Northern 150's

[Grumpy Git]

I tried to post on a thread I started some time ago after travelling on GWR's 150's between Exeter and Paignton, but it has been locked.

Today, I travelled from Coryton to Ninian Park and back on TFW's 150's for the first time. As with GWR, they really are nice trains (and have similar 2+2 set-up).

So I ask again, why are all the Northern 150 units a pile of crap, (and filthy to boot)?

 

[AlastairFraser]

I tried to post on a thread I started some time ago after travelling on GWR's 150's between Exeter and Paignton, but it has been locked.

Today, I travelled from Coryton to Ninian Park and back on TFW's 150's for the first time. As with GWR, they really are nice trains (and have similar 2+2 set-up).

So I ask again, why are all the Northern 150 units a pile of crap, (and filthy to boot)?

Not all of them are bad. Some got fully refurbished with new seat covers, WiFi, info screens and USB charging ports. Some just got the WiFi, info screens and USB, but I believe the full Class 150 refurbishment program was halted, due to stock availability issues and stock is being sent off gradually just for the USB/info screens/WiFi, while they work out how/when they can shuffle stock around for the new seat covers and more cosmetic refurbishments.

 

[387star]

I tried to post on a thread I started some time ago after travelling on GWR's 150's between Exeter and Paignton, but it has been locked.

Today, I travelled from Coryton to Ninian Park and back on TFW's 150's for the first time. As with GWR, they really are nice trains (and have similar 2+2 set-up).

So I ask again, why are all the Northern 150 units a pile of crap, (and filthy to boot)?

The ex FNW ones have Chapman seats but in a high density style without tables
The ex ATN and transferred London Midland examples plus 001/002 were never refurbished with new seating and retain the awful as built interiors

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I do think that a more comprehensive refurbishment for the Northern 150s would have been worthwhile. Something as simple as removing the third seat in the centre sections, or switching the airline "3s" to a facing layout rather than airline, would have massively improved the environment on board.

 

[Efini92]

I tried to post on a thread I started some time ago after travelling on GWR's 150's between Exeter and Paignton, but it has been locked.

Today, I travelled from Coryton to Ninian Park and back on TFW's 150's for the first time. As with GWR, they really are nice trains (and have similar 2+2 set-up).

So I ask again, why are all the Northern 150 units a pile of crap, (and filthy to boot)?

Northern won’t pay to upgrade them.
When they first got the ex London midland 150’s they had air conditioning in the cabs, which was a luxury for northern’s fleet (158’s had it but it never worked). They put out a traction bulletin basically saying enjoy it whilst it works as we won’t be maintaining it once it fails.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The NWT/FNW refurb was the most comprehensive they got.

 

[Liverpool 507]

I tried to post on a thread I started some time ago after travelling on GWR's 150's between Exeter and Paignton, but it has been locked.

Today, I travelled from Coryton to Ninian Park and back on TFW's 150's for the first time. As with GWR, they really are nice trains (and have similar 2+2 set-up).

So I ask again, why are all the Northern 150 units a pile of crap, (and filthy to boot)?

Don't forget as well, 150202, 150207 and 150216 retain their as built layouts (with the exception of the Chapman seating in 207).

 

[Andyh82]

It’s the as built interiors that makes the ex-ATN Northern ones seem much worse than anyone else’s

Even with electronic screens, new seat covers, full interior repaints and USB sockets, you can’t get away from the terrible mid 80s seats and seating configuration

If they are insisting on keeping them long term, what would people here have thought about them replacing the seats with the same ones as in the 195s/refurbished 158s in a 2+2 formation? Yes dubious cushion thickness, but you wouldn’t be either crammed in, nor sat practically on the floor, and they also have seat back tables.

 

[Sprinter107]

Northern won’t pay to upgrade them.
When they first got the ex London midland 150’s they had air conditioning in the cabs, which was a luxury for northern’s fleet (158’s had it but it never worked). They put out a traction bulletin basically saying enjoy it whilst it works as we won’t be maintaining it once it fails.

When did the ex LM 150s have cab air conditioning? Certainly not when they were at Tyseley.

 

[Class455]

Northern won’t pay to upgrade them.
When they first got the ex London midland 150’s they had air conditioning in the cabs, which was a luxury for northern’s fleet (158’s had it but it never worked). They put out a traction bulletin basically saying enjoy it whilst it works as we won’t be maintaining it once it fails.

