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17.5% then 15% then back to 17.5% then 20%!

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transportphoto

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Hi All,

I know you probably already know this but -

This thing called Value Added Tax is set to rises to 20pc on Jan 4th - your views?
 
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Peter Mugridge

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Except on very highly priced items we probably won't really notice anything different, although I'd hazard a guess that some unscrupulous manufacturers and outlets will take the opportunity to raise prices by quite a bit more than 2.5% and put the blame on VAT.

And please don't be fooled by adverts saying "We'll cover the VAT" - the companies offering that will have already raised their prices a few months ago to more than absorb the "offer".
 

me123

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Let's get some other facts out first of all. We will still have one of the lower tax rates in Europe. At the moment, there are only a few countries (eg Luxembourg, Montenegro) that charge a lower rate than we do. And, even after the change, quite a few (eg Ireland, Iceland, Sweden) will still charge a lot more. See here. We also have an earlier tax freedom day than many other countries, despite some newspapers moaning about it being 3 days later this year.

And, just to put the actual rise into perspective, it will have little effect on any prices for day to day things. For example, a cup of coffee will only rise by a few pennies, and a weekly shop by only a few pounds. However, the cost of big things (like cars) will go up by several hundred pounds as a result of the changeover. And all in all, the pennies here and there will mean that we hand over quite a bit more in VAT (although it will be largely insensible). For example, the £100 weekly shop I mentioned earlier will rise by £2 a week, assuming all items will be subject to a 20% tax rate. Over the course of the year, that's over £100 more lost.

Here's a handy tool on the BBC website if, like me, you can't be bothered doing the maths.

The rise itself, as I've said above, I don't think is too bad. It's not something anyone wants, granted, but when you consider other VAT rates (see above) and the national (and indeed international) economic state , I don't think it's that bad. But what does annoy me is that it's only just gone up from 15% (granted that was only a temporary measure). A 5% increase is quite significant if you ask me. And I think that this cumulative effect will be noticeable, particularly on more expensive commodities.

I'm also slightly worried that the increase will mean that retailers jack their prices up again. We saw it with the 15% palaver. They "pass on the savings", then put it up to silly amounts, then round it up. So the actual effect on your weekly shop might be quite a bit more if they do this. And there's nothing to stop them rounding up £2.04 to £2.10 etc later on in the year - again there's the potential to take a lot extra with this (as I'm sure happened with last year's rise).

The thing that amuses me is the panic buying in the sales. "Get it now before the VAT goes up". The £20 DVD boxset that they're advertising is only going to go up by 40p! That's assuming they haven't already allowed for that in their pricing, which many retailers will do. Maybe I'm being just a bit paranoid, but the rise seems to be a gift to the retailers as much as it is to the exchequer, for better or for worse.
 

richw

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Except on very highly priced items we probably won't really notice anything different, although I'd hazard a guess that some unscrupulous manufacturers and outlets will take the opportunity to raise prices by quite a bit more than 2.5% and put the blame on VAT.

And please don't be fooled by adverts saying "We'll cover the VAT" - the companies offering that will have already raised their prices a few months ago to more than absorb the "offer".

surely the other way round to what you say. higher priced things we'll notice more of a difference, for example 2.5% extra of say something that costs £1 is an extra 2.5p, whereas something that is expensive say £1000, your looking at an extra £25
 

rail-britain

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2.5% extra of say something that costs £1 is an extra 2.5p, whereas something that is expensive say £1000, your looking at an extra £25
VAT is added to the cost, not the retail price
£1000 at 17.5% becomes £1021 at 20%
 

142094

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I'm just wondering by how much this will affect the petrol prices?!

In the past few weeks diesel has gone up by around 5p / litre at the Shell garages that I use. So I'm expecting another 5p or so in the New Year. Funnily enough supermarkets are now the same price as the chain petrol stations. Instead of lowering the price of milk and beer they should lower the price of petrol by a few pence.
 

Clip

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Well, on top of the VAT increase, I believe fuel duty's going up as well and there's the inevitable oil companies' Pocket Lining Premium to be added on to those.

