Used staff pass for 4 days

[Jimmy92]

Hello all,

I have recently been caught using a staff pass,the letter from TFL was received after just 2 days..I have wrote the letter back to them and also included a doctors letter and journey transactions with my new oyster card to prove to them that I will not re-offend.
I had used the staff pass for only 4 days before getting stopped...I have read enough of these forums to know they will not Settle out of court but what I want to know is what will I be convicted under regulation of railways act 1889 or TFL byelaws..I have a young family so can not afford to have a conviction as my job requires regular DBS checks

 

[6Gman]

Sorry, but how did you acquire a staff pass?

 

[Jimmy92]

The staff pass was my cousins...I only planned to use to for a short but unfortunately I got caught within 4 days off using it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2021 ==

Like I said in my original post I have been reading these forum for a while..so I have excepted that they will prosecute me but under which section regulation of railways act 1889 or TFL byelaws??

 

[AlterEgo]

The staff pass was my cousins...I only planned to use to for a short but unfortunately I got caught within 4 days off using it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2021 ==

Like I said in my original post I have been reading these forum for a while..so I have excepted that they will prosecute me but under which section regulation of railways act 1889 or TFL byelaws??

It depends on the evidence they have available to them.

 

[Jimmy92]

It depends on the evidence they have available to them.

Can you please elaborate on that ?this is my first offence...ive never done anything like this before.

 

[FatContr0ller]

You'll need to let your cousin know, TFL take staff priv abuse very seriously.... They will ask him anyway as obviously all staff oysters are recorded.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2021 ==

Can you please elaborate on that ?this is my first offence...ive never done anything like this before.

Every journey you tapped in/out with is recorded, and every gateline has cctv monitoring. If you've done before, they can access and they will know about it (within reason, cctv doesn't have an infinite capacity for recording)

 

[AlterEgo]

Every journey you tapped in/out with is recorded, and every gateline has cctv monitoring. If you've done before, they can access and they will know about it (within reason, cctv doesn't have an infinite capacity for recording)

Plus also the answers to any questions the OP was asked as well as any reply they give in response to the letter they receive. Without knowing the finer details it's difficult to say, but stealing and misusing someone else's pass is, absent any compelling mitigation, a stonewall RORA offence which attracts a criminal record.

 

[Jimmy92]

Plus also the answers to any questions the OP was asked as well as any reply they give in response to the letter they receive. Without knowing the finer details it's difficult to say, but stealing and misusing someone else's pass is, absent any compelling mitigation, a stonewall RORA offence which attracts a criminal record.

I did not answer any of the question which was presented to me by the revenue officer..I gave my name and address..initially when I stopped I did try to lie and say the pass was mine..but when asked again i told them the truth that was my cousins pass I also address this in my reply from TFL stating I have history of anxiety issues(which is confirmed on my doctors letter) hence I panicked and I am sorry for being dishonest.

 

[Jimmy92]

You'll need to let your cousin know, TFL take staff priv abuse very seriously.... They will ask him anyway as obviously all staff oysters are recorded.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2021 ==


Every journey you tapped in/out with is recorded, and every gateline has cctv monitoring. If you've done before, they can access and they will know about it (within reason, cctv doesn't have an infinite capacity for recording)

I did make my cousin aware of this,I have read countless post where people have used high value pass for months and have only had a byelaw conviction..I only used the pass for 4 days..even if they check the CCTV this will be confirmed..I have wrote back to them apologising profusely and requesting if this can be settled without any legal proceedings and have made them aware of the impact a criminal
conviction will have on my job.

I did receive a reply "stating they are carrying on with the investigation "

 

[AlterEgo]

I did not answer any of the question which was presented to me by the revenue officer..I gave my name and address..initially when I stopped I did try to lie and say the pass was mine..but when asked again i told them the truth that was my cousins pass I also address this in my reply from TFL stating I have history of anxiety issues(which is confirmed on my doctors letter) hence I panicked and I am sorry for being dishonest.

