Russia invades Ukraine

[AlterEgo]

Except that Ukraine has held free elections and critical journalists in Ukraine don't end up with a bullet in their head. In Russia on the other hand...

Indeed, I wasn’t trying to equate the two. Russia is worse in every aspect.

 

[nw1]

He and his fellow cranks will be celebrating the invasion of a sovereign nation and seeking to apologise for Russian imperialism while ranting about the evils of NATO.

Stop the War! No, not that one..................

EDIT - who cares what he thinks. He is a nobody.

I'm not sure what Corbyn himself believes about this.

However, what I don't understand is how some (a minority, but some) on the so-called-left (but not necessarily Corbyn) want to defend people like Putin, a person whose values appear to be firmly in the right-wing camp. Imperialism, militarism, aggression, authoritarianism, and hatred of LGBT people. Not exactly things any true left-winger should support.

 

[LOL The Irony]

On a related note, somebody could easily shell Chernobyl and that is not a comfortable prospect.

And now, Russian and Belarusian forces are attacking the powerplant.

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1496862540957114370?t=OYZCefQdVg2fQrkqmtH1Gw&s=19

Russian occupation forces are trying to seize the #Chornobyl_NPP. Our defenders are giving their lives so that the tragedy of 1986 will not be repeated. Reported this to @SwedishPM. This is a declaration of war against the whole of Europe.

 

[Peterthegreat]

What I don't understand is how some (a minority, but some) on the so-called-left want to defend people Putin, a person whose values appear to be firmly in the right-wing camp. Imperialism, militarism, aggression, authoritarianism, and hatred of LGBT people. Not exactly things any true left-winger should support.

Quite. However I would say a number of people who generally hold right of centre views do support/sympathise/accept Putin's view of the world. I suspect they would not if he was still a "communist".

 

[squizzler]

A great idea, but how do we achieve it?

NATO can yet still go all-in. Whilst initially the free world did not commit with this, I think it’s totally fine to change its mind, in light of Putin’s word - such as “no invasion planned” - being so worthless.

There is no fear against going against Russia now, it’s not like they might start a war or something, they already have.

Personally, playing armchair general a bit, I’d send the troops already in Poland and the Baltic’s straight across their respective borders. Russia would be forced to redeploy its troops which would take the pressure off Ukraine a bit.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Due to the invasion, Flightradar24 has seen an increase in traffic, meaning they’ve had to put queueing on. First time I’ve seen that.

You won't see much, or anything on there.
USAF B52's have been loitering over Poland since this morning and there are a number of air-to-air refuelling tankers from various NATO forces, operating over the eastern member states, no doubt supporting the various surveillance operations taking place.
Global Hawks have been operating over Ukraine all week, but have withdrawn from that airspace today.

All week up until yesterday, there has been a flurry of activity with numerous private business jets flying between Russia (mostly Moscow) and Switzerland (Mmmm?????), also to Nice, Palma and Barcelona (home to many Russian owned private yachts).

 

[LittleAH]

Russian forces are currently bombing residential areas of Ukraine killing innocent civilians. Anyone who tries to defend them on here is nothing but an appeaser to those committing war crimes

 

[Scotrail314209]

Part of me feels the invasion will over as quick as it started, especially given that the fighting is extremely high on the scale.

Fighting over Chernobyl is also rather worrying too.

 

[DarloRich]

Quite. However I would say a number of people who generally hold right of centre views do support/sympathise/accept Putin's view of the world. I suspect they would not if he was still a "communist".

Because he stands against the twin evils of the western world: NATO and the Americans

NATO can yet still go all-in. Whilst initially the free world did not commit with this, I think it’s totally fine to change its mind, in light of Putin’s word - such as “no invasion planned” - being so worthless.

There is no fear against going against Russia now, it’s not like they might start a war or something, they already have.

Personally, playing armchair general a bit, I’d send the troops already in Poland and the Baltic’s straight across their respective borders. Russia would be forced to redeploy its troops which would take the pressure off Ukraine a bit.

That isn't going to happen unless a NATO country is directly attacked. Putin knows this and he knows we know this. He can do what he wants in Ukraine and will face sanctions and harsh words.

 

[squizzler]

That isn't going to happen unless a NATO country is directly attacked. Putin knows this and he knows we know this. He can do what he wants in Ukraine and will face sanctions and harsh words.

Dunno. I think the public mood is baying for Putin’s blood, will be disappointed by even the best sanctions, and the politicians may have to be more hawkish.

 

[DarloRich]

Dunno. I think the public mood is baying for Putin’s blood, will be disappointed by even the best sanctions, and the politicians may have to be more hawkish.

Can we be sensible: we are not going to attack Russia just as they wont attack us or NATO.

