CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Caaardiff]

Is it established whether the class 230 will be replaced by the last deliveries of class 197 ?
Were they only ever intended to be a stopgap ?

The 230's were planned to stay long term. In the original Franchise proposal definitely beyond 2025 which was where the fleet detail was up to. Things have changed since then though. But there is no scope within the 197 order to provide units for the Bidston line.
Unless changes are made elsewhere, (more Mk4's?) then a top up order of 197s would be needed.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

The 230's have to go into service as tfw have heavily invested lots of money into them, I can see them running before the 197s in May TT. There's 30 drivers trained on the 230s but no drivers trained on the 197s yet.

I've heard the 197s are cleared on the Wrexham to Bidston line but that's as a plan B really if a 230 fails in the future a 197 could go up there.......

The 230s should already be in service no?

 

[boby32]

The 230s should already be in service no?

The class 230 should be in service in May 2022.

https://www.modernrailways.com/article/tfw-postpones-class-230-introduction-again

 

[Bob Price]

The 230s should already be in service no?

They should be but COVID has hit driver training. They have a number of drivers ready so it probably won't be long before they start the service.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

They should be but COVID has hit driver training. They have a number of drivers ready so it probably won't be long before they start the service.

Fair enough then.

 

[wobman]

They should be but COVID has hit driver training. They have a number of drivers ready so it probably won't be long before they start the service.

There's only 30 drivers out of nearly 100 trained on the 230s and they are going through refreshes now. That depends on unit and DI availability, let's hope there's enough drivers ready for May TT

 

[LOL The Irony]

A 197 was testing on the Mid Cheshire today

 

[hexagon789]

A 197 was testing on the Mid Cheshire today

I didn't see any moving but I caught 003 and 004 parked up at Chester yesterday:

 

[LOL The Irony]

I didn't see any moving but I caught 003 and 004 parked up at Chester yesterday:

View attachment 110697

Nice catch. I wanted to go out today which could've resulted in me seeing it, but I had a headache, so that went down the pan.

 

[hexagon789]

Nice catch. I wanted to go out today which could've resulted in me seeing it, but I had a headache, so that went down the pan.

That's a shame, tbh I wasn't expecting or intending to see anything but they just happened to be parked alongside Platform 7 as I walked past to catch a train from 6.

I think they may have been there on Monday but I didn't really stop and look properly as the disruption was pretty bad.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Another 197 off to Crewe on Tuesday morning (1/3/22) for testing. Paths/times are in for it.

 

[317 forever]

Let's just say may timetable start is looking a bit optimistic, a few DIs are trained on them but no Chester driver's have started any training on them as yet. I don't think the training package fir the 197s has even been signed off .

The first route is the Liverpool Lime Street service and then N Wales coast to follow soon after, let's remember there's the 230's out in service in May aswell.......

This may be rather ambitious. It's just that I hope on the same day, perhaps summer 2023, to ride a 197, 230 & 777 for the first time.

I am incidentally concerned in case 230s are only short-term, rendering the above combination impossible in the end.

 

[wobman]

This may be rather ambitious. It's just that I hope on the same day, perhaps summer 2023, to ride a 197, 230 & 777 for the first time.

I am incidentally concerned in case 230s are only short-term, rendering the above combination impossible in the end.

Out of that list the 197s will definitely be in service this year, not sure about the rest of them.

The 230's by the looks of things may be very short term or very infrequent if they actually do ever come into service!

 

[wobman]

Another 197 off to Crewe on Tuesday morning (1/3/22) for testing. Paths/times are in for it.

How many 197s is that now that have been delivered to TFW ??

 

[Jacob Porrett]

How many 197s is that now that have been delivered to

How many 197s is that now that have been delivered to TFW ??

Must be at least 4 or 5 or 6 I think.

 

[wobman]

Must be at least 4 or 5 or 6 I think.

Only another 70 then

 

[berneyarms]

How many 197s is that now that have been delivered to TFW ??

Following this thread, you have:

So far delivered to TfW at Crewe are
Class 197/0: Sets 197001-004 and 197010 (5 units)

Class 197/1: Sets 197101-102 (2 units)

At Donnington are:
Class 197/0: Sets 197006-008, 197011 and an UID unit (5 units)

Class 197/1: An UID unit (1 unit)

 

[Philip]

December 2022 probably makes sense for introduction on Manchester to Swansea services; they can change the timetable and introduce new first class fares at the same time as the national timetable change.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Following this thread, you have:

So far delivered to TfW at Crewe are
Class 197/0: Sets 197001-004 and 197010 (5 units)

Class 197/1: Sets 197101-102 (2 units)

At Donnington are:
Class 197/0: Sets 197006-008, 197011 and an UID unit (5 units)

Class 197/1: An UID unit (1 unit)

Something on the lines of this yes.

 

[mmh]

Apparently network rail says the work is achievable, can't see demolition being needed maybe some grinding of the stonework and infrastructure work.

Tfw and network rail are spending plenty of money extending Holyhead port sidings to store some 197s, so they wouldn't be spending that money if the clearance issues were a big problem!