OK, but anxiety does not cause dishonesty and you should be careful not try to present it in this way. You were, simply, dishonest in using the pass, firstly by using it and then also in lying to the officer who stopped you. You will also need to admit effectively stealing the pass (I assume your cousin didn’t just give it to you?) to ensure your cousin doesn't suffer consequences too. The anxiety is neither here nor there when it comes to your motivation and does not absolve you from criminal responsibility. Introducing it to suggest you personally have a lower threshold of stress to induce you to tell a lie is an unwise move, but it is done now.

The only way you can really deal with this now you have replied to their letter is by sitting and waiting for their reply. They may ask you for more details if they are unsatisfied the matter is fully investigated, or they may summons you to the magistrates’ court. Bear in mind each time you contact them, what you say forms part of the evidence they may use in court against you.

 

[Jimmy92]

OK, but anxiety does not cause dishonesty and you should be careful not try to present it in this way. You were, simply, dishonest in using the pass, firstly by using it and then also in lying to the officer who stopped you. You will also need to admit effectively stealing the pass (I assume your cousin didn’t just give it to you?) to ensure your cousin doesn't suffer consequences too. The anxiety is neither here nor there when it comes to your motivation and does not absolve you from criminal responsibility. Introducing it to suggest you personally have a lower threshold of stress to induce you to tell a lie is an unwise move, but it is done now.

The only way you can really deal with this now you have replied to their letter is by sitting and waiting for their reply. They may ask you for more details if they are unsatisfied the matter is fully investigated, or they may summons you to the magistrates’ court. Bear in mind each time you contact them, what you say forms part of the evidence they may use in court against you.

I totally agree..the pass was not stolen it was given to me by one of his kids by mistake as I thought it was a normal pay as you go oyster...I put the oyster into my phone wallet without checking the validity off the pass..I usually tap my phone case on the reader..hence I did not realise I had a staff pass...this is a big careless on my part and I have explained this to them in writing.

 

[AlterEgo]

I totally agree..the pass was not stolen it was given to me by one of his kids by mistake as I thought it was a normal pay as you go oyster...I put the oyster into my phone wallet without checking the validity off the pass..I usually tap my phone case on the reader..hence I did not realise I had a staff pass...this is a big careless on my part and I have explained this to them in writing.

I really hope for your sake this is true, because from your previous posts you have provided enough information for a reader to suspect that you did know it was a staff pass, not least your admission that you only planned to use it for a short while which wouldn't make sense for a PAYG you'd top up yourself. Why do you think you were stopped, and why else would you first refuse to answer questions, and then subsequently lie about it, if you really thought it was a "normal" Oyster?

This is not a believable defence and a court will suspect it is not true, and will be especially unimpressed if they suspect you lied about someone's child giving it to you.

 

[6Gman]

I totally agree..the pass was not stolen it was given to me by one of his kids by mistake as I thought it was a normal pay as you go oyster...I put the oyster into my phone wallet without checking the validity off the pass..I usually tap my phone case on the reader..hence I did not realise I had a staff pass...this is a big careless on my part and I have explained this to them in writing.

So the sequence of events you are presenting is:

Your cousin's child gave you a pass (presumably in the form of an Oyster card?) which you thought was an ordinary pay as you go card, which you used for four days without realising what it was?

Did you have an Oyster card of your own at the time? If so, why wasn't this already in your phone case?
Does a staff Oyster card have something on it to say it is a staff card? (My Oyster card has a retired staff discount applied to it but there is nothing on the card to indicate the fact)
Was this a staff card offering a discount or free travel?

These are issues those investigating your case are going to be considering.

 

[Dstock7080]

Does a staff Oyster card have something on it to say it is a staff card?

 

[skyhigh]

Does a staff Oyster card have something on it to say it is a staff card?

I believe it's a different colour to a normal Oyster and says 'Staff' on the front. Not easy to accidentally mistake for a pay-as-you-go card.

the pass was not stolen it was given to me by one of his kids by mistake as I thought it was a normal pay as you go oyster...

To which the obvious question would be 'why was one of your cousin's kids giving you an Oyster card in the first place?' Surely if nothing else you'd check how much credit was on it before you started using it? Not to mention the fact you previously said:

The staff pass was my cousins...I only planned to use to for a short but unfortunately I got caught within 4 days off using it.

