A fare rise riposte

[mumrar]

So, not just in the media, but also on here a lot of time has been devoted to rail fare increases.

We are indeed living in prudent times (although people still have plenty of money to fund *****e like X Factor!). It is worth noting however, that where I currently live (Midlands South, Redditch) a litre of petrol costs an average of 125.9p. Contrast this with the national average of around 86p for a litre in January 2009. That's a year on year rise of 20.5%! Diesel has fared slightly better as the gap narrows between the two, as more and more diesel cars are purchased. I believe along with Europe's highest percentage of cabriolets sold for market, the UK is also the percentage leader for diesel cars.

Bearing in mind the recent breakdown given of every £1 received for a ticket, we have to look at how much this increase is affected by having to service NR's massive level of borrowing through track access charges.

 

[142094]

How do petrol and rail ticket prices compare over a longer timeframe? I rememebr vaguely reading an article that showed petrol prices hadn't risen that much until a few years ago.

 

[jon0844]

Well the petrol protests were for fuel prices considerably lower than now, and it was in the press how outrageous it was when some petrol stations upped fuel prices to £1 a litre!

I was surprised we didn't get more protests, but the Government (and others around the world) were very clever to jump on the environmental impact and get everyone to think that driving is, well, evil. We're paying the extra to save the environment, so those people who moan now are blind to the problems of global warming and would never get any support.

Fuel prices are silly, but we'll probably look back in 10 years and think that £1.25 a litre is a bargain.

 

[moonrakerz]

How do petrol and rail ticket prices compare over a longer timeframe?

In 1969 when I got my first car (Mk 1 Escort) £2 got me 6 gallons. This doesn't go back that far !!

 

[radamfi]

So petrol went DOWN in real terms from 1983 to 2009!

In 2000, at fuel protest time, petrol had only gone up 3% in real terms, and therefore had gone up less than earnings.

So there is no point keeping petrol prices down as people will complain regardless.

Of greatest relevance is the relative cost of petrol and rail/bus. Despite all the arguments about rail fares and petrol prices, short distance bus fares are much higher per mile than rail or petrol, and generally paid for by the poorest people. But you don't hear anything like as much complaining about bus fares.

 

[Goldfish62]

So petrol went DOWN in real terms from 1983 to 2009!

In 2000, at fuel protest time, petrol had only gone up 3% in real terms, and therefore had gone up less than earnings.

So there is no point keeping petrol prices down as people will complain regardless.

Some people will moan and moan unless they can drive their cars for free, pay nothing for petrol and drive how ever fast they like.

Meanwhile the large Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has announced (several months after Hammond announced it) that the mythical "war on motorists" is ending and he is going to scrap restrictions on the amount of car parking space that councils have to impose on new housing developments. I wonder, wouldn't it be beyond even his tiny mind to instead consider compulsory provision for convenient public transport in such developments?

 

[tannedfrog]

89.9p per litre in 2009?

 

[richw]

89.9p per litre in 2009?

from my expenses form unleaded was 99.9 on 8/7/2009, and that was lowest i paid in 2009 according to my expenses claim records

 

[tbtc]

Something to bear in mind is that petrol costs are only part of it. Fuel efficiency makes a bit difference too

 

[MikeWh]

from my expenses form unleaded was 99.9 on 8/7/2009, and that was lowest i paid in 2009 according to my expenses claim records

I have petrol prices emails going back ages (sad I know), and 2009 started with the cheapest petrol at 82.9p at Tesco in Sidcup from 1/1-12/1.

 

[moonrakerz]

from my expenses form unleaded was 99.9 on 8/7/2009, and that was lowest i paid in 2009 according to my expenses claim records

MP, are you ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wonder, wouldn't it be beyond even his tiny mind to instead consider compulsory provision for convenient public transport in such developments?

........and just who pays for this "compulsory.........convenient public transport" ?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

In 1969 when I got my first car (Mk 1 Escort) £2 got me 6 gallons.

You might be interested to make a comparison with the cost of unrefined oil on the financial markets. Here's the price of 'Brent Crude' from 2004-2010, in US Dollars
(Larger image attached)

Going even further back, there was a shocking rise in 1976 which led to some domestic fuel prices doubling in just one year.

To plot a chart with older prices, I can add that Petrol prices at the pump in 1960 was under 15p a gallon (2s/9d) and by 1975 had risen to 33p a gallon.

Hope this helps.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Here's a graph of retail petrol prices throughout the 20th century, adjusted to 1999 prices. [From House of Commons Library - Social & General Statistics Section. Data from 'The Energy Institute']

(Click to enlarge)

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Well, I can't do every single year, but I can do the following:

York - Leeds fares. First fare = Standard / Anytime Day Return. Second fare = 7 day Standard Class Season Ticket:

September 1994 = £7.40 / £27.80
January 1997 = £8.30 / £29.40
September 2008 = £12.30 / £41.20
September 2009 = £13.30 / £44.00
January 2010 = £13.30 / £43.90
January 2011 = £14.30 / £46.50

So, between September 1994 and January 2011 the Day Return fare has increased by 93%, the 7 day season has increased by around 68%!

Phew!!

Although it sounds cheap compared with the fact the cost of petrol has more than doubled in the same period!

 

[shinkansen1966]

The tories say they're ending 'the war on the motorist' . There was no war on motorist to begin with !

Even the Economist agrees
http://www.economist.com/node/21014388?fsrc=nwl

 

[natureboy]

So petrol went DOWN in real terms from 1983 to 2009!

In 2000, at fuel protest time, petrol had only gone up 3% in real terms, and therefore had gone up less than earnings.

So there is no point keeping petrol prices down as people will complain regardless.

Of greatest relevance is the relative cost of petrol and rail/bus. Despite all the arguments about rail fares and petrol prices, short distance bus fares are much higher per mile than rail or petrol, and generally paid for by the poorest people. But you don't hear anything like as much complaining about bus fares.

Northern Rail's fares have increased, but not by a massive amount. Why on earth does everyone want to talk in percentages all the time? It makes it sound far worse. I live in Cottingley and just 20p has been added to fares to Leeds. These are now:
£1:70 single (anytime),
£2:65 return (anytime),
£2:30 return (off peak) 09:59 and later trains.

These increases are minimal and it's still cheaper to use the train to/from Leeds than unpredictable first buses!