And they especially won’t now as they’ll probably be gone in the next 5 years.
I think the 150’s could have really benefited from an internal refurb on a similar scale to what the Class 455’s have had, which are broadly similar to 150’s build wise. SWR’s 455’s make great use of their seating configurations and maximise available space in the vestibule area, whereas being on a Northern 150 just feels cramped and uncomfortable. I can understand why some people who live on routes served by the 150’s hate using them. Some Northern 150’s also have an unacceptable amount of legroom in the airline seats towards the rear of the DMS, how was this allowed to continue? Even the 150’s latest refurbishment could have been so much better
It’s a shame that there was very little investment put into these units especially as there’s so much potential to make them better, but as we know governments have been unwilling to invest money in the north’s transport network for a while.

 

[Neptune]

When did the ex LM 150s have cab air conditioning? Certainly not when they were at Tyseley.

It’s the ex GWR ones which were at LM before. Assuming GWR fitted the a/c. If I remember the ex GWR 153’s which ended up in Scotland had it too.

 

[skyhigh]

Not all of them are bad. Some got fully refurbished with new seat covers, WiFi, info screens and USB charging ports. Some just got the WiFi, info screens and USB, but I believe the full Class 150 refurbishment program was halted, due to stock availability issues and stock is being sent off gradually just for the USB/info screens/WiFi, while they work out how/when they can shuffle stock around for the new seat covers and more cosmetic refurbishments.

Not quite. They've all had the cosmetic and accessibility work now, and they're gradually going through USB/WiFi work (digital train mods).

None of the fleet ever had digital train mods before the cosmetic work.

 

[yorksrob]

I do think that a more comprehensive refurbishment for the Northern 150s would have been worthwhile. Something as simple as removing the third seat in the centre sections, or switching the airline "3s" to a facing layout rather than airline, would have massively improved the environment on board.

Absolutely. Even using the same seats, you could have rearranged then to something more akin to the layout of the 333's. 3+2 airline seating is as pointless as a 158 hand dryer, yet in spite of a million pound refurbishment, we're still stuck with both.

Some small wall tables for drinks etc would have gone a long way to making them fit for purpose as well.

On the plus side, the 150's are looking more spruced up with the new moquette

 

[Efini92]

And they especially won’t now as they’ll probably be gone in the next 5 years.
I think the 150’s could have really benefited from an internal refurb on a similar scale to what the Class 455’s have had, which are broadly similar to 150’s build wise. SWR’s 455’s make great use of their seating configurations and maximise available space in the vestibule area, whereas being on a Northern 150 just feels cramped and uncomfortable. I can understand why some people who live on routes served by the 150’s hate using them. Some Northern 150’s also have an unacceptable amount of legroom in the airline seats towards the rear of the DMS, how was this allowed to continue? Even the 150’s latest refurbishment could have been so much better
It’s a shame that there was very little investment put into these units especially as there’s so much potential to make them better, but as we know governments have been unwilling to invest money in the north’s transport network for a while.

I agree it is a shame. The metro style doors suit the commuter train much better than the 156 and 158.
Is the DMS the 57 car? I’ve never heard that terminology used on the second generation dmu’s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Mar 2022 ==

When did the ex LM 150s have cab air conditioning? Certainly not when they were at Tyseley.

Sorry It might have been the ex GWR, we got that many from all over the show it was hard to keep up.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Not quite. They've all had the cosmetic and accessibility work now, and they're gradually going through USB/WiFi work (digital train mods).

None of the fleet ever had digital train mods before the cosmetic work.

How come several sets had different new seat covers to some of the other refurbed sets? Some of them are of a thicker stuffed cushion type material and some of a thinner fabric material.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The last time I "sat" on a Northern 150 I almost needed a winch to get me back out of the seat. I've sat higher-up in a sportscar.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

How come several sets had different new seat covers to some of the other refurbed sets? Some of them are of a thicker stuffed cushion type material and some of a thinner fabric material.

Northern used flat cloth on all the early refurbishments (as well as on the new units) until they saw the error of their ways and switched to moquette. Not all of those early units have yet been back in to have the seats recovered.

 

[skyhigh]

How come several sets had different new seat covers to some of the other refurbed sets? Some of them are of a thicker stuffed cushion type material and some of a thinner fabric material.

There was the full cosmetic and PRM refurb (repaint internal and external, new flat cloth seat covers, new flooring, accessible toilet, corrosion treatment) that 100% of units have received.