If it was a normal Oyster why would you need to 'plan' to stop using it after a while? To be quite honest it looks like you're compounding your error in judgement with lies and that normally only makes things worse. TfL investigators are not stupid.

 

[mmh]

I have a young family so can not afford to have a conviction as my job requires regular DBS checks

Something that nobody has mentioned yet, I suspect because none of the responders have ever been in the position themselves, is that a conviction and therefore a DBS check which isn't empty does not mean someone will automatically lose their job (despite what some on here seem to assume!)

An employer cannot legally summarily dismiss an existing employee just because they discover the employee has been convicted of an offence.

Many, many "convicted" people, myself included, happily continue to work for all manner of jobs in the private sector, local, and national government where more invasive checks are sometimes made. My criminal record didn't lose me my job, and it is more serious than fare evasion.

The only thing to do is if you're ever asked about it as part of DBS or another vetting process, to be honest about it. From experience, they may come back and ask more, but that's not something to necessarily worry about. The purpose of these checks isn't, or shouldn't be, to unnecessarily penalise people with minor and trivial misdemeanours.

Edit: and if you're in a unionised workplace and a member, get in touch with them. If you're not a member, consider joining before your next check, or before you think your employer or you will mention it.

 

[Jimmy92]

Something that nobody has mentioned yet, I suspect because none of the responders have ever been in the position themselves, is that a conviction and therefore a DBS check which isn't empty does not mean someone will automatically lose their job (despite what some on here seem to assume!)

An employer cannot legally summarily dismiss an existing employee just because they discover the employee has been convicted of an offence.

Many, many "convicted" people, myself included, happily continue to work for all manner of jobs in the private sector, local, and national government where more invasive checks are sometimes made. My criminal record didn't lose me my job, and it is more serious than fare evasion.

The only thing to do is if you're ever asked about it as part of DBS or another vetting process, to be honest about it. From experience, they may come back and ask more, but that's not something to necessarily worry about. The purpose of these checks isn't, or shouldn't be, to unnecessarily penalise people with minor and trivial misdemeanours.

Edit: and if you're in a unionised workplace and a member, get in touch with them. If you're not a member, consider joining before your next check, or before you think your employer or you will mention it.

Thanks mate..I have a young family and the last thing I want to do is lose my job!!.

Regarding the other comments I will comment once I hear back from TFL,as I'm quite busy at the moment to write all the details down.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

The only thing to do is if you're ever asked about it as part of DBS or another vetting process, to be honest about it. From experience, they may come back and ask more, but that's not something to necessarily worry about. The purpose of these checks isn't, or shouldn't be, to unnecessarily penalise people with minor and trivial misdemeanours.

Spot on. Be open about any convictions and most employers are reasonable. Fail to disclose and it can be an easy route to dismissal for gross misconduct. If in doubt ask HR.

 

[Jimmy92]

Hello just need some advice...I have recieved a court summons in a few months time..I just need some help in a few issues.

1. I have been charged with TFL byelaws17(1)entering a compulsory ticket area without a valid ticket
2. But on the offence sheet I have also been accused of using this pass on bus journeys which I did not do...what can I do about this?
3. How will this impact my job im a security officer.
4. I have read numerous times this is a non-recordable offence will it still show up on the DBS.

Any help will be much appreciated.

 

[30907]

In the offence sheet I have also been accused of using this pass on bus journeys which I did not do...what can I do about this?

You could choose to plead not guilty, as they are a separate offence (is a Byelaw mentioned for them?), but I would get advice from someone qualified before doing that (CAB, solicitor, union?). I would also make sure I could prove my innocence.

1. How will this impact my job im a security officer.

Can't say - but you may need to tell your employer (depends what your contract says).

1. I have read numerous times this is a non-recordable offence will it still show up on the DBS.

Yes, on an Enhanced DBS but not a standard one.

 

[Jimmy92]

You could choose to plead not guilty, as they are a separate offence (is a Byelaw mentioned for them?), but I would get advice from someone qualified before doing that (CAB, solicitor, union?). I would also make sure I could prove my innocence.

Can't say - but you may need to tell your employer (depends what your contract says).

Yes, on an Enhanced DBS but not a standard one.