Do you have any sources for this? The local press and politicians would have a field day if TFW have bought trains that won't fit along North Wales. It won't be the first time that's happened either!

 

[wobman]

Do you have any sources for this? The local press and politicians would have a field day if TFW have bought trains that won't fit along North Wales. It won't be the first time that's happened either!

Whats your solution then ??

 

[CJ]

A 197 was testing on the Mid Cheshire today

Nice catch!

I wonder why it stopped at Altrincham? Was it purely for testing purposes only or in anticipation of the Manchester - North Wales services going via that route and stopping at intermediate stations (if that proposal is still being considered)?

Yesterday, 197101 was doing test runs on the Crewe - Wilmslow (and return) runs.

 

[L401CJF]

Nice catch!

I wonder why it stopped at Altrincham? Was it purely for testing purposes only or in anticipation of the Manchester - North Wales services going via that route and stopping at intermediate stations (if that proposal is still being considered)?

Yesterday, 197101 was doing test runs on the Crewe - Wilmslow (and return) runs.

Presumably as its classed as a diversionary route and in an emergency/disruption TfW may have to stop there.

Currently route learning as a guard with TfW and we have to familiarise ourselves with the stations en route we never stop at just incase we have to stop there one day for whatever reason.

Although I could be wrong!

 

[wobman]

Presumably as its classed as a diversionary route and in an emergency/disruption TfW may have to stop there.

Currently route learning as a guard with TfW and we have to familiarise ourselves with the stations en route we never stop at just incase we have to stop there one day for whatever reason.

Although I could be wrong!

Are you testing the ASDO operation on these stations aswell ??

 

[Roger B]

Presumably as its classed as a diversionary route and in an emergency/disruption TfW may have to stop there.

Currently route learning as a guard with TfW and we have to familiarise ourselves with the stations en route we never stop at just incase we have to stop there one day for whatever reason.

Although I could be wrong!

At one time there was talk of re-routing the mid-cheshire after Altrincham into Manchester Airport, and then to Piccadilly, but I've not heard anything about this proposal (if it ever got that far!) for quite a while. Has anyone heard anything more recently about this?

 

[wobman]

At one time there was talk of re-routing the mid-cheshire after Altrincham into Manchester Airport, and then to Piccadilly, but I've not heard anything about this proposal (if it ever got that far!) for quite a while. Has anyone heard anything more recently about this?

The discussions on this proposal have been pushed back for a few years, as tfw have a huge training backlog to resolve first.
The Manchester task force have proposed the re routing of the tfw Manchester Airport services via Cheshire lines, it's to take pressure off the Ordsall lane corridor/ Castlefield jn area of the Chester to Manchester route.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Nice catch!

It's not my video, so I advise directing that praise towards them in the comments section.

I wonder why it stopped at Altrincham? Was it purely for testing purposes only or in anticipation of the Manchester - North Wales services going via that route and stopping at intermediate stations (if that proposal is still being considered)?

Presumably as its classed as a diversionary route and in an emergency/disruption TfW may have to stop there.

Currently route learning as a guard with TfW and we have to familiarise ourselves with the stations en route we never stop at just incase we have to stop there one day for whatever reason.

Although I could be wrong!

In the early days of ATW, the diversions did call at Altrincham (I assume in lieu of Wilmslow) but they haven't done so for a long time. TfW operating the semi fast (although with Greenbank and Hale off the cards, is it now just a fast?) is still on the table and is due to be implemented once upgrades to the single track sections near Chester are dealt with.

 

[Roger B]

The discussions on this proposal have been pushed back for a few years, as tfw have a huge training backlog to resolve first.
The Manchester task force have proposed the re routing of the tfw Manchester Airport services via Cheshire lines, it's to take pressure off the Ordsall lane corridor/ Castlefield jn area of the Chester to Manchester route.

Thanks for the update Wobman.

 

[Ribbleman]

The 230's were planned to stay long term. In the original Franchise proposal definitely beyond 2025 which was where the fleet detail was up to. Things have changed since then though. But there is no scope within the 197 order to provide units for the Bidston line.
Unless changes are made elsewhere, (more Mk4's?) then a top up order of 197s would be needed.

I think that it’s more likely that the 230s will eventually be replaced by battery powered 777s. We are a few years away from that, but given the WAG’s avowed aim to have through services to Liverpool, it just remains for the battery fitted units to prove themselves in service before the possibilities can be further explored.

 

[wobman]

I think that it’s more likely that the 230s will eventually be replaced by battery powered 777s. We are a few years away from that, but given the WAG’s avowed aim to have through services to Liverpool, it just remains for the battery fitted units to prove themselves in service before the possibilities can be further explored.

What's worrying is that 230's were planned as a long term stop gap until the battery 777s were available, but they still aren't in service and nobody expects them if they get into service to last until 2025 !

The 197s may have to fill in on the borderlands route, so the passengers may get 2 new types of traction on the borderlands line. One thing to think about is tfw want to run using asdo.