West Midlands Trains (LNR brand) surburban fleet withdrawals

[Class15]

I have not seen a thread covering this, so I have created this thread to discuss Class 319 and 350/2 withdrawals.

Anyone know when the fist withdrawals are happening?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No 350/2s will be withdrawn until at least some 730s are in service. As they have no planned home yet there's no pressure.

I don't know about 319s, I expect they could do without them now if they wanted.

 

[Class15]

Thanks Bletchleyite!

 

[Wyrleybart]

No 350/2s will be withdrawn until at least some 730s are in service. As they have no planned home yet there's no pressure.

I don't know about 319s, I expect they could do without them now if they wanted.

I know even less than you but do those 319s actually do much at all ?
From memory they were basically for a 12 car "crowdbuster" up in the morning Tring - Euston, with a corresponding Down to Tring again in the afdternoon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know even less than you but do those 319s actually do much at all ?
From memory they were basically for a 12 car "crowdbuster" up in the morning Tring - Euston, with a corresponding Down to Tring again in the afdternoon.

That's basically what they still do (though the morning one starts back from Northampton), though I think one set only runs as 8-car now, probably showing just how knackered they are (e.g. some of them have no heating and it's irreparable without ripping the whole interior out).

I don't think it would take much shuffling to get rid of them, to be honest. I'm very surprised they weren't scrapped during COVID.

 

[87015]

A number of 319s are already stood down in warm store before going off lease soon. Most of the trains they work have just been cancelled which leaves a dire peak hour semi-fast service between previously busy station pairs on top of the GTR capes. The remaining LNR peak hour slow arrivals are the busiest trains at Euston in the last set of stats.

Oh and the 350 in the Harrow suicide last year is still on decision and may not come back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A number of 319s are already stood down in warm store before going off lease soon. Most of the trains they work have just been cancelled which leaves a dire peak hour semi-fast service between previously busy station pairs on top of the GTR capes. The remaining LNR peak hour slow arrivals are the busiest trains at Euston in the last set of stats.

I wonder is the coming timetable recast going to resolve these issues, particularly if the view is that the Southern won't be back?

I'll do a new thread on that: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wcml-recast-effect-on-lnr-services.229058/

Oh and the 350 in the Harrow suicide last year is still on decision and may not come back.

Wow, amazing that that would cause enough damage to write one off.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A number of 319s are already stood down in warm store before going off lease soon. Most of the trains they work have just been cancelled which leaves a dire peak hour semi-fast service between previously busy station pairs on top of the GTR capes. The remaining LNR peak hour slow arrivals are the busiest trains at Euston in the last set of stats.

Oh and the 350 in the Harrow suicide last year is still on decision and may not come back.

May I ask which 319s please? And which 350?

 

[59CosG95]

A number of 319s are already stood down in warm store before going off lease soon. Most of the trains they work have just been cancelled which leaves a dire peak hour semi-fast service between previously busy station pairs on top of the GTR capes. The remaining LNR peak hour slow arrivals are the busiest trains at Euston in the last set of stats.

Oh and the 350 in the Harrow suicide last year is still on decision and may not come back.

Is the Harrow 350 a 350/2? If so the unit will need to be repaired for handback to Porterbrook.

 

[Class15]

Sadly I don’t know, but I can remember seeing 319219 so that must still be in service
(I was replying to @TT-ONR-NRN but forgot to add quote)

 

[Wyrleybart]

Today LNR 319s in operation
214+219+220 working

2N10 0650 NPN-EUS
2T13 0831 EUS-TRI
2T14 0925 TRI-EUS
5C20 ECS
5J95 ECS
2J95 1709 EUS-WFJ
2J96 1743 WFJ-EUS
2K33 1824 EUS-MKC
5N33 ECS

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Mar 2022 ==

Also notice 350s of all marques seem intermingled still

350259+350407+350102 on 1Y10 0553 WVH-EUS

Plenty of /1s /2s /3s and /4s but very few triples

 

[150249]

Is the Harrow 350 a 350/2? If so the unit will need to be repaired for handback to Porterbrook.

Which unit is this one?

 

[8J]

Which unit is this one?

350127 I believe. I've not heard it is a write-off but I have heard the affected cab will need replacing along with the control equipment in said cab.

