Passengers denied boarding at Blackpool North?

[Ianno87]

Agreed; it's not really @geofftech's remit/role/style to lead a campaign against a TOC and it's a bit unfair for people to expect that.

Yep - Geoff is not a campaigner / ****-stirrer like that (and he's very much better for not being like that).

 

[skyhigh]

That did a whole lot of good didn't it? No doubt their Twitter team are a white label outsourcing company whose staff have never been to Blackpool North anyway.

None of that is true. The social media team are direct employees and do travel the network frequently. What do you actually expect them to do when a tweet is sent about an issue in the past, other than log the complaint?

 

[SuspectUsual]

That said, if there is ever a "Meet the manager" session I could get to, I'd be interested in asking some difficult questions...

And not getting any answers. But if you’re lucky a bit of head-nodding and an “I’m sorry you feel like that” type non apology

 

[Horizon22]

I had that issue at New St (being asked to scan an e-ticket that I had already said wouldn't work) and it occurred to me afterwards why this actually makes sense - they want to see what error code the barrier showed. Though I suppose with an e-ticket there is a chance of it rejecting because it has been refunded, whereas with a paper ticket there isn't.

I'd say that actually conscientious gateline staff will do this. I've seen it happen at Victoria and even though there's some initial frustration / mystification from the passenger who knows its not going to work (as does the staff member), analysing the error code is quite useful. Especially when you have high-level fraud happening as did occur on some routes so people try to avoid the machine as much as possible. As long as the gateline staff explain why, its fine. Good when its backed up by a revenue operation too.

 

[skyhigh]

I'd say that actually conscientious gateline staff will do this. I've seen it happen at Victoria and even though there's some initial frustration / mystification from the passenger who knows its not going to work (as does the staff member), analysing the error code is quite useful. Especially when you have high-level fraud happening as did occur on some routes so people try to avoid the machine as much as possible. As long as the gateline staff explain why, its fine. Good when its backed up by a revenue operation too.

There is a surprising number of people who will go straight to the barrier staff with an e/m-ticket and say 'it won't work' in the hope they'll be let through without having to scan the ticket - if it gets scanned it's much harder to get a refund.....

But yes, as you say, staff should politely explain why they want you to scan it again so they can see what the error is.

 

[Horizon22]

There is a surprising number of people who will go straight to the barrier staff with an e/m-ticket and say 'it won't work' in the hope they'll be let through without having to scan the ticket - if it gets scanned it's much harder to get a refund.....

But yes, as you say, staff should politely explain why they want you to scan it again so they can see what the error is.

Getting a bit off-topic but yeah, I think many are still getting used to e/m-tickets and scanning them. Doesn't help there's so many different styles of tickets and scanners across the network.

 

[bspahh]

You could try Joe Lycett's Got Your Back

Joe Lycett's Got Your Back | Channel 4

Do you want Joe Lycett to fight for y

www.channel4.com

 

[Clip]

No hose reels I've seen. They get tanked and empties in the sidings now.

There still are hose reels on the platforms

The worse thing about the doors they keep closed is that they lock them with a key and the only designated fire exit is in the back corner of the station apart from a lockable gate next to the gate line.

Terrible station and I e given up complaining about it as a regular user

 

[yorkie]

We're drifting a bit off topic so I've locked the thread for now.

However if someone has an important update, such as a response from Northern, or if they had a recent experience at Blackpool North to report, please report this post and include a draft of what you'd like to post and we will be happy to consider reopening the thread at that point.

 

[Cowley]

Thread reopened for @Shotton to provide an update.

 

[Shotton]

Thank you! I visited Blackpool North today, and contrary to the stories in this thread, I had a very positive experience. I thought I had no chance of getting a zero fare overdistance excess, but the lady in the ticket office was lovely and sorted out the excess without a problem.

Additionally, my Lancashire day ranger did not work the barriers when entering the station, but the barrier staff let me through without issue.

Hopefully my experience is not an isolated one, and things have changed for the better

 

[Vespa]

Thank you! I visited Blackpool North today, and contrary to the stories in this thread, I had a very positive experience. I thought I had no chance of getting a zero fare overdistance excess, but the lady in the ticket office was lovely and sorted out the excess without a problem.

Additionally, my Lancashire day ranger did not work the barriers when entering the station, but the barrier staff let me through without issue.

Hopefully my experience is not an isolated one, and things have changed for the better

What about your departure experience, where they positive and you can access the platform in good time ?

 

[Shotton]

Platform experience was not awful, but not perfect. Inbound train arrived at 16:53, and gate was opened briefly to allow passengers off, staff member seemed pleasent enough, and closed the gate again before opening it at 16:56, 7 minutes before scheduled departure at 17:03. The concourse was not busy and there were few passengers for the train, so there was more then adequate time to board, however, this may be much more of a problem at busier times. I did not try and access the platform outside of this, however, I did stop before boarding the train to photograph it, and this was not met with any resistance.