Separately (and starting later than the above) they are going through digital train mods which include USB sockets, CCTV, new digital advert screens, passenger counting equipment and some minor modifications in the cab for future upgrades. This is around 50% complete.

Reasonably recently they have decided to replace the flat cloth covers with moquette ones. I believe all 150s are now done, but this is a fairly minor change and has little to do with the original refurbishment which all units have gone through already.

 

[geoffk]

My first trip on a 150 was from Droitwich to Worcester in 1986. They were an improvement then on run-down first generation dmus of course but since then have been hammered up and down the line for 35 years. I used the Northern fleet a lot until recently and have since found GWR examples much more comfortable, largely because of the 2+2 seats. Not sure though about "all gone in the next five years". TfW's will be no doubt, provided there's no major delay to the new fleet coming into service.

 

[Halish Railway]

Not sure though about "all gone in the next five years". TfW's will be no doubt, provided there's no major delay to the new fleet coming into service.

I think that a lot of speculation about Northern’s 150s going is based off of an MRTF document saying that one of their ambitions was to start a tender for new rolling stock to replace some of Northern’s legacy DMUs in 2022/2023.

 

[Pacco]

On my local line I have used a 150 with USB and many of them were not working. Having to hop around to get a charge.

We generally get four car units on my local line. From a personal perspective, when I get a pair of 150s I am always disappointed when it's a pair of 150s, sometimes we get a 150+156 and I make straight for the 156. Normally get a table and a view. Much more pleasant.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Northern used flat cloth on all the early refurbishments (as well as on the new units) until they saw the error of their ways and switched to moquette. Not all of those early units have yet been back in to have the seats recovered.

Personally I prefer the flat cloth, the seats look more modern and clean in general, albeit quite thin and unsupported. Thanks to youse and @skyhigh for the explanation.

 

[yorksrob]

Personally I prefer the flat cloth, the seats look more modern and clean in general, albeit quite thin and unsupported. Thanks to youse and @skyhigh for the explanation.

You haven't seen the flat cloth seats that I have. They generally look filthy.

 

[AlastairFraser]

You haven't seen the flat cloth seats that I have. They generally look filthy.

I don't see them that frequently, so you're probably right. But it's clearly not been an effective refurbishment as I've still ended up on the floor after a moquette seat cushion has gone walkies post refurbishment after some heavy braking. The thin cushions have never done that to me!

 

[yorksrob]

I don't see them that frequently, so you're probably right. But it's clearly not been an effective refurbishment as I've still ended up on the floor after a moquette seat cushion has gone walkies post refurbishment after some heavy braking. The thin cushions have never done that to me!

That's more about the seat design than the covering to be honest, although I admit that that late era of BR seat has a tenancy for bits to fall off (refurbished CEP's, I mean you !)

 

[Gaz55]

Don't the GWR and TFW 150s have 3 pin sockets as well as USB ports. I know there is a cost element involved, but it just smacks of penny pinching that Northern's 150s arent' similarly equipped.

 

[150249]

Don't forget as well, 150202, 150207 and 150216 retain their as built layouts (with the exception of the Chapman seating in 207).

A few months ago, I travelled from Penzance to Exeter on 150207 + 150249. Initially, I got on 150207 but I couldn't stand the train. The seats were dreadful, the layout was terrible and the train felt like it was falling apart. I moved onto 150249 about half an hour into the journey and it was generally more comfortable, smelt better and was quieter (part of the reason that it is my favourite train). What did Northern do with 150207?

 

[Grumpy Git]

Don't the GWR and TFW 150s have 3 pin sockets as well as USB ports. I know there is a cost element involved, but it just smacks of penny pinching that Northern's 150s arent' similarly equipped.

The TFW ones have a 13A socket at every pair of seats. I'm not sure about the GWR ones?

 

[AlastairFraser]

That's more about the seat design than the covering to be honest, although I admit that that late era of BR seat has a tenancy for bits to fall off (refurbished CEP's, I mean you !)

Perhaps, but the seat fabric tends to be tighter on the thinner design, partly the seat design yes, but partly because the the heavy padding and seat fixing is not fit for purpose. Should be replaced the seats to those at the time.
I never saw it happen on the Thames Turbos which I grew up using, so I'm more inclined to think it's differing maintenance standards and age that caused the problems.

 

[geoffk]

What did Northern do with 150207?

Didn't they swap it for 209, the hybrid unit with no toilet, which they've now used to convert two 150/1s to three-car units?