Russia invades Ukraine

[birchesgreen]

Either way, you reduce your armed forces at your peril. And you certainly don't let go of your nuclear weapons....

Indeed another example for countries like Iran and for DPRK to never give them up.

 

[kylemore]

Just to be 100% clear, not that you'll listen: Russia/Putin are the hostile parties here, not Ukraine. End of.

Letting loose Neo-Nazi thugs to terrorize civilians is not hostile?

Shelling civilians is not hostile?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2022 ==

To be fair, Saddam invaded Kuwait knowing fully well what the response would be. And that being at least 3 nuclear capable countries would be looking to drive him out.

Either way, you reduce your armed forces at your peril. And you certainly don't let go of your nuclear weapons....

Saddam was given the nod by the US to invade Kuwait and then was double-crossed. The last thing he expected was what happened!

 

[gg1]

Letting loose Neo-Nazi thugs to terrorize civilians is not hostile?

Ironic how the Putin apologists repeatedly throw the fascist/Nazi tag at Ukraine (it's been mentioned multiple times in this thread alone).

Putin led Russia is aggressively nationalistic, expansionist, brutally supresses internal opposition and has moved backwards in terms of gay rights, all sounds very reminiscent of fascism to me.

 

[75A]

Ironic how the Putin apologists repeatedly throw the fascist/Nazi tag at Ukraine (it's been mentioned multiple times in this thread alone).

Sounds like common sense to me

 

[kylemore]

Ironic how the Putin apologists repeatedly throw the fascist/Nazi tag at Ukraine (it's been mentioned multiple times in this thread alone).

Putin led Russia is aggressively nationalistic, expansionist, brutally supresses internal opposition and has moved backwards in terms of gay rights, all sounds very reminiscent of fascism to me.

Well would you care to address the reality of the Azov Battalion?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Letting loose Neo-Nazi thugs to terrorize civilians is not hostile?

Shelling civilians is not hostile?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2022 ==


Saddam was given the nod by the US to invade Kuwait and then was double-crossed. The last thing he expected was what happened!

No he wasn't. If Saddam took "we have no opinion on your border dispute with Kuwait" as an excuse for a full blown invasion it basically serves him right.

 

[najaB]

Letting loose Neo-Nazi thugs to terrorize civilians is not hostile?

Taking this as fact, are you saying that Country A allowing thugs to attack fellow citizens of Country A is a justification for a full-scale invasion of Country A by Country B?

 

[AlterEgo]

Well would you care to address the reality of the Azov Battalion?

Why does it matter? That would be like saying Ireland had a pretext to invade Northern Ireland in the 1960s and occupy it because the Army and police used to abuse Irish Catholic minorities. Except imagine Ireland was 20 times the size of the UK. It's a complete non-sequitur.

Ukraine is a deeply flawed country with a concerning level of corruption and paramilitarism, no doubt. Strangely enough, so is Russia. Russia is the belligerent and the aggressor and it is conducting a revanchist campaign to take territory which belongs to another sovereign country under what is basically old fashioned imperialism.

Whataboutery does not address the issue and Putin must be condemned unequivocally.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has there been any comment made from the Islington Oblast from Jeremy Corbyn yet?

 

[BananaRepublic]

Putin's dire warning this morning.....

"Whoever would try to stop us and further create threats to our country, to our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and lead you to such consequences that you have never faced in your history,"
"We are ready for any outcome."

 

[gg1]

Well would you care to address the reality of the Azov Battalion?

A thoroughly nasty organisation who didn't exist until AFTER Putin had annexed Crimea and engineered an uprising in east Ukraine. Putin bears a large degree of responsibility for their atrocities, in the same way Hitler bore considerable responsibility for atrocities committed by Soviet troops against German civilians towards the end of WW2.

 

[75A]

Hitler bore considerable responsibility for atrocities committed by Soviet troops against German civilians towards the end of WW2.

How do you work that one out?

 

[gg1]

How do you work that one out?

Seriously?

Who do you think ordered the German invasion of the Soviet Union?
Who do you think was responsible for large scale, organised atrocities against the Soviet populace, creating amongst Soviet soldiers a desire not just for victory but for revenge of a comparable level or brutality?

None of this lessens the culpability of the individual perpetrators of Soviet atrocities, or the commanders who turned a blind eye to them who really should have been tried for war crimes, but the fact remains Hitler was directly responsible for creating the circumstances leading up to them.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Seriously?

Who do you think ordered the German invasion of the Soviet Union?
Who do you think was responsible for large scale, organised atrocities against the Soviet populace, creating amongst Soviet soldiers a desire not just for victory but for revenge of a comparable level or brutality?

