Virgin Hyperloop One drops Plans for Passengers

[Lucan]

It has not yet been noted here that Richard Branson's Virgin Hyperloop One, the most significant Hyperloop company, has abandoned its plans to carry passengers. Half its staff were sacked in late February.

https://thenyledger.com/companies/virgin-hyperloop-axes-half-its-staff-in-focus-on-freight/

This is good news, especially for railways. Hyperloop was always going to be a white elephant, while diverting funds and approvals from railway projects, even if it ever got regulatory and planning approval other than in nations like Saudi Arabia. The UK DfT has been rightly dismissive of it.

It is hard to believe that Elon Musk took it seriously himself when he revived the vehicles in a vacuum tube idea, and he has not taken any significant stake in it. His 2013 white paper is full of technical whitewash, for example he claims the thermal expansion of the tube would be "absorbed" by dampers, and he does not explain how the pods' emergency brakes would dissipate their enormous kinetic energy in a vacuum; just two examples of the flaws that a non-technical person (like a typical financier or politician) might not notice.

Musk has a personal vendetta against railways and the real purpose of his white paper was as a weapon against the Californian high speed rail project. He makes that clear in his introduction. Opponents of HS2 have also used it, claiming that Hyperloop would make it redundant (although they would oppose a Hyperloop even more).

The Hyperloop passenger safety issues have never been satisfactorily addressed, and are not likely to be without drastic changes to the original concept. Virgin Hyperloop One has conceded that freight (it would need to be small) is the best way to go forward with this, if at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It has no future at all, to be honest, to the point that I don't think it was ever a considerable threat to classic rail.

Decarbonised air travel will finish it off. Why build a massive tube when you can use all that (quite thin) air at 35,000ft for free, only needing an airport at each end?

 

[jon0844]

It was a total con and even Elon had little to nothing to do with it, bar encouraging universities to 'compete' to try and build something (presumably to try and avoid R&D spending). All the trials were laughable and the tiny tubes built have all rusted away.

Thunderf00t has done countless debunking videos, along with others.

I think the issue is that with Elon Musk (and then Richard Branson) promoting the idea, the fanboys (and media) lapped it up and believed the hype - and then spent many months attacking those who knew it couldn't and wouldn't work (and EVEN IF IT DID WORK was totally impractical as any sort of mass people mover alternative to rail or plane).

Look at the joke that is an underground tunnel that moves Tesla's at 30mph through tiny tunnels and with a pathetic capacity. Arguably a bit of a fun ride for tourists, or something for the rich who can avoid the traffic at street level. Hyperloop would have been the same if it worked, as it could never shift enough people or work how it was suggested (pods slotting in amongst other high-speed services). There was never any mention of how it would cope with a broken pod/train or even worse, a serious incident.

God knows why Virgin got involved.. Were they caught up in the hype or did they manage to grift some investment money?

 

[Lucan]

Elon had little to nothing to do with it, bar encouraging universities to 'compete' to try and build something

Musk poses at Hyperloop publicity events. He is a showman, loves media attention, and can afford to buy it. It is his way to toss "outrageous" ideas to his public and the media and then enjoy the reaction. The media lap it up because it sells. To him it is like tossing fish to the seals at Zoo feeding time. His proposed Mars colony (in which he will be the "Doge"), his 1000 person Starship idea for international travel by ICBMs, his bitcoin scheme which he later admitted was just a joke, are all in this category.

EVEN IF IT DID WORK was totally impractical as any sort of mass people mover

Anything can work as long it does not break the laws of physics and you throw enough money at it. Possibly a H-L will be built, maybe LA to LV, but its finances will implode, the novelty will wear off, and there would only be the one.

God knows why Virgin got involved.

Musk and Branson are friends.

I found this interesting paper from the Transport Research Lab. The author hits most of the main points and finds it entirely unsuited to the UK, mainly because the Hyperloop needs to be almost straight (horizontally and vertically) because of its speed, so the UK's undulating terrain would require a lot of civil enginering. Interestingly the main criticism is that Musk vastly underestimates the building and running costs.

She does miss or make light of some important points however - one being that Musk's finance calcs assumed he would not need to buy or rent the land under his raised tubes (think again Mr Musk) - although she does reckon the supports would cost more than the land. She also does not mention the massive opposition there would be to the ugly twin tubes crossing the countryside. She says the Hyperloop carrying capacity on London - Edinburgh would about equal that of rail - but she compares Hyperloop operating at minimum headway with trains only half-hourly. But a high speed railway could have a much higher frequency than that, depending on demand.

https://trl.co.uk/uploads/trl/documents/ACA003-Hyperloop.pdf

 

[Cloud Strife]

God knows why Virgin got involved.. Were they caught up in the hype or did they manage to grift some investment money?

Virgin have a long history of this. They start a project, and they use the media hype to acquire financing. If they get the financing, then they flog a large part of the company and maintain a small stake while selling the Virgin brand name for a high price. If they don't get it, then they haven't lost very much money.

 

[nlogax]

Hopefully this rings the death knell of Hyperflop. It was a ridiculous idea to begin with. No-one considered the real world practicalities.

 

[pdeaves]

his bitcoin scheme which he later admitted was just a joke

If you're wealthy enough you can have a grand wheeze: if it works, claim the kudos; if it doesn't, claim it was a joke. That way you save face without having to admit something was a silly idea.

 

[jon0844]

He's (Elon) great at manipulating the markets, and he doesn't even have to do much himself - just get his loyal, cult-like, followers to do his bidding.

When he said he'd accept crypto for buying cars, then changed his minds, the movement must have made him a small fortune. I bet he sold shortly before he said 'on second thoughts...'

And the regulators seem unable or unwilling to punish him properly, and seem scared of him. And with good reason, given he's treated like God. A bit like Trump managing to thus far avoid charges because there's a reluctance to do more than suggest strong action.

 

[Mikey C]

Musk has a personal vendetta against railways and the real purpose of his white paper was as a weapon against the Californian high speed rail project. He makes that clear in his introduction. Opponents of HS2 have also used it, claiming that Hyperloop would make it redundant (although they would oppose a Hyperloop even more).

The Hyperloop itself will be rendered redundant, once Tardises become widely available

 

[Lucan]

A bit like Trump managing to thus far avoid charges because there's a reluctance to do more than suggest strong action.

There are quite a few legal actions going on against Musk, but civil rather than criminal. Musk openly flouts rules, such as the Covid ones, usually claiming they are preventing progress, and with the presumption that he can talk his way out of it - which he usually does because politicians seem to be dazzled by him. You cannot be sure either that money is not passing under the table.

For example he is currently being sued by some major Tesla shareholders for using money from his Tesla company to bail out his failing Solar City (solar panels) company in 2016. The other Tesla board members who also held Solar City shares have fessed up and settled out of court, but Musk is contesting despite it being pocket change to him. I think he enjoys the theatre. I don't know much about US company law, but it does look as if his actions were illegal and he has not really denied it, but rather he is playing the "green" card and implying the rules therefore don't apply. The trial is being reported in some detail on Common Sense Skeptic's Youtube channel. The verdict is expected soon, perhaps it will be the start of his downfall - he is certainly riding for one.