Russia invades Ukraine

[najaB]

Erm, I think you will find that they did in fact invade Kazakhstan only the other month, apparently at the behest of KZ's own dictator.

Not *quite* the same thing as they were "invited" into the country.

As for how I felt, my reaction was of grave disappointment that democracy was being stamped out somewhere else.

Same here. Though, I don't think the regime there has that many years left in it.

 

[Ediswan]

agreed - however the smoke seemed to be coming out of the side not the top.

Do you have a link ? All I could find was a plume of smoke, with the source over the horizon.

 

[Gostav]

As for how I felt, my reaction was of grave disappointment that democracy was being stamped out somewhere else.

I think China's experience with how thoroughly the "opposition" in Xinjiang and Hong Kong has been crushed shows that simply relying on the support of Western NGOs to subvert the government no longer works. In the past few days, people have imagined that hackers, information warfare, NGOs, and demonstrations can overthrow the Putin regime, but in fact, they have already taken precautions against this because these tactics have been used countless times by the West.

 

[tommy2215]

The United Nations General Assembly has just voted to demand the withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine. Only 4 countries out of 193 members voted with Russia to oppose the resolution. Non-binding so doesn't mean anything but very interesting to see that North Korea, Belarus, Syria and Eritrea (of all countries!) are the only countries that back Russia in their invasion.

 

[TheEdge]

The United Nations General Assembly has just voted to demand the withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine. Only 4 countries out of 193 members voted with Russia to oppose the resolution. Non-binding so doesn't mean anything but very interesting to see that North Korea, Belarus, Syria and Eritrea (of all countries!) are the only countries that back Russia in their invasion.

China vote or abstain?

 

[DarloRich]

China vote or abstain?

Abstained

 

[Trackman]

Abstained

beat me to it. Reuters:

Thirty-five members including China abstained and five countries including Russia, Syria and Belarus voted against the resolution. While General Assembly resolutions are non-binding, they carry political weight.

 

[DustyBin]

Abstained

As good a result as you could hope for really - they'll be keeping their powder dry I'm sure.

 

[TheEdge]

It is really, thats as loud as Beijing will publically be.

BBC reporting...

Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said earlier on Wednesday that Moscow remains committed to the "demilitarisation" of Ukraine and added there should be a list of specified weapons that can never be deployed on Ukrainian territory.

But he said that Vladimir Putin's regime recognised the Ukrainian people's right to chose their own leader and that Russia accepts Volodymyr Zelensky as the legitimate president.

Does that sound like the Russian's are looking for an out?

 

[Cowley]

It is really, thats as loud as Beijing will publically be.

BBC reporting...


Does that sound like the Russian's are looking for an out?

Interesting…

 

[Peterthegreat]

It is really, thats as loud as Beijing will publically be.

BBC reporting...


Does that sound like the Russian's are looking for an out?

If it is genuine I would agree. Regardless of what people think of Putins actions it is imperative the current situation is deescalated. Too many people getting killed (on all sides) and with the risk of worse to come.

 

[brad465]

EA have removed all Russian teams from Fifa 22. On its own, this move is pointless in deterring Russia and is a very small act overall. But in the grand scheme of things, this is one of a growing list of examples of how much corporations and the general population are determined to actually make a pariah of Russia, on top of things like Russian performers' shows being cancelled, and in the world of corporations a number of them are selling off/disposing of shares linked to Russia, and voluntarily shunning Russian oil, despite making the overall price of it go up by doing so.

In short, Russia is becoming as much a pariah as North Korea or Iran at this rate.

 

[YorkshireBear]

If it is genuine I would agree. Regardless of what people think of Putins actions it is imperative the current situation is deescalated. Too many people getting killed (on all sides) and with the risk of worse to come.

Agreed. I have just come to this thread after reading this in BBC and thinking, god that is a change of tone!

 

[tommy2215]

It is really, thats as loud as Beijing will publically be.

BBC reporting...


Does that sound like the Russian's are looking for an out?

Russia accepts Zelensky as the legitimate President since they repeatedly failed to assassinate him and their invasion plan has gone wrong in just about every way possible is what Lavrov means to say.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

With the exception of their oil and gas still being imported somewhat, I think the West is more or less doing everything it can reasonably do for now, even if some action is belated.

EDIT: It turns out a lot of "self-sanctioning" is going on, with Russian crude being shunned:

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on.ft.com

This does create a delicious irony that Putin's war has driven up oil prices, but his country isn't benefitting.

No but the rest of the globe is going to hurt and in some countries this also cause civil disorder and other conflicts if this price level becomes the norm.

Even coal has hone up a staggering 33% today to a record high of $400 because other countries looking to bolster stockpiles as gas can't easily be replaced if Russia shuts it off.

 

[DarloRich]

There is another round of peace talks tomorrow

 

[Ediswan]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but RT on Freeview channel 234 now has a screen saying "This service is currently unavailable"

Freesat was showing a blank screen and 'buffer underrun'. In the last hour or so, that has changed to the EPG showing '... currently unavailable'.