None of this lessens the culpability of the individual perpetrators of Soviet atrocities, or the commanders who turned a blind eye to them who really should have been tried for war crimes, but the fact remains Hitler was directly responsible for creating the circumstances leading up to them.

Absolutely correct.

 

[nw1]

Putin's dire warning this morning.....

"Whoever would try to stop us and further create threats to our country, to our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and lead you to such consequences that you have never faced in your history,"
"We are ready for any outcome."

Nobody is threatening "our country" or "our people".

Putin sounds like the classic fantasist psychopath, trying to project his own wrongs onto other people. He is the one doing the threatening. He is the one threatening millions of innocent Ukrainians.

Also, he is the one threatening his own people too, by dragging them into a war which many, I suspect, do not want.

 

[75A]

Absolutely correct.

So Hitler forced the Russians to do what they did?
What world are you in?

 

[YorkshireBear]

So Hitler forced the Russians to do what they did?
What world are you in?

Directly responsible for creating the circumstances that led to them is not the same as Hitler forced the Russians...

The Russians did some bad things and should have been held accountable. However had Hitler not invaded them, those things wouldn't have happened, similar to the Swiss cheese model in safety, many things have to line up for something to happen.

 

[75A]

Directly responsible for creating the circumstances that led to them is not the same as Hitler forced the Russians...

The Russians did some bad things and should have been held accountable. However had Hitler not invaded them, those things wouldn't have happened, similar to the Swiss cheese model in safety, many things have to line up for something to happen.

Yeah I get that,but surely if the Russians did bad things they should have been held accountable after the war just like the Germans were.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yeah I get that,but surely if the Russians did bad things they should have been held accountable after the war just like the Germans were.

And that is stated in the original post by gg1 and is not disputed.

 

[75A]

And that is stated in the original post by gg1 and is not disputed.

Ok, thanks.

 

[Peterthegreat]

So Hitler forced the Russians to do what they did?
What world are you in?

A more realistic one than you. I suggest you read the OP. He, like I, condemned the Russian actions. However it is quite clear Hitler created the circumstances to do this.

 

[kristiang85]

Apparently Antonov airport (a cargo airport) near Kyiv is under control of the Russians, and I've seen it on reliable sources. This is a big development if so, as it would give the Russians a solid staging post for an assualt on the capital.

 

[DarloRich]

Has there been any comment made from the Islington Oblast from Jeremy Corbyn yet?

He and his fellow cranks will be celebrating the invasion of a sovereign nation and seeking to apologise for Russian imperialism while ranting about the evils of NATO.

Stop the War! No, not that one..................

EDIT - who cares what he thinks. He is a nobody.

 

[GS250]

Nobody is threatening "our country" or "our people".

Putin sounds like the classic fantasist psychopath, trying to project his own wrongs onto other people. He is the one doing the threatening. He is the one threatening millions of innocent Ukrainians.

Also, he is the one threatening his own people too, by dragging them into a war which many, I suspect, do not want.

Agreed. Russians have long memories. They've lost a lot of people in the past.

 

[kylemore]

Directly responsible for creating the circumstances that led to them is not the same as Hitler forced the Russians...

The Russians did some bad things and should have been held accountable. However had Hitler not invaded them, those things wouldn't have happened, similar to the Swiss cheese model in safety, many things have to line up for something to happen.

The Bolsheviks (not necessarily Russian - remember the atrocity-monger in chief was Georgian!) were experts in the atrocity business well before 1941-5, ask the Ukrainians.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

I assume that Stop The War and their felliw followers are demonstrating vociferously outside the Russian embassy.

In other expected news, the pope to embrace protestantism and bears to begin toilet activities in non wooded areas.

 

[gysev]

Ukraine is a deeply flawed country with a concerning level of corruption and paramilitarism, no doubt. Strangely enough, so is Russia.

Except that Ukraine has held free elections and critical journalists in Ukraine don't end up with a bullet in their head. In Russia on the other hand...

 

[Scotrail314209]

Due to the invasion, Flightradar24 has seen an increase in traffic, meaning they’ve had to put queueing on. First time I’ve seen that.

Update: Now ended

 

[brad465]

Would stripping Russia of its Permanent Membership status of the United Nations Security Council be a possibility?

If they can be they certainly should. At the very minimum they shouldn't be allowed to veto on issues in which they are implicated.

 

[TheEdge]

If they can be they certainly should. At the very minimum they shouldn't be allowed to veto on issues in which they are implicated.

Frankly I think all 5 permanent members should loose their veto power. It's a stupid system and more often than not there is always opposing opinions in the 5 so anything important gets veto'd.