 

[brad465]

Russian World Chess Champion Garry Kasparov seems to have the right idea:

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1496865471995523080

Ok, after years of warnings were ignored and hearing "Garry, you were right!" all damn day today, I'll repeat what I said in 2014: Stop telling me I was right and listen to what I'm saying now. My recommendations follow: 1/5

-Support Ukraine militarily, immediately, everything but boots on the ground. All weapons, intel, cyber. -Bankrupt Putin's war machine. Freeze & seize Russia's finances & those of him and his gang. -Kick Russia out of every intl & financial institution. PACE, Interpol, etc 2/5

-Recall all ambassadors from Russia. There is no point in talking. The new unified message is "stop or be isolated completely". -Ban all elements of Putin's global propaganda machine. Turn them off, shut them down, send them home. Stop helping the dictator spread lies & hate. 3/5

-Expose and act against Putin's lackeys in the free world. If Schröder and his ilk continue to work for Putin, bring charges. Ask the owners & advertisers of networks platforming Putin propagandists like Carlson why they allow it. 4/5

-Replace Russian oil & gas. Pressure OPEC, increase production, reopen Keystone. You can't save the planet if you don't save the people on it. -Acknowledge there will be costs, sacrifices. We waited to long, the price is high, but it will only get higher. It's time to fight. 5/5

Cannot ignore the political 5th column of Putinists, from the far right & left in EU to the tankies & Trump & his GOP followers in the US. They may have the right to support a brutal dictator's war in order to criticize Biden, but it's disgusting and anti-American. Do not forget.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Kremlin websites went down about 25 minutes ago, now back up.

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1496872413157806085?s=20&t=NP9EsldAvXfJ1nKswtjZpQ

The Kremlin website, as well as most Russian government websites, are down. http://kremlin.ru

Caption: Screenshot from 'IsItDownRightNow?' showed that the Kremlin site is not responding.

 

[DustyBin]

Can we be sensible: we are not going to attack Russia just as they wont attack us or NATO.

I agree. From a NATO perspective the danger of it escalating into a nuclear conflict is too great, and from a Russian perspective it’s suicide. I don’t know what the answer is here to be honest, I’ll say it again though that Putin being toppled from within is probably the best outcome. The fighting looks to be extremely fierce with no shortage of Russian losses and if it becomes a prolonged bloody conflict who knows……

 

[GS250]

Can we be sensible: we are not going to attack Russia just as they wont attack us or NATO.

Correct. Only an unstable NATO leader with an agenda would consider actually attacking Russia. Too much to lose even if you ended up winning. We have to remember, Ukraine does actually have a reasonable military which should be able to put up a fight.

 

[DanNCL]

I’m not too worried about fighting around Chernobyl. Russia knows that the radiation fallout from destroying the nuclear entombment building would be a hinderance to their own troops (and an issue to their military playground in south east Belarus) as much as it would be a hinderance to Ukrainian forces.

 

[brad465]

I agree. From a NATO perspective the danger of it escalating into a nuclear conflict is too great, and from a Russian perspective it’s suicide. I don’t know what the answer is here to be honest, I’ll say it again though that Putin being toppled from within is probably the best outcome. The fighting looks to be extremely fierce with no shortage of Russian losses and if it becomes a prolonged bloody conflict who knows……

Putin can't afford a long bloody conflict, as his own population will more likely turn on him the longer this goes on, which is why he's going hard and fast, as anything more than a few weeks, and certainly getting on for a few months, will become a problem for him. This is why the West supplying arms to Ukraine is seen as essential.

 

[adc82140]

I don't foresee RT being on our screens for much longer. Wouldn't be surprised if the website is blocked in the UK as well.

 

[DarloRich]

Putin can't afford a long bloody conflict, as his own population will more likely turn on him the longer this goes on, which is why he's going hard and fast, as anything more than a few weeks, and certainly getting on for a few months, will become a problem for him. This is why the West supplying arms to Ukraine is seen as essential.

I think they want it over much quicker: encircle the capital, force out or capture the leadership, install quisling pro russian leader who asks for madness to end as alleged nazis have been removed followed by asking for russian forces to stay for "security" reasons

Edit: followed by some good old fashioned purging once people stop looking

 

[Scotrail12]

This is making me feel sick. What the heck is next? First a 2 year pandemic and now a war. Could we seriously be at threat?

 

[DustyBin]

I think they want it over much quicker: encircle the capital, force out or capture the leadership, install quisling pro russian leader who asks for madness to end as alleged nazis have been removed followed by asking for russian forces to stay for "security" reasons

Again I agree. He’ll want to take Kyiv as quickly as possible, install a puppet and bring an end to the fighting. What he won’t want are running battles across various fronts that drag on for weeks and prove costly in terms of Russian casualties. The Ukrainians on the other hand will I’m sure try and bog the Russian forces down using whatever tactics they can, long enough for the casualties to become unpalatable for the majority of Russians who just may then decide enough is enough.