 

[permarquis]

Without wishing to ruin the mood, I've lurked here for a while and never quite believed Blackpool North could possibly be as bad as everyone says, but I visited for the first time last year (February) and the whole experience was utterly, utterly bizarre.

The way they manage entry and exit to/from the platforms is totally baffling, even to someone like me who read this thread and expected it. The doors are treated with such divine reverence that you'd be forgiven for thinking they existed before the station, and it was built around them as a place of worship.

Which door you're supposed to use at any given time, and when it'll be unlocked, is a mystery that science cannot explain. One thing's for certain though: you will use the wrong one, and it will be your fault. If none of the doors are unlocked and you miss your train, that'll be your fault too!

During one painful morning there, my train was due to leave in a couple of minutes and the only door they'd unlocked was to let some arrivals in, so I foolishly attempted to use said door to get outside to my train (you know, the thing stations are for). The reaction to this of one of the gate-line staff members was to sprint to the door, demand I walk back inside, and frantically lock it again as if I had defiled holy ground. They then unlocked the door immediately next to it, which leads to exactly the same bit of tarmac, and demanded I walk through that again instead, like some arcane religious ritual. He then walked back to his mate at the gate-line and made a big show of shaking his head about the sheer audacity of it all.

So as best I can tell, to escape the station unscathed you basically have to embrace Schrödinger's Door. If you choose a door to wait at and hope for the best, it will always be the wrong door, and you will be punished for this. So you have to stare resolutely at the ceiling and pretend you aren't getting panicky despite the fact your train leaves in three minutes and all of the doors are locked, bolted, and probably electrified too for good measure. Then, and only then, one of the doors will be slowly unlocked (the one furthest away from you, no matter where you are) and you will be permitted to leave this cursed place.

(Obviously I'm being a little silly, and I'm sure good people work there and mileage will vary.)

 

[Deafdoggie]

and probably electrified too for good measure.

Don't give them ideas!

 

[jon0844]

Without wishing to ruin the mood, I've lurked here for a while and never quite believed Blackpool North could possibly be as bad as everyone says, but I visited for the first time last year (February) and the whole experience was utterly, utterly bizarre.

The way they manage entry and exit to/from the platforms is totally baffling, even to someone like me who read this thread and expected it. The doors are treated with such divine reverence that you'd be forgiven for thinking they existed before the station, and it was built around them as a place of worship.

Which door you're supposed to use at any given time, and when it'll be unlocked, is a mystery that science cannot explain. One thing's for certain though: you will use the wrong one, and it will be your fault. If none of the doors are unlocked and you miss your train, that'll be your fault too!

During one painful morning there, my train was due to leave in a couple of minutes and the only door they'd unlocked was to let some arrivals in, so I foolishly attempted to use said door to get outside to my train (you know, the thing stations are for). The reaction to this of one of the gate-line staff members was to sprint to the door, demand I walk back inside, and frantically lock it again as if I had defiled holy ground. They then unlocked the door immediately next to it, which leads to exactly the same bit of tarmac, and demanded I walk through that again instead, like some arcane religious ritual. He then walked back to his mate at the gate-line and made a big show of shaking his head about the sheer audacity of it all.

So as best I can tell, to escape the station unscathed you basically have to embrace Schrödinger's Door. If you choose a door to wait at and hope for the best, it will always be the wrong door, and you will be punished for this. So you have to stare resolutely at the ceiling and pretend you aren't getting panicky despite the fact your train leaves in three minutes and all of the doors are locked, bolted, and probably electrified too for good measure. Then, and only then, one of the doors will be slowly unlocked (the one furthest away from you, no matter where you are) and you will be permitted to leave this cursed place.

(Obviously I'm being a little silly, and I'm sure good people work there and mileage will vary.)

I assume they do some of these crazy things because of the risk of lots of drunks (stag/hen parties etc) wandering around uncontrolled, but surely they only need to implement special measures at certain times? It does seem like they have these rituals all the time, and it's a bit of a game to them - or a power trip.

I've only been there a couple of times in the last few years (once I had to return by bus as there was a strike that started the evening of our visit, so didn't even get to experience being herded like cattle) and on the return trip that did run, it left late due to a mass surge of people allowed on to the platform to board quite late. With lots of buggies and children, it was a bit of a mess - and I'd argue is more risk from a Platform Train Interface safety angle. You're safely controlling people indoors, where there's near zero danger, and creating a danger on the platform that you were supposedly trying to prevent!

