Through GWR Bedwyns to be axed from May 2022

[nw1]

I don't know when through services between London and Bedwyn came in, but they were there in 1996, so quite a while. Granted Bedwyn itself is pretty small, but Hungerford is a reasonable sized town.Probably the spiralling costs of GWML electrification more than anything else.

That does seem a bit crazy though given that, in the scheme of things, Newbury to Bedwyn is tiny compared to the rest of the GW electrification, so surely the percentage increase in total cost would be presumably very small indeed. You have a long-standing through service from London, surely the logical thing is to electrify the whole of the route covered by the service rather than electrifying part of it and making the route dependent on the availability of IETs which arguably are better deployed elsewhere (and which has led to the very problem under discussion)?

It would have been a natural fit for the same 387 pool which does all the other Thames Valley locals and semi-fasts.

The lack of electrification to Oxford is easier to justify as a high proportion of services to Oxford carry on from there onto non-electrified track.

 

[Horizon22]

That does seem a bit crazy though given that, in the scheme of things, Newbury to Bedwyn is tiny compared to the rest of the GW electrification, so surely the percentage increase in total cost would be presumably very small indeed. You have a long-standing through service from London, surely the logical thing is to electrify the whole of the route covered by the service rather than electrifying part of it and making the route dependent on the availability of IETs which arguably are better deployed elsewhere?

It would have been a natural fit for the same 387 pool which does all the other Thames Valley locals and semi-fasts.

The lack of electrification to Oxford is easier to justify as a high proportion of services to Oxford carry on from there onto non-electrified track.

Well the whole GWML electification programme ended up "a bit crazy" in the end and has been stopped at some rather arbitrary points as opposed to those which are operationally convenient for both the company and passengers.

 

[Mag_seven]

So the IETs will now officially operate a non London route since the service is now cut back to Newbury with 387s.

No - the Newbury to Bedwyn shuttle service will be operated by turbos.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

No - the Newbury to Bedwyn shuttle service will be operated by turbos.

They may end up doing so however, if any are deployed onto the Cardiff-Penzance axis.

 

[YSTrains]

No - the Newbury to Bedwyn shuttle service will be operated by turbos.

Sorry I wasn't being clear.
London to Newbury will be 387s
Newbury to Bedwyn will be 165s

 

[Taunton]

avoids the issue of diesel running under wires east of Newbury, as well as providing those west of there with much better quality connections to London.

Unfortunately, the railway doesn't do connections any more. When the timetable says it's time to go, you go, regardless that the bulk of your passengers are just running in on the adjacent platform. Remember when connecting times were shown in the timetable in italic type? Those have gone too. The only important thing nowadays is reporting to the DfT the percentage of your trains on time, and getting as high up the league table as possible so you can thumb your nose at colleagues at the Golden Whistles. The convenience of the paying customers, or otherwise, is irrelevant.

In passing, I've never understood how it seems not important that an incoming train is regularly late, down to the railways' own regulation etc, but somehow is desperately important for the outgoing train to leave on time to the second. If the same effort was made for the incoming train to be on time to the second, it wouldn't be an issue. But it's not.

 

[JonathanH]

What is the "why" on electrification not being extended to Bedwyn incidentally? I do seem to recall there was some infrastructure-related reason to do with the siding, is this correct?

There are quite a few overbridges between Newbury and Bedwyn which I would imagine have low clearance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are quite a few overbridges between Newbury and Bedwyn which I would imagine have low clearance.

Bedwyn is an utterly arbitrary terminus in the middle of a field. In many ways it's actually amazing, being on a mainline, Beeching didn't shut it. (You can put Cheddington in that bracket, too, FWIW )

Is it actually a problem if those who drive there do so to Newbury instead? It's not much further from Marlborough, for example - I'm struggling to find many other places!

Hungerford (which is bigger) does lose, though.

 

[nw1]

I guess one alternative might be to call the semi-fast London to Exeter IETs at Hungerford at least, to at least maintain through services from there?

Given the whole raison-d-etre of the semi-fast Exeter IETs is to provide a service from London and Reading to the smaller towns en route, that could make sense.

Incidentally, is the London-Newbury short in the hour the IET doesn't run, still planned to run? So will there still be 2tph London to Newbury (1 IET, 3 387, in a two-hour period) when these changes kick in?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Bedwyn is an utterly arbitrary terminus in the middle of a field. In many ways it's actually amazing, being on a mainline, Beeching didn't shut it. (You can put Cheddington in that bracket, too, FWIW )

Is it actually a problem if those who drive there do so to Newbury instead? It's not much further from Marlborough, for example - I'm struggling to find many other places!

Hungerford (which is bigger) does lose, though.