Somewhat curiously, no reports (yet) of Russia taking action against the BBC.

 

[brad465]

Abramovich is selling up:

Statement from Roman Abramovich

I would like to address the speculation in media over the past few days in relation to my ownership of Chelsea FC. As I have stated before, I have always taken decisions with the Club’s best interest at heart. In the current situation, I have therefore taken the decision to sell the Club, as I...

www.chelseafc.com

I would like to address the speculation in media over the past few days in relation to my ownership of Chelsea FC. As I have stated before, I have always taken decisions with the Club’s best interest at heart. In the current situation, I have therefore taken the decision to sell the Club, as I believe this is in the best interest of the Club, the fans, the employees, as well as the Club’s sponsors and partners.​

The sale of the Club will not be fast-tracked but will follow due process. I will not be asking for any loans to be repaid. This has never been about business nor money for me, but about pure passion for the game and Club. Moreover, I have instructed my team to set up a charitable foundation where all net proceeds from the sale will be donated. The foundation will be for the benefit of all victims of the war in Ukraine. This includes providing critical funds towards the urgent and immediate needs of victims, as well as supporting the long-term work of recovery.

Please know that this has been an incredibly difficult decision to make, and it pains me to part with the Club in this manner. However, I do believe this is in the best interest of the Club.

I hope that I will be able to visit Stamford Bridge one last time to say goodbye to all of you in person. It has been a privilege of a lifetime to be part of Chelsea FC and I am proud of all our joint achievements. Chelsea Football Club and its supporters will always be in my heart.

Thank you,

Roman

 

[DarloRich]

Do you have a link ? All I could find was a plume of smoke, with the source over the horizon.

Now seems it was a bulk carrier hit by a missile and the picture i saw was the missile firing

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder if the Ukranians regret giving up their once formidable Nuclear Arsenal ?

They were duped by Boozy Boris as we all were to an extent. Turns out to be the same old enemy with a different flag.

 

[GS250]

Slightly off-topic but the F-22 isn't a white elephant (an expensive thing that has little or no utility), it just cost too much to buy enough of them. It's not a sign of failure that the USAF are buying more F-15s as that was always going to be the day-two fighter of choice.

Same goes for the Seawolf submarines. They are technical marvels and far out-class the Los Angeles class, they're just too damned expensive for a post-Cold War world. The Virginia class are basically cheaper versions of the Seawolf - the cost reduction largely being that they are smaller and have a reduced top speed and depth capability.

Zumwalt on the other hand... unmitigated disaster from start to end.

Don't forget that all of these programs started life before the cold war ended.

Not wanting to dwell on the subject too much but you could say there are some similarities with the Typhoon. A fine aircraft, especially the RAF version. Considered a convincing second to the F22 capability wise. Overall cost though, has put a question mark on its value and certainly limited the export market.

 

[adc82140]

Russia accepts Zelensky as the legitimate President since they repeatedly failed to assassinate him and their invasion plan has gone wrong in just about every way possible is what Lavrov means to say.

Up until today Zelensly was trumpeted by Russia an illigitimate Nazi. So this is an interesting development.

So we will either see Lavrov sacked, or they are looking for an off ramp or at least some sort of de escalation. This coupled with the admission of troop losses has rather changed the Russian narrative.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I wonder if tomorrow's peace talks may herald a significant step.

It looks Russia has realised the invasion isn't going to plan, so they are probably trying to find a way out that benefits them both.

 

[Ediswan]

They were duped by Boozy Boris as we all were to an extent. Turns out to be the same old enemy with a different flag.

Boris can be blamed for all sorts of things, but he did not come to prominence until some time after Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons.

 

[adc82140]

I wonder if tomorrow's peace talks may herald a significant step.

It looks Russia has realised the invasion isn't going to plan, so they are probably trying to find a way out that benefits them both.

One compromise could be that Ukraine commits not to join NATO, but instead has security guarantees from NATO that fall short of Article 5 coverage. Putin could dress that one up as a victory.

 

[dosxuk]

Freesat was showing a blank screen and 'buffer underrun'. In the last hour or so, that has changed to the EPG showing '... currently unavailable'.

Somewhat curiously, no reports (yet) of Russia taking action against the BBC.

Taken down by the EU rather than the UK.

The BBC have re-introduced World Service radio broadcasts aimed at the Ukraine area - https://twitter.com/bbcworldservice/status/1497566267825393669 - these will be transmitted from well out of the reach of Russia.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Boris can be blamed for all sorts of things, but he did not come to prominence until some time after Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons.

I suspect the OP was referring to Boris Yeltsin.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

Boris can be blamed for all sorts of things, but he did not come to prominence until some time after Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons.

Yeltsin, not Johnson.

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect the OP was referring to Boris Yeltsin.

Indeed !

 

[Cowley]

Indeed !

It was the Boozy bit that got everyone.