I wonder how delay attribution works, because surely there are penalties for late departures and someone higher up would want to try and reduce them?

 

[L401CJF]

I assume they do some of these crazy things because of the risk of lots of drunks (stag/hen parties etc) wandering around uncontrolled, but surely they only need to implement special measures at certain times? It does seem like they have these rituals all the time, and it's a bit of a game to them - or a power trip.

I've only been there a couple of times in the last few years (once I had to return by bus as there was a strike that started the evening of our visit, so didn't even get to experience being herded like cattle) and on the return trip that did run, it left late due to a mass surge of people allowed on to the platform to board quite late. With lots of buggies and children, it was a bit of a mess - and I'd argue is more risk from a Platform Train Interface safety angle. You're safely controlling people indoors, where there's near zero danger, and creating a danger on the platform that you were supposedly trying to prevent!

I wonder how delay attribution works, because surely there are penalties for late departures and someone higher up would want to try and reduce them?

Id agree but many of other stations also deal with large numbers of stag/hen parties, drunks on nights off, for example Liverpool Lime St and they dont close their platforms off!

 

[Western Sunset]

Thread reopened for @Shotton to provide an update.

Without wishing to ruin the mood, I've lurked here for a while and never quite believed Blackpool North could possibly be as bad as everyone says, but I visited for the first time last year (February) and the whole experience was utterly, utterly bizarre.

The way they manage entry and exit to/from the platforms is totally baffling, even to someone like me who read this thread and expected it. The doors are treated with such divine reverence that you'd be forgiven for thinking they existed before the station, and it was built around them as a place of worship.

Which door you're supposed to use at any given time, and when it'll be unlocked, is a mystery that science cannot explain. One thing's for certain though: you will use the wrong one, and it will be your fault. If none of the doors are unlocked and you miss your train, that'll be your fault too!

During one painful morning there, my train was due to leave in a couple of minutes and the only door they'd unlocked was to let some arrivals in, so I foolishly attempted to use said door to get outside to my train (you know, the thing stations are for). The reaction to this of one of the gate-line staff members was to sprint to the door, demand I walk back inside, and frantically lock it again as if I had defiled holy ground. They then unlocked the door immediately next to it, which leads to exactly the same bit of tarmac, and demanded I walk through that again instead, like some arcane religious ritual. He then walked back to his mate at the gate-line and made a big show of shaking his head about the sheer audacity of it all.

So as best I can tell, to escape the station unscathed you basically have to embrace Schrödinger's Door. If you choose a door to wait at and hope for the best, it will always be the wrong door, and you will be punished for this. So you have to stare resolutely at the ceiling and pretend you aren't getting panicky despite the fact your train leaves in three minutes and all of the doors are locked, bolted, and probably electrified too for good measure. Then, and only then, one of the doors will be slowly unlocked (the one furthest away from you, no matter where you are) and you will be permitted to leave this cursed place.

(Obviously I'm being a little silly, and I'm sure good people work there and mileage will vary.)

What a brilliant post! Well composed, with a great balance between perceived truth, reality and humour. If there was such a thing, I'd award you "Post of the Day".

 

[robbeech]

Id agree but many of other stations also deal with large numbers of stag/hen parties, drunks on nights off, for example Liverpool Lime St and they dont close their platforms off!

The irony is, Blackpool DON’T deal with large parties. It’s bedlam there whenever there is anything like this. So they can’t really justifiably use this as an excuse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Id agree but many of other stations also deal with large numbers of stag/hen parties, drunks on nights off, for example Liverpool Lime St and they dont close their platforms off!

I don't really see any sort of problem with this "airport style" operation of the railway. It was very often the case in BR days, and sometimes it worked quite well, for instance Inverness worked far better like that (people would properly queue for each train behind a lattice gate) than it does with a gateline and a mini "Euston scrum". Indeed that approach would work better at Euston than the "scrum" does.

The problem at BPN appears to be them doing it incompetently and blaming passengers for this incompetence.

Enthusiasts clearly don't like not being able to hang around on the platforms watching and photographing operations, but there is no reason there should be a right to do this, and it should not be involved in the decision on how to operate. If the operational approach suits it, as it does at a station like (say) Preston, then fine, but if it doesn't, then find somewhere else to spot and phot.

 

[The exile]

I don't really see any sort of problem with this "airport style" operation of the railway. It was very often the case in BR days, and sometimes it worked quite well, for instance Inverness worked far better like that (people would properly queue for each train behind a lattice gate) than it does with a gateline and a mini "Euston scrum". Indeed that approach would work better at Euston than the "scrum" does.

The problem at BPN appears to be them doing it incompetently and blaming passengers for this incompetence.