Bedwyn is traditionally the railhead for Marlborough, which presumably explains why Beeching didn’t shut it, given the demographic and it’s traditional voting patterns?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2022 ==

I guess one alternative might be to call the semi-fast London to Exeter IETs at Hungerford at least, to at least maintain through services from there?

Given the whole raison-d-etre of the semi-fast Exeter IETs is to provide a service from London and Reading to the smaller towns en route, that could make sense.

Incidentally, is the London-Newbury short in the hour the IET doesn't run, still planned to run? So will there still be 2tph London to Newbury (1 IET, 3 387, in a two-hour period) when these changes kick in?

I would anticipate that certain selected Hungerford calls might be reintroduced, if the timetable permits.

The ‘extra Newbury’ in the opposite hours to the B&H semi-fast IET has never run to my knowledge and I suspect it won’t be starting any time soon.

 

[Deepgreen]

Will there be enough Turbos left at Reading when most go to Bristol after the 769s come into service? I suppose it’ll have to be run by one of the small pool left for Greenford, Marlow and Didcot Oxford.

IF the 769s enter service at all - serious doubts are emerging. What a mess.

 

[py_megapixel]

Sorry I wasn't being clear.
London to Newbury will be 387s
Newbury to Bedwyn will be 165s

I don't think that has anything to do with IETs operating a non-London route though.

 

[Horizon22]

Bedwyn is traditionally the railhead for Marlborough, which presumably explains why Beeching didn’t shut it, given the demographic and it’s traditional voting patterns?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2022 ==



I would anticipate that certain selected Hungerford calls might be reintroduced, if the timetable permits.

The ‘extra Newbury’ in the opposite hours to the B&H semi-fast IET has never run to my knowledge and I suspect it won’t be starting any time soon.

It did briefly run, but the Dec 19 timetable didn't last very long of course. They lasted as long as the first introduction of the Bristol "superfasts" There was for a short period in the summer Paddington - Newbury services calling at Reading only.

The Newbury 387 services have taken all the stops that IETs used to do to Bedwyn (i.e Theale & Thatcham). As others have said, Hungerford is the biggest loser.

 

[nw1]

It did briefly run, but the Dec 19 timetable didn't last very long of course. They lasted as long as the first introduction of the Bristol "superfasts" There was for a short period in the summer Paddington - Newbury services calling at Reading only.

Yes, that's what I was referring to : something like xx37 off Paddington. I looked at the initial electrification timetable in quite a bit of detail so remember this clearly, but lost interest with the temporary Covid timetables so don't really know what's happened since.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, that's what I was referring to : something like xx37 off Paddington. I looked at the initial electrification timetable in quite a bit of detail so remember this clearly, but lost interest with the temporary Covid timetables so don't really know what's happened since.

Yeah the xx07 are Newbury (and still a few Bedwyn services), the xx37(ish) are the semi-fasts every 1tp2h, but the other side hasn't been refilled (excluding peak times).

 

[317362]

Electrification through to Bedwyn was rejected as not needed due to the bimode 800s..

 

[swt_passenger]

Electrification through to Bedwyn was rejected as not needed due to the bimode 800s..

I think it‘s more that sufficient bi-modes were eventually ordered to overcome the original decision to have a DMU shuttle Newbury to Bedwyn. The 2015 GWR franchise brief stated that Newbury to Bedwyn would reduce to an hourly shuttle from May 2017, with only a few calls at Bedwyn by through services. The extra IEPs came a bit later.

IIRC unlike the various branches, or Oxford, Bedwyn wiring never appeared in the enhancement plans so was never actually cancelled.

 

[Revilo]

They may end up doing so however, if any are deployed onto the Cardiff-Penzance axis.

It would be good if they did, because it would give the trains first class.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It would be good if they did, because it would give the trains first class.

Yes full of oiks with STD tickets going a couple of stops.

 

[Revilo]

Yes full of oiks with STD tickets going a couple of stops.

They don’t even have standard tickets between Highbridge and Bridgwater!

 

[warwickshire]

So Banbury, which already has a perfectly adequate service to London, is to get another one and the Bedwyn line loses its London service as a result?

I thought the railways were being run less in this 'naked competition' way these days, with the DFT more in control?


Also, I don't know when through services between London and Bedwyn came in, but they were there in 1996, so quite a while. Granted Bedwyn itself is pretty small, but Hungerford is a reasonable sized town. I think electrification to Bedwyn has been discussed before (which would have been the natural solution, as it wouldn't then need bi-modes, any electric stock could have covered it) but there were reasons it couldn't be done, something to do with the siding at Bedwyn?

