Caledonian Sleeper

[Techniquest]

You delayed coffee time for photography?!

Seriously, I looked at that photo today and it looks beautiful

 

[aar0]

If it's up to GBRf to bear the costs of any under-performance of the 73s then you can't really include that in an assessment of the financial performance of the CS operation. If anything it might show the CS operation did the *right* thing in arranging haulage as a fixed price contract (if that's what it is).

But are the 73s really underperforming, anyway? Not long ago I thought there was some level of consensus that they were pretty decent and generally did a good job, and the conversion had been regarded quite a success.

We go through the convo every month or so. In essence:
- GBRf have the contract to drag CS trains about
- they can do this however they want, but are quite expert at it, moving things on rails being their raisin d’etre
- their fleet planning reflects a number of things they must balance
- having a 66 and a 73 is something they planned for in winter
- this doesn’t mean they should burn the 73s

 

[Deepgreen]

We go through the convo every month or so. In essence:
- GBRf have the contract to drag CS trains about
- they can do this however they want, but are quite expert at it, moving things on rails being their raisin d’etre
- their fleet planning reflects a number of things they must balance
- having a 66 and a 73 is something they planned for in winter
- this doesn’t mean they should burn the 73s

What is the reason for both locos being used specifically in winter - extra heating power, extra snow ploughing power...? With a four coach train, surely adhesion isn't an issue even in winter? If it's about ensuring a 73 breakdown doesn't strand people on moorland in winter, surely that indicates a failure of reliability of the 73s? No, of course don't "burn" them, but having to use two locos on a four coach train cannot surely be seen as a success.

 

[Roast Veg]

Took the Fort William on Wednesday night and it was a 66+73 combo. Unfortunately the snow has melted on all but the peaks. My dear Ms Veg was chuffed to bits with the whole experience.

 

[contrex]

moving things on rails being their raisin d’etre

At least it is currantly

 

[paul1609]

What is the reason for both locos being used specifically in winter - extra heating power, extra snow ploughing power...? With a four coach train, surely adhesion isn't an issue even in winter? If it's about ensuring a 73 breakdown doesn't strand people on moorland in winter, surely that indicates a failure of reliability of the 73s? No, of course don't "burn" them, but having to use two locos on a four coach train cannot surely be seen as a success.

Believe the problem is adhesion, one of the problem areas is around Ranoch Station because their are insufficient trains on the line the railhead doesn't get conditioned. Its not unheard of for class 156s to come to grief either.

 

[alistairlees]

At least it is currantly

 

[Tormod]

I believe that Rule 34 applies.

I had to look that up!

 

[ashkeba]

but having to use two locos on a four coach train cannot surely be seen as a success.

GWR will want to know why you hate their shortened HSTs!

CS are not so unusual in this. I think GA even ran 2x37s to push-pull 2 Mk2s on a few days.

 

[Techniquest]

I had to look that up!

Likewise! I'd not heard of Rule 34, I had of what it means but the specific term.

Roast Veg, glad to hear your other half enjoyed the experience! Sounds like a good excuse to go again soon!

 

[185143]

GWR will want to know why you hate their shortened HSTs!

CS are not so unusual in this. I think GA even ran 2x37s to push-pull 2 Mk2s on a few days.

They did indeed.

Also been on a couple of 2+3 GWR HSTs too. And there's the 2+4 SR HSTs as well of course, to get slightly back on topic. Though mentioning HSTs in this context is bound to open that can of worms...

 

[Deepgreen]

Believe the problem is adhesion, one of the problem areas is around Ranoch Station because their are insufficient trains on the line the railhead doesn't get conditioned. Its not unheard of for class 156s to come to grief either.

Wow - a four coach train should not provide adhesion problems, or if it does it should have been foreseen with the 73 project, and they should have used a Co-Co design.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2022 ==

GWR will want to know why you hate their shortened HSTs!

CS are not so unusual in this. I think GA even ran 2x37s to push-pull 2 Mk2s on a few days.

Those formations are inherently inefficient - effectlvely towing around an unnecessary second loco for operational reasons, i.e. a cab at both ends. The CS example doesn't even do that - it has two locos at one end when one, of an appropriate design, should be easily sufficient for four coaches, in all conditions. I suspect a small fleet of re-engined 37s taken up to, say, 2,000hp to provide ample hotel and traction power for four coaches might have been better, being Co-Co and well-proven on the line.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Wow - a four coach train should not provide adhesion problems, or if it does it should have been foreseen with the 73 project, and they should have used a Co-Co design.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2022 ==


Those formations are inherently inefficient - effectlvely towing around an unnecessary second loco for operational reasons, i.e. a cab at both ends. The CS example doesn't even do that - it has two locos at one end when one, of an appropriate design, should be easily sufficient for four coaches, in all conditions. I suspect a small fleet of re-engined 37s taken up to, say, 2,000hp to provide ample hotel and traction power for four coaches might have been better, being Co-Co and well-proven on the line.

The 67's are Bo-Bo and their
performance on the sleeper was satisfactory. I suspect there is a little bit more to it with the performance issues than meets the eye.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The 67's are Bo-Bo and their
performance on the sleeper was satisfactory. I suspect there is a little bit more to it with the performance issues than meets the eye.

