewhere that there is going to be a diversion of Fastrack A to serve the Amazon site (whether it would just be some journeys or all, I don't know). I caught a late running AZ about ten days ago, mid-afternoon (covering the eastern section); I was the only passenger throughout so for a journey approaching half an hour they* earn't whatever the going rate for my Old Man's Bus Pass is!

* - I have no idea what the funding arrangements are
 
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duncombec

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Is Arriva going to operate the Fastrack AZ route?

My impression is that it will not, I have read somewhere that there is going to be a diversion of Fastrack A to serve the Amazon site (whether it would just be some journeys or all, I don't know). I caught a late running AZ about ten days ago, mid-afternoon (covering the eastern section); I was the only passenger throughout so for a journey approaching half an hour they* earn't whatever the going rate for my Old Man's Bus Pass is!

* - I have no idea what the funding arrangements are
The AZ as we know it will be withdrawn, and Go-Coach operation will cease after 2nd April.

The Arriva operated A service will have a revised route in Temple Hill and the Amazon area, including a night service between Dartford and Greenhithe Station. There will be a small number of journeys each way at shift times on a route numbered AZ between Gravesend and Amazon.

The AZ seems to fit in that classic situation of being neither fish nor fowl. At Dartford, it serves the same stop as journeys towards Temple Hill, yet the other side of the road for other buses to Gravesend (on service B). The road at Dartford is exceptionally difficult to cross, so it's not as though you can change your mind if you see one or the other coming. At Gravesend, there was no space for it to stop at Garrick Street, as the B services were designed that one arrives almost as the previous one leaves. Although there is a shade more space with the new bus interchange, it's still nor great.

Then, because of funding (it is believed at least part funding comes from Amazon), the buses are painted in Amazon's 'squid ink' livery, and look like buses for Amazon workers... despite Go-Coach's best efforts, it doesn't really shout "this is a public service that anyone can use". It's also not that much faster between Dartford and Gravesend than the existing service, despite the limited stop nature - 46 minutes versus 56 minutes on the B - although it may feel like it, especially now the B meanders around Ingress Park.
 

alex397

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In addition, the AZ route doesn’t have much on-street publicity to encourage people that it wasn’t just for Amazon workers. For example, at Ebbsfleet International, it stops at an unmarked stop with no flag, shelter or timetable - hardly encouraging.
 

Typhoon

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It's also not that much faster between Dartford and Gravesend than the existing service, despite the limited stop nature - 46 minutes versus 56 minutes on the B - although it may feel like it, especially now the B meanders around Ingress Park.
or catch the 'all-stops' long-established 480, timetabled for 32 minutes and, in experience, takes no more than a few minutes longer in off-peak times.

When I caught the AZ, it terminated at Overcliffe, not exactly central.

(Thanks for the detailed description of what is happening in less than a fortnight's time. Unfortunately Arriva don't seem to be so keen to give any sort of detail bar "A new timetable will be in operation" and, for route A, "Amazon will be served". People use the bus for school, college or work; little wonder that many young people consider passing the driving test is almost as important as passing a GCSE.
In addition, the AZ route doesn’t have much on-street publicity to encourage people that it wasn’t just for Amazon workers. For example, at Ebbsfleet International, it stops at an unmarked stop with no flag, shelter or timetable - hardly encouraging.
Not surprised. There is a timetable at Greenhithe Station - but at the wrong stop!
At Dartford, it serves the same stop as journeys towards Temple Hill, yet the other side of the road for other buses to Gravesend (on service B). The road at Dartford is exceptionally difficult to cross, so it's not as though you can change your mind if you see one or the other coming.
For those that do not know it involves crossing the road using a bridge which is intended to link the town to the station and is not designed for moving at speed. It does look like some have tried vaulting the metal railings that separates the two carriageways but crossing these heavily used roads would present its own difficulties. It might suit an Olympic hurdler.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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In recent times, I have been at the bus stations in both St Helens and Warirngton hoping to catch an Arriva bus service which did not turn up. Locals in both locations seemed to feel that was not unusual. The services were:-
From St Helens.......Service 320 to Wigan Bus Station
From Warrington.....Service 360 to Wigan Bus Station
 

duncombec

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or catch the 'all-stops' long-established 480, timetabled for 32 minutes and, in experience, takes no more than a few minutes longer in off-peak times.
Indeed! The route via Stone is somewhat faster, although less frequent.

When I caught the AZ, it terminated at Overcliffe, not exactly central.
I think this came into force when the works started at Garrick Street. Last time I was in Gravesend that was still down to one lane, and presumably Overcliffe allows it to layover sensibly as well.
(Thanks for the detailed description of what is happening in less than a fortnight's time. Unfortunately Arriva don't seem to be so keen to give any sort of detail bar "A new timetable will be in operation" and, for route A, "Amazon will be served". People use the bus for school, college or work; little wonder that many young people consider passing the driving test is almost as important as passing a GCSE.
In turn, I am indebted to whoever provided the information to the M&D and East Kent Bus Club!
 

spuddie

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I've just been thinking about what has happened to the former Sovereign operations in Stevenage since Arriva took over in 2004

44 - Contract lost to another operator
300/1 - Split into 300/1/2, about to be changed again losing the 300
315 - lost to another operator
383/4 - lost to another operator
SB1 - Now just the 1
797 - withdrawn

Just leaves the 301 as the only service with the same number. It's not to say that routes wouldn't have been lost or withdrawn if Sovereign had remained but it's quite a noticeable drop in operations.

The SB services are a strange one, once Arriva took over all the Stevenage local services they renumbered all there's from 2 to SB2 etc only to reverse it a few years later back to single numbers, however they now have one Streetlite in heritage SB livery. The SB10 and SB15 are Herts contract services which always seems to avoided the bigger operators still retain their SB prefixes.
 
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