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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

CaergwrleKen

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Presumably as its classed as a diversionary route and in an emergency/disruption TfW may have to stop there.

Currently route learning as a guard with TfW and we have to familiarise ourselves with the stations en route we never stop at just incase we have to stop there one day for whatever reason.

Although I could be wrong!

As guard/conductor you are expected to know, as part of your route knowledge, details about platform signals, lengths etc for all stations on each route, even if they aren’t regular stops, I.e in TfW case Patricroft, Adderley Park etc.
 
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L401CJF

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As guard/conductor you are expected to know, as part of your route knowledge, details about platform signals, lengths etc for all stations on each route, even if they aren’t regular stops, I.e in TfW case Patricroft, Adderley Park etc.
Correct, I was just suggesting that if i have to learn the stations we pass through just incase, its feasible to think the new trains should be tested at the same stations just incase they have to stop there too.

Regarding previous comments about whether SDO is setup for these stations, im not sure, but ill definitely ask when its my turn for 197 training in a few months.
 

sd0733

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Correct, I was just suggesting that if i have to learn the stations we pass through just incase, its feasible to think the new trains should be tested at the same stations just incase they have to stop there too.

Regarding previous comments about whether SDO is setup for these stations, im not sure, but ill definitely ask when its my turn for 197 training in a few months.
From how I understand it ASDO will be set up in the database for every station on a route regardless of whether the train stops there or not, ie the likes of Sandbach will all be included in there
 

wobman

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From how I understand it ASDO will be set up in the database for every station on a route regardless of whether the train stops there or not, ie the likes of Sandbach will all be included in there
That's what I've heard it's ASDO operation on the 197s
 

L401CJF

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From how I understand it ASDO will be set up in the database for every station on a route regardless of whether the train stops there or not, ie the likes of Sandbach will all be included in there
That makes sense!
 

Bob Price

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Seem to be getting more units out for milage accumulation. 004 just passed Crewe on the Chester shuttle. Saw 002 out last week.
 

wobman

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197011 has been moved today to Crewe.
You would think the delivery of units will speed up if tfw want the 197s in service for the May TT introduction.

There's a 197 and 230 in Chester yards today ready for the traincrew training this week.
 

Jacob Porrett

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197009 arrived at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal over the weekend.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

197s to come into service from May timetable with Crewe-Chester and Crewe-Shrewsbury routes having them first. Chester to Liverpool will gain 197s in the Autumn. 56 ECS units will enter service next summer. No date yet for the non ECS 197s. 158s will be on the Cambrian line for a while yet. 11 170s will move to EMR in December.
 
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craigybagel

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197009 arrived at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal over the weekend.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

197s to come into service from May timetable with Crewe-Chester and Crewe-Shrewsbury routes having them first. Chester to Liverpool will gain 197s in the Autumn. 56 ECS units will enter service next summer. No date yet for the non ECS 197s. 158s will be on the Cambrian line for a while yet. 11 170s will move to EMR in December.
Source?
 

SuperLuke2334

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197009 arrived at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal over the weekend.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

197s to come into service from May timetable with Crewe-Chester and Crewe-Shrewsbury routes having them first. Chester to Liverpool will gain 197s in the Autumn. 56 ECS units will enter service next summer. No date yet for the non ECS 197s. 158s will be on the Cambrian line for a while yet. 11 170s will move to EMR in December.
I was still under the impression that Chester - Liverpool would be the first. Have you got a reliable source?
 

Eccles1983

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197009 arrived at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal over the weekend.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

197s to come into service from May timetable with Crewe-Chester and Crewe-Shrewsbury routes having them first. Chester to Liverpool will gain 197s in the Autumn. 56 ECS units will enter service next summer. No date yet for the non ECS 197s. 158s will be on the Cambrian line for a while yet. 11 170s will move to EMR in December.


That is wrong.

Chester - Liverpool is still programmed to be first, however there may be a slight change to that. It might be launched on a Welsh only route.

But it's definitely not Crewe-Salop.
 

wobman

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The 197s were always initially destined for the Chester to Liverpool service, it's the most logical route with the 197s home depot being Chester and its solely Chester driver's and chester / Ludo jn guards.
The problem with this new revised plan is that crewe shuttle services are driven by 5 different depots for drivers and more for guards. The crewe to Salop route is not driven by Chester driver's so crewe / Salop and Cardiff driver's and even more guards depots will need traction training on the 197s.

That's an awful lot of depots needing to sign the units by may tt that's only 8 weeks away !
 

craigybagel

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That is wrong.

Chester - Liverpool is still programmed to be first, however there may be a slight change to that. It might be launched on a Welsh only route.

But it's definitely not Crewe-Salop.
Thank you for the confirmation. I thought it all sounded suspect, hence the request for a source.
 

SuperLuke2334

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Thank you both for reliable sources, I didn't think it would either be feasible due to depot training, nor did I think that plans would change so quickly!
 

craigybagel

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Thank you both for reliable sources, I didn't think it would either be feasible due to depot training, nor did I think that plans would change so quickly!
To be fair, TFW have shown themselves on many occasions to be quite adept at changing their plans, and there is at least one depot that's due to start 197 training a lot earlier than initially expected that may or may not point to something different happening.