Thank for your response only charge is mentioned the TFL byelaw but they said they will take the other offences into consideration if I admit them and in turn they will NOT charge me for the rest,only the one I got caught with.

How will I prove to them this was not me and will it make a difference if they are only charging me for one offence..Can I get my cousin to write a letter and sign it saying it was him (the original passholder)

 

[mikeg]

Thank for your response only charge is mentioned the TFL byelaw but they said they will take the other offences into consideration if I admit them and in turn they will NOT charge me for the rest,only the one I got caught with.

How will I prove to them this was not me and will it make a difference if they are only charging me for one offence..Can I get my cousin to write a letter and sign it saying it was him (the original passholder)

I thought you said you did use it?
Are you planning on lying and getting your cousin to lie on your behalf? If so there are very serious consequences for this.

 

[Jimmy92]

I thought you said you did use it?
Are you planning on lying and getting your cousin to lie on your behalf? If so there are very serious consequences for this.

No sorry u misunderstood...I used it on the underground but not on the buses for the 2 days they have stated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2022 ==

I thought you said you did use it?
Are you planning on lying and getting your cousin to lie on your behalf? If so there are very serious consequences for this.

Also please read the post properly before you come across all judemental @30907 Understood...I used the pass for 4 days on the tube but not on the buses!

 

[mikeg]

No sorry u misunderstood...I used it on the underground but not on the buses for the 2 days they have stated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Mar 2022 ==


Also please read the post properly before you come across all judemental @30907 Understood...I used the pass for 4 days on the tube but not on the buses!

Ok sorry I see. No judgment intedned

 

[PG]

I thought you said you did use it?
Are you planning on lying and getting your cousin to lie on your behalf? If so there are very serious consequences for this.

I'd highly recommend having a good think about this matter and, as @30907 has said, getting proper advice from CAB/ Solicitor/ Union asap.

I'm not passing judgement (that's for the court to consider) but have a look at what the Crown Prosecution Service say on Public Justice Offences.

Perjury is regarded as "one of the most serious offences on the criminal calendar because it wholly undermines the whole basis of the administration of justice": Chapman J in R v Warne (1980) 2 Cr. App. R. (S.) 42. It is regarded as serious whether it is committed in the context of a minor case, for example a car passenger who falsely states that the driver did not jump a red light as alleged, or a serious case, for example a false alibi witness in a bank robbery case.

My own personal advice: You're in a hole. Stop digging.

 

[Jimmy92]

I'd highly recommend having a good think about this matter and, as @30907 has said, getting proper advice from CAB/ Solicitor/ Union asap.

I'm not passing judgement (that's for the court to consider) but have a look at what the Crown Prosecution Service say on Public Justice Offences.

My own personal advice: You're in a hole. Stop

I'd highly recommend having a good think about this matter and, as @30907 has said, getting proper advice from CAB/ Solicitor/ Union asap.

I'm not passing judgement (that's for the court to consider) but have a look at what the Crown Prosecution Service say on Public Justice Offences.

My own personal advice: You're in a hole. Stop digging.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Mar 2022 ==

I'm not sure if u guys are understanding what I'm saying...I did use the pass on the underground for the 4 days in October...but I did not use the staff pass in August where it was stated the bus journeys where made!my cousin who is the the rightful owner of the pass made those journeys..but TFL have accused me of making them journeys..I have no reason to lie seen as I'm admiting I did use the pass...but what should I do regarding the journeys I did not make!!

 

[nanstallon]

I think that you are lucky to be only charged with the bye-law offence. There may be some sense in not arguing about the bus journeys, if you are admitting to the underground journeys. Just possibly there could be a deal - maybe on the day of the hearing - by which you admit the underground journeys and they withdraw the allegations about the bus journeys. But they could get nasty; you are on weak ground generally, and you may not want to involve your cousin in the matter.

 

[RPI]

One thing with TfL is the rarely, if ever, settle out of court I'm afraid.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

One thing with TfL is the rarely, if ever, settle out of court I'm afraid.

And are very unlikely (quite rightly, in my opinion) to do so in this case.

 

[Jimmy92]

I'm guessing from the responses I should just admit I used the pass on the buses (even if I didnt)..seen as it will be less hassle.