Are the 73/9s fitted with sanders? - which should help unless of course supplies have been exhausted on the many gradients further south.

 

[superalbs]

Might the special announcement be Seatfrog implementation?

 

[The Planner]

Someone has already got it, but for good reasons I am not saying who or what! Its a bit more than perceived window dressing though.

 

[TimboM]

Wow - a four coach train should not provide adhesion problems, or if it does it should have been foreseen with the 73 project, and they should have used a Co-Co design.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2022 ==


Those formations are inherently inefficient - effectlvely towing around an unnecessary second loco for operational reasons, i.e. a cab at both ends. The CS example doesn't even do that - it has two locos at one end when one, of an appropriate design, should be easily sufficient for four coaches, in all conditions. I suspect a small fleet of re-engined 37s taken up to, say, 2,000hp to provide ample hotel and traction power for four coaches might have been better, being Co-Co and well-proven on the line.

It's not due to adhesion.

73/9s are "of an appropriate design" and have been proven to be more than capable of hauling sizeable trains on the North of Edinburgh routes in all sorts of conditions. Solo 73/9s regularly hauled Load 6 formations on the Fort Bill, and on a number of occasions when there's been an issue with one of the 73/9s on the Inverness pair, the other 73/9 has hauled its dead mate and a Load 8 to Inverness without anyone noticing.

On one occasion a solo 73/9 hauled a Load 8 portion and 2x DIT Class 92s, which is the equivalent of a Load 14 train. So the 1,600 hp Bo-Bo is more than adequate for the usual Load 4-6 on the Fort Bill / Aberdeen portions (and indeed it's almost always a solo 73/9 on the Aberdeen still).

The reason(s) the 66s are used is somewhat more complex, but it's not my place to share the exact ins and outs of why they're used.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2022 ==

Are the 73/9s fitted with sanders? - which should help unless of course supplies have been exhausted on the many gradients further south.

Yes they are and the sand doesn't generally run out as its filled up prior to every run.

As above, adhesion isn't a major issue.

 

[BRX]

I see they've put up a new promo video on youtube. No clues about what the "exciting" announcement is though.

A shame the video doesn't make more of the experience of waking up in the mountains of the highlands, instead just showing some generic rolling green fields landscape.

 

[ashkeba]

A shame the video doesn't make more of the experience of waking up in the mountains of the highlands, instead just showing some generic rolling green fields landscape.

Probably couldn't afford the price of a sleeper ticket to the Highlands these days!

 

[185143]

Probably couldn't afford the price of a sleeper ticket to the Highlands these days!

And less than half of CS passengers will actually wake up in the Highlands!

 

[miami]

And less than half of CS passengers will actually wake up in the Highlands!

The lady in the video had a ticket to Fort William

 

[Bletchleyite]

The lady in the video had a ticket to Fort William

Did anyone work out where it actually was? I first thought it was the south WCML, which is very much rolling hills (and in my view an unsung scenic route), but the helicopter/drone shot looks more like the run into Edinburgh with the wires airbrushed out. May well be two different places!

Perhaps the drone view was somewhere on the Highland Mainline before it gets properly hilly, or towards Aberdeen? There being a 73 on the front fits that.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Do we know what the big announcement is yet? By my reckoning we are well into March the 7th and and other than that promotional video I've not become aware of anything groundbreaking the different.

 

[MacCookie]

Did anyone work out where it actually was? I first thought it was the south WCML, which is very much rolling hills (and in my view an unsung scenic route), but the helicopter/drone shot looks more like the run into Edinburgh with the wires airbrushed out. May well be two different places!

Perhaps the drone view was somewhere on the Highland Mainline before it gets properly hilly, or towards Aberdeen? There being a 73 on the front fits that.

The first aerial clip is at Farmhall in Strathearn, heading south.

The second aerial clip is approaching Kinbuck with the Allan Water on the right, heading south again.

Cheers,
Ewan

 

[JonathanH]

Do we know what the big announcement is yet? By my reckoning we are well into March the 7th and and other than that promotional video I've not become aware of anything groundbreaking the different.

Is the advertising campaign the big announcement?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is the advertising campaign the big announcement?

If it is then that's a bit rubbish!

 

[BRX]

The first aerial clip is at Farmhall in Strathearn, heading south.

The second aerial clip is approaching Kinbuck with the Allan Water on the right, heading south again.

Cheers,
Ewan

Same bit of line stands in for the approach to London in a previous video...

 

[Techniquest]

I haven't watched the video, but if that's all the big news was, that a new advert video is out, then woop de doo!

Let's hope it's more than that, and that the news is actually just a bit delayed.

 

[PG]

Let's hope it's more than that, and that the news is actually just a bit delayed.

Well that's kind of on-form for the sleeper...

 

[Bill57p9]

Despite having a ticket to Fort William, the lady is shown holding a Lowlander menu. Obviously the Highlander was cancelled again that night and she was sent to Glasgow instead. (It was daylight so likely not a 0415 wake-up call at Waverley).