Apparently just 5 car IETS replacing the turbos on the banbury oxford didcot Parkway circuit ie 5 car IET to replace a 165 diagramm on that circuit. Apparently plans from December 2022. For turbos to be 5 car Iet
Disclaimer pure speculation unless like in the early nineties when the 165 166 turbos split at oxford one portion oxford the other banbury etc.
With every two hours possible from 2023 etc 10 car jet to oxford then 5 on Worcester and other 5 banbury every 2 hours. But speculation only.
However work is being done notably at tackley ready for IETS calling there. And guards have been route learning banbury.
Ie correction from December 2022. For turbos on that route didcot Parkway to banbury to be fully more or less replaced by a five car IET.

 

[nw1]

Electrification through to Bedwyn was rejected as not needed due to the bimode 800s..

.. and now there aren't enough 800s to cover it, it seems.

A shame that the Dec 2019 timetable (in general) didn't survive, it looked a real step forward for the GWML. But of course the same story has been repeated across the whole of the country.

Also a shame to see the Bedwyns not surviving from a rail-enthusiast point of view too. Both pre- and post-electrification, there was something quite pleasing about joining a fast-ish service from London which terminated in a small Wiltshire village (I actually used Bedwyn on two occasions to go walking in the area). Rather like the aesthetic of joining and leaving trains at bucolic and unspoilt Ockley. I realise this isn't a rational argument on its own for providing the service, but it's still a shame.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Could the Reading - Newbury all stations shuttle be extended to Bedwyn and operated using Class 769s? It would require more units but avoids the issue of diesel running under wires east of Newbury, as well as providing those west of there with much better quality connections to London.

The existing Paddington - Bedwyn service could then be cut back to Newbury and operated using Class 387s.

Excellent idea as that will free up some more 387's to use on the Cardiffs and they can spare some more IETs to go down West to get rid of Castles anythings on the table now with the DofT!

 

[317362]

.. and now there aren't enough 800s to cover it, it seems.

A shame that the Dec 2019 timetable (in general) didn't survive, it looked a real step forward for the GWML. But of course the same story has been repeated across the whole of the country.

Also a shame to see the Bedwyns not surviving from a rail-enthusiast point of view too. Both pre- and post-electrification, there was something quite pleasing about joining a fast-ish service from London which terminated in a small Wiltshire village (I actually used Bedwyn on two occasions to go walking in the area). Rather like the aesthetic of joining and leaving trains at bucolic and unspoilt Ockley. I realise this isn't a rational argument on its own for providing the service, but it's still a shame.

Yep, just a shame that 'we don't need to electrify, we have bi-modes' has now been trumped by 'we don't have bi-modes, tough'. Answer all along was: electrify or make a solid go of a Reading-Westbury 'local'. They've done neither, we get a 4 station 'branchline'. Next step..

 

[JonathanH]

Answer all along was: electrify or make a solid go of a Reading-Westbury 'local'.

A sure bet to lose money and need subsidy I'd imagine.

 

[317362]

A sure bet to lose money and need subsidy I'd imagine.

Quite possibly and as with original post, hardly unique!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Ie correction from December 2022. For turbos on that route didcot Parkway to banbury to be fully more or less replaced by a five car IET.

That’s definitely not happening!
Oxford to Banbury remains turbos.

 

[Horizon22]

That’s definitely not happening!
Oxford to Banbury remains turbos.

Nor would Worcester / Hereford be going down to 1tp2h or indeed splitting at Oxford. Splitting at Oxford does have some merit though, as the train often really empties out at Oxford, but that just adds operational complexity.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Nor would Worcester / Hereford be going down to 1tp2h or indeed splitting at Oxford. Splitting at Oxford does have some merit though, as the train often really empties out at Oxford, but that just adds operational complexity.

Cotswold Line off-peak services have been remarkably resilient. Peak services are significantly down, but off-peak is, if anything, busier than it was pre-Covid.

 

[nanstallon]

Unfortunately, the railway doesn't do connections any more. When the timetable says it's time to go, you go, regardless that the bulk of your passengers are just running in on the adjacent platform. Remember when connecting times were shown in the timetable in italic type? Those have gone too. The only important thing nowadays is reporting to the DfT the percentage of your trains on time, and getting as high up the league table as possible so you can thumb your nose at colleagues at the Golden Whistles. The convenience of the paying customers, or otherwise, is irrelevant.

In passing, I've never understood how it seems not important that an incoming train is regularly late, down to the railways' own regulation etc, but somehow is desperately important for the outgoing train to leave on time to the second. If the same effort was made for the incoming train to be on time to the second, it wouldn't be an issue. But it's not.

Yes, the refusal to keep connections is the worst aspect of the privatisation in the 90s. Like Ryanair, train services are point to point. Penryn is my nearest station, on the Falmouth branch, but I now go to Redruth on the main line and catch the train there, rather than rely on the branch train making the connection at Truro.