Petrol companies hardly make anything at the pump though.
 

rail-britain

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What is the current % of the total cost of a litre that goes to the Treasury now, used to be around the 70% mark?
Yes, about 70% of each litre is tax or tax derived payments
17.5% goes directly, the rest goes to Customs & Excise which in turn goes to the Treasury
The petrol retailer receives about 1p per litre from the oil company
The oil company then takes about 0.5p per litre (but they supply all the petrol retailers in the area), excluding transportation costs

Just remember, petrol is the only commodity where you pay VAT on the VAT
 

mumrar

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Petrol companies hardly make anything at the pump though.
So where do they make it then, being as they can post profits of many billions of pounds every single year? Is it from the infiltration of foreign governments and the use of this for corruption (re the Wikileaks stuff about Shell and Nigeria)?
 

142094

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Rememebr they don't just sell petrol at the pumps - several other things from gas to petrochemicals to plastics to property will give them a good chunk of the profits.
 

me123

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And, in the case of supermarkets, the petrol is just another way to tease customers into the store, where they make the real profits.
 

starrymarkb

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Also volume! Lots and lots of litres sold add up! If a petrol station gets 50 cars per hour filling up with 50litres each that's £25 based on a 0.5p per l margin. Multiply that by the number of petrol stations in the world ;)
 

TrainBrain185

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Just to add more to the 2.5% VAT increase on Jan 4th. You can soon cough up the small change on your till receipts for Charities all in aid towards our new "Big Society".
 

142094

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BBC News had an article on it - somewhere around 0.75p increase tommorow for fuel duty then the rise in VAT. AA says it should add 3.5p onto the price of a litre. Also we are only 5-6p away from the record high price for diesel - no shock if we go over that very soon.
 

Mvann

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Most food bills won't go up due to tax, as a lot of food is zero rated. It will be the luxury food items like chocolate and sweets that will rise due to vat.
 

MikeWh

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Just remember, petrol is the only commodity where you pay VAT on the VAT

I've been pondering this one for a bit. Presumably you mean VAT on the Duty? Is this not the same with Drinks and Tobacco?
 

jon0844

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All of the 'beat the VAT increase' advertising must have been aimed at people who needed a reason to buy something they probably didn't want that much (otherwise they could have bought it before the Christmas rush). Many retailers don't cut prices, they bring in cheaper stock to sell - and make up fictitious retail prices. Even Tesco started selling Christmas decorations by saying they were half price - which is good when they were half price from day one!

Also, I do think that some people have been working out the cost of an item with the VAT increase by working out what 20% is, without considering that it was that same price + 17.5% before (assuming anyone ever looks at the ex-VAT price as a consumer). Thus, it's 2.5% extra (which is small).

Anyway, come tomorrow, the same shops (furniture retailers, double glazing etc) will switch from 'beat the VAT increase' to saying that they'll take the hit on the VAT. In a world where there are no retail prices, they can say what they damn well like - and the margins are big enough anyway.

For everything else, I am hopeful that competition will see many prices remaining the same (as items remain priced at, say, £9.99 or £14.99). Yes, some things will jump up to the next 99p, and there will be winners and losers but overall I doubt we'll see much of a difference.

The only positive is that if the company does bear the cost itself, you know you are at least contributing a bit more money to the treasury. That's if you think it deserves it, but after the last few years and the fact we're broke, for the first time I don't actually feel so aggrieved. Petrol prices excepted. :)
 

Flamingo

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It will be the luxury food items like chocolate and sweets that will rise due to vat.
What do you mean "luxury"? They are an essential food group :cake::cake::cake:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
overall I doubt we'll see much of a difference.
:)
I suppose in the same way that there was not much of a noticeable drop in prices when VAT was cut by 2.5% a few years ago.
 

jon0844

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Everyone knew it was temporary, so some retailers didn't even bother to reduce the prices (and adjusted at the till, such as M&S). Thus you didn't even notice the reduction until you paid!

To be honest, it isn't the VAT increase we need to worry about but the general increase in the price of goods for a range of other reasons. Sadly, many things we do 'need' are going up, such as bread. These increases are far higher than the 2.5% increase in VAT and would have happened anyway.
 

xtradj

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I ask, when the day will be the Gov actually does something good for us
 

Geezertronic

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I ask, when the day will be the Gov actually does something good for us

I don't have an allegiance either way but it seems to me that the last Government bankrupted us so the current Government has to do something to pull us out of the mire. The current Government have a long way to go before becoming half as bad as the last lot :|
 
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