But that only goes so far, and the suggestions posted by the "Friend on Twitter" are a much bigger departure from the plans than could be reasonably expected, and as others have pointed out, would be extremely logistically challenging.
 

SuperLuke2334

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To be fair, TFW have shown themselves on many occasions to be quite adept at changing their plans, and there is at least one depot that's due to start 197 training a lot earlier than initially expected that may or may not point to something different happening.

But that only goes so far, and the suggestions posted by the "Friend on Twitter" are a much bigger departure from the plans than could be reasonably expected, and as others have pointed out, would be extremely logistically challenging.
That's great news, thank you. It's always good to hear positive comments about a company's ability to adapt quickly as well!
 

Jez

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I caught the 1830 from Manchester last night, a 3 car 175 and whilst not overcrowded or with people standing every double seat was taken on departure from Manchester and this was a Thursday evening. If it was a 2 car I could imagine it being very busy indeed especially on the 1630 1730 and 1830 departures.

So based on this, the sooner 5 car 197s start running on this route the better!
 

sd0733

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I caught the 1830 from Manchester last night, a 3 car 175 and whilst not overcrowded or with people standing every double seat was taken on departure from Manchester and this was a Thursday evening. If it was a 2 car I could imagine it being very busy indeed especially on the 1630 1730 and 1830 departures.

So based on this, the sooner 5 car 197s start running on this route the better!
Can't see a 197 being on many, if any Manchester to South Wales route for a while. As it stands I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Mk4 set on there before a 197.
 

craigybagel

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I caught the 1830 from Manchester last night, a 3 car 175 and whilst not overcrowded or with people standing every double seat was taken on departure from Manchester and this was a Thursday evening. If it was a 2 car I could imagine it being very busy indeed especially on the 1630 1730 and 1830 departures.

So based on this, the sooner 5 car 197s start running on this route the better!
Funnily enough before Covid the 1830 was booked for a 2 car! As you might imagine it was routinely Full & Standing to Wilmslow at least if not Crewe.
Can't see a 197 being on many, if any Manchester to South Wales route for a while. As it stands I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Mk4 set on there before a 197.
This. Has a 197 even been South of Shrewsbury yet? Until Cardiff and Carmarthen training takes place 197s can't go on South Wales services, and that doesn't seem likely to start any time soon.
 

mmh

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Funnily enough before Covid the 1830 was booked for a 2 car! As you might imagine it was routinely Full & Standing to Wilmslow at least if not Crewe.
Thank god they've been sensible and will be replacing old 2 car trains with new 2 car trains.
 

Caaardiff

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Thank god they've been sensible and will be replacing old 2 car trains with new 2 car trains.
I think it's been mentioned plenty of times on this forum that Manchester - South Wales services will generally be 5 car (2 car + 3 car 197 or 5 car Mk4)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

197009 arrived at Donnington Rail Freight Terminal over the weekend.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

197s to come into service from May timetable with Crewe-Chester and Crewe-Shrewsbury routes having them first. Chester to Liverpool will gain 197s in the Autumn. 56 ECS units will enter service next summer. No date yet for the non ECS 197s. 158s will be on the Cambrian line for a while yet. 11 170s will move to EMR in December.
197s will not be in passenger service until September. First routes whether Sept or before then with a one or two units will either be Chester - Liverpool or Blaenau Branch.
Train crew training is happening on Crewe - North Wales and Crewe - Shrewsbury at the moment. Your source may be getting confused with that.
 

craigybagel

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I think it's been mentioned plenty of times on this forum that Manchester - South Wales services will generally be 5 car (2 car + 3 car 197 or 5 car Mk4)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
It has indeed, numerous times. But since when have people here been prepared to let the truth get in the way of a good rant?
 

wobman

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It's not long until the 197s are introduced into service and driver training is ongoing, it takes 5 days to train up a driver and TFW want them on a Welsh route. That's going to be a real logistical challenge and not the Liverpool route, let's see how they can make that happen in such a short amount of time.

I've heard a few drivers are not impressed by the build quality of them, maybe that's teething problems and the other issues are resolved by May.
 

sd0733

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This. Has a 197 even been South of Shrewsbury yet? Until Cardiff and Carmarthen training takes place 197s can't go on South Wales services, and that doesn't seem likely to start any time soon.
Believe ones made Hereford now but pretty certain not been past there.
Afaik none have ever been beyond Wilmslow towards Manchester either. Way way off ready for service on there
 

mmh

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think it's been mentioned plenty of times on this forum that Manchester - South Wales services will generally be 5 car (2 car + 3 car 197 or 5 car Mk4)
That's great. Marvellous news for those who live in South Wales who want to go to Manchester. In the North we'll end up with...
 

Caaardiff

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That's great. Marvellous news for those who live in South Wales who want to go to Manchester. In the North we'll end up with...
To Manchester A consistent minimum 3 car 197. 4 or 5 car on busier peak services.
North Wales coast will see more regular services too towards Chester/Liverpool.

Any other negative statements we can answer for you?
 

craigybagel

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Believe ones made Hereford now but pretty certain not been past there.
Afaik none have ever been beyond Wilmslow towards Manchester either. Way way off ready for service on there
I did pass something between Hereford and Shrewsbury late at night that did look a lot like a 197, but given it was very late at night it was hard to tell - I thought I might have been seeing things!
 

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