Enthusiasts clearly don't like not being able to hang around on the platforms watching and photographing operations, but there is no reason there should be a right to do this, and it should not be involved in the decision on how to operate. If the operational approach suits it, as it does at a station like (say) Preston, then fine, but if it doesn't, then find somewhere else to spot and phot.

All well and good provided certain conditions are met:
1 Queueing for each specific train must be clearly defined and related to the entrance door that is to be used
2 There must be a minimum amount of time set between allowing access and departure (except in extreme emergency situations). I would suggest between 5 and 10 minutes at a terminus. If that is not adhered to then departure must be held and all delays accruing attributed to the station
3 The operating company must prove on a regular basis that this mode of operation is necessary - based on the risk assessment / evaluation that determines the particular need at this ( or any other) location.
4. If the justification is to separate in- and outbound flows of passengers then timetabled turnarounds must reflect this ( minimum 20ish minutes?)

 

[Bletchleyite]

All well and good provided certain conditions are met:
1 Queueing for each specific train must be clearly defined and related to the entrance door that is to be used
2 There must be a minimum amount of time set between allowing access and departure (except in extreme emergency situations). I would suggest between 5 and 10 minutes at a terminus. If that is not adhered to then departure must be held and all delays accruing attributed to the station

4. If the justification is to separate in- and outbound flows of passengers then timetabled turnarounds must reflect this ( minimum 20ish minutes?)

Agree with these. They are necessary to make it effective.

3 The operating company must prove on a regular basis that this mode of operation is necessary - based on the risk assessment / evaluation that determines the particular need at this ( or any other) location.

But not this. The TOC has the right to choose whatever mode of operation they wish.

 

[The exile]

Agree with these. They are necessary to make it effective.



But not this. The TOC has the right to choose whatever mode of operation they wish.

On second thoughts, if 1,2 and 4 all apply then 3 doesn’t need to (and yes in principle you’re right - how they operate is the their business ). While passengers are being treated like cattle and missing trains because 1,2 and 4 are not applied - then I believe the operator should have to justify why.

 

[chorleyjeff]

One way to fill the car and coach parks in Blackpool. If they hate their customers so much, why not shut the railway down and tell the staff to look for jobs as guards in a North Korean labour camp?

I'm tempted to buy a couple of smart coaches, employ some attractive looking staff and send them to charm school, then advertise fares 15p below the standard train fare and watch the money roll in.

Where would the couple of coaches go to and from?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where would the couple of coaches go to and from?

There are already coaches between lots of places and Blackpool including a reasonably frequent service to Manchester. Relevantly, the coach station is on (part of) the Blackpool Central site, and the toilets for it used to be (but aren't any more) the old station ones.

 

[chorleyjeff]

It needs a journalist such as Laura Kuenssberg to interview one of the current crop who now run Northern Trains or a similar senior manager of that new company appearing on "Hard Talk" being asked some searching questions by Stephen Sackur.

But influential people who can change things are not interested in public transport at places like Blackpool except to complain that too much taxpayers money is wasted on it. Politicians are not interested because the number of people is small and spread over numerous constituencies.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2022 ==

There are already coaches between lots of places and Blackpool including a reasonably frequent service to Manchester. Relevantly, the coach station is on (part of) the Blackpool Central site, and the toilets for it used to be (but aren't any more) the old station ones.

Yes. But a couple of coaches with nice staff was the suggestion. Where would those two special coaches go ?
Are the coach fares to Manchester similar to train fares ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the good old days when Transpennine Express ran services to Blackpool North (and Windermere), it was possible to book seat reservation tickets (and also enjoy the relative comfort of first class) and at Blackpool North, elderly people such as I who are not as nimble as the younger element were not left at the gateway when it opened to allow a rush forward similar to the start of a Grand National when the tapes went up, as having reserved seats protected people like me from having to endure the "first come, first served" seat occupancy stakes.

 

[Mikey C]

It's especially baffling when they have some decent length trains operating. When you have 6 car 331s and 195s in service when its busy, people can spread themselves out along the platform, indeed in normal stations they'd be encouraged or even ordered to do so!

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the good old days when Transpennine Express ran services to Blackpool North (and Windermere), it was possible to book seat reservation tickets (and also enjoy the relative comfort of first class) and at Blackpool North, elderly people such as I who are not as nimble as the younger element were not left at the gateway when it opened to allow a rush forward similar to the start of a Grand National when the tapes went up, as having reserved seats protected people like me from having to endure the "first come, first served" seat occupancy stakes.

Northern's 195s and 331s have electronic seat reservation displays, so it's a bit surprising they don't actually issue them. I suppose it'd mean they had to diagram things properly rather than using the random unit generator, but Manchester-Blackpool is pretty solid 6-car 331s now.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is first class available on any of the Northern fleet that now normally run in service?