 

[mattdickinson]

This is making me feel sick. What the heck is next? First a 2 year pandemic and now a war. Could we seriously be at threat?

Traditionally famine is next...

 

[AM9]

What is the current position with Chechnya and the other north Caucasus states whose populations are overwhelmingly Muslim, where Russian forces were operating in conflict zones in past times. I have heard an opinion expressed today in our local village area that whilst Islamic State have been checked by Russian military power, aiding the Syrian regime in the north of that country, they could well decide to use this moment in time to move their forces from Afghanistan where they have a sizeable presence over to the north Caucasus area to harry the Russian military presence there. Russian attempts to impose a Communist puppet state in Afghanistan lead to a humiliating retreat and the deaths of a great many of its troops there.

I had thoughts along those lines as well. There have been a few local irritants to the Russian state that could flare up again, (with a little encouragement from the west? - that's never been done before! ). It would certainly distract Putin's administration.

 

[Mike395]

This is making me feel sick. What the heck is next? First a 2 year pandemic and now a war. Could we seriously be at threat?

Realistically, barring a major curveball virtually no analysts have predicted (and bear in mind, so far this has gone exactly as per a lot of the original US intelligence) - there's no real risk to lives in the West (or anywhere else except Ukraine and the invading Russian military, really) from this assault. As others have said, no NATO nation will want to risk an attack on Russia directly and vice versa.

 

[DustyBin]

This is making me feel sick. What the heck is next? First a 2 year pandemic and now a war. Could we seriously be at threat?

I do know how you feel, it certainly wasn’t the news I wanted to wake up to. I don’t think we’re under threat but at the same time the world cannot afford any miscalculations. It’s worth remembering that from a Russian perspective war with the UK let alone the rest of NATO would be catastrophic; they’ll be as keen to avoid any escalation as we are. Putin knows what NATO is capable of which I believe explains his (admittedly rather worrying) sabre rattling over foreign interference.

I know it’s easy to say but try not to worry too much.

 

[nw1]

I think they want it over much quicker: encircle the capital, force out or capture the leadership, install quisling pro russian leader who asks for madness to end as alleged nazis have been removed followed by asking for russian forces to stay for "security" reasons

Edit: followed by some good old fashioned purging once people stop looking

I do find it ironic that Putin is going on about 'Nazis' when he is the one behaving, well maybe not quite like a Nazi, but certainly a good deal closer to one than any Ukrainian leader I suspect.

 

[AlterEgo]

Traditionally famine is next...

Very good, 10/10!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do know how you feel, it certainly wasn’t the news I wanted to wake up to. I don’t think we’re under threat but at the same time the world cannot afford any miscalculations. It’s worth remembering that from a Russian perspective war with the UK let alone the rest of NATO would be catastrophic; they’ll be as keen to avoid any escalation as we are. Putin knows what NATO is capable of which I believe explains his (admittedly rather worrying) sabre rattling over foreign interference.

I know it’s easy to say but try not to worry too much.

I appreciate this, because I’ve made myself rather sick with worry. I think it was Putin’s threats of consequences never seen before that really harrowed me. I do hope he means cyber. While cyber hacking is awful, it’s so so so much better than loss of civilian life.

 

[nw1]

I appreciate this, because I’ve made myself rather sick with worry. I think it was Putin’s threats of consequences never seen before that really harrowed me. I do hope he means cyber. While cyber hacking is awful, it’s so so so much better than loss of civilian life.

As others have said, I doubt Putin would try anything against the west as the consequences for him would be catastrophic.

Still doesn't excuse his monstrous aggression though.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Russia invades Ukraine and advances on Kyiv – as it happened

US secretary of state says Russia plans widespread human rights abuses; Ukrainian spokesman condemns ‘totally pointless attack’

www.theguardian.com

The UK will impose the “largest and most severe” package of economic sanctions Russia “has ever seen”, Boris Johnson says.

The UK prime minister has been addressing the House of Commons, where he said the UK will do its “utmost” to offer support to Ukraine.

All major Russian banks will be excluded from the UK financial system and a full asset freeze is being imposed on VBT, Russia’s second-largest bank.

There will be limits on the amount Russians can have in British bank accounts, with asset freezes extended to around 100 more people.

Airline Aeroflot will be banned from the UK.

Similar measures will be imposed on Belarus, Johnson added.

Sanctions added in. The one I wasn't expecting was banning Aeroflot into flying into the UK. Surely rather than it just being Aeroflot, it should be any other Russian airline?