 

[Class15]

350/2s as battery units will be interesting for sure, will they work East West Rail or possibly in the North? I think they could find electric work if the DfT had any sense when it comes to electrification

 

[150249]

350127 I believe. I've not heard it is a write-off but I have heard the affected cab will need replacing along with the control equipment in said cab.

How have I not heard of this? What happened to it?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Given DofT hacking into other operators legacy units surprised they've not insisted same here although im happy if they don't

 

[87015]

Given DofT hacking into other operators legacy units surprised they've not insisted same here although im happy if they don't

You making things up yet again - Evidence of this please?

 

[D365]

Given DofT hacking into other operators legacy units surprised they've not insisted same here although im happy if they don't

Hacking?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Hacking?

cut with rough or heavy blows - although i get that's not what you normal associate with the term.

anyhow i was drawing a parallel with withdrawal of 456's, SN 455's and the 379's being stood down

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You making things up yet again - Evidence of this please?

What on earth do you mean? He’s right, they have unexpectedly withdrawn legacy stock - 379 and 456s have had a quick and sudden demise, and now SN 455s will too. The sharpness of your comment is rather ironic.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

And if you mean it has been the TOCs decision and not the DfT, the average person isn’t to know that. Making a mistake is very different to making things up.

 

[Southern Dvr]

If they’re done with the 319s can we have them down here in SN land to supplement the other 455 replacement stock?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they’re done with the 319s can we have them down here in SN land to supplement the other 455 replacement stock?

They're knackered, you don't want them. Half of them have no heating. They need to be scrapped.

 

[DarloRich]

There have been several parked up in Bletchley carriage sidings and seemingly parked up outside Bletchley depot shed. I know some are still in use but not many of the units and not often!

Plenty of /1s /2s /3s and /4s but very few triples

I havent seen a 4 or 12 car for ages but the 8 car trains do seem to be a mixture of 350/1/3/4 & a 350/2

 

[Bletchleyite]

8 is very much a sweet spot for most services, but 12s will start being needed again at certain times as custom rebuilds. 4 is not enough for very much other than very early morning on a Sunday. 730s will only come in "6" and "12" (actually 5 and 10) which will mean either more full-length trains or more severe overcrowding. Ordering units with 24m vehicles really was a bad move.

 

[swt_passenger]

350/2s as battery units will be interesting for sure, will they work East West Rail or possibly in the North? I think they could find electric work if the DfT had any sense when it comes to electrification

I think the original suggestion about batteries a few years ago was the ROSCO kite flying, and it will be the last we ever hear of battery 350/2s, and EWR will be the last place they’ll ever appear.

 

[nw1]

8 is very much a sweet spot for most services, but 12s will start being needed again at certain times as custom rebuilds. 4 is not enough for very much other than very early morning on a Sunday. 730s will only come in "6" and "12" (actually 5 and 10) which will mean either more full-length trains or more severe overcrowding. Ordering units with 24m vehicles really was a bad move.

Why even replace (some, presumably, of) the 350s at all? (sorry if this is a silly question but if fleet uniformity is desired, they already [mostly] have that with the 350s).

 

[swt_passenger]

Why even replace (some, presumably, of) the 350s at all? (sorry if this is a silly question but if fleet uniformity is desired, they already [mostly] have that with the 350s).

The usual reason given in earlier discussions is that the 350/2 are just too expensive to lease compared to the other 3 batches.

(Although another possible reason is that @Bletchleyite doesn’t like 2+3 seating… )

 

[Bletchleyite]

The usual reason given in earlier discussions is that the 350/2 are just too expensive to lease compared to the other 3 batches.

That's the reason, yes. WMT basically called the leaseco's bluff and they lost.

(Although another possible reason is that @Bletchleyite doesn’t like 2+3 seating… )

The 730s for the south WCML have 3+2 seating (they are to be basically identical to the GA 720s other than having sham First Class and unit end gangways). The 2+2 ones are for the Liverpools etc. Though knowing WMT I don't doubt they'll end up in one pool.

 

[DBS92042]

There have been several parked up in Bletchley carriage sidings and seemingly parked up outside Bletchley depot shed. I know some are still in use but not many of the units and not often!

I havent seen a 4 or 12 car for ages but the 8 car trains do seem to be a mixture of 350/1/3/4 & a 350/2

350128 was working solo on a Milton Keynes stopper the other day (Friday around mid-day), first 4 car I've seen in a while