Royal Mail to introduce barcoded postage stamps

[XAM2175]

Would that cause more problems at the sorting office with some items rejected incorrectly as having already used stamps?

That's a reasonable thought, but many postal administrations do cancel over the counter nonetheless. Perhaps that's a hangover from when more post was inspected by hand and eye early in the sorting process.

 

[zero]

Post Office staff are specifically instructed to not cancel stamps on items handed over the counter, for reasons I've never understood. The only exception (AFAIK) is when stamps are used as part-payment of postage in combination with a Horizon label.

Really? I've used about 50 different post offices all over the UK in the past 3 years, and all of them went crazy with the date chop. The staff at the one I use most often love to complain that I give them too much work, when I fill up a whole A4 page with values under 30p for an £11 special delivery.

Well at least stamp collectors love postmarks so my recipients are happy.

Next time I'll tell them "a guy on the internet said you're not supposed to cancel them at all" and see what they say.

Out of interest, your location is marked as Glasgow, which is where the sender of my parcel with the uncancelled fake stamps was (and also another seller who sent me a parcel via post office with uncancelled, genuine but obviously re-used stamps)... maybe it's a regional directive??

 

[XAM2175]

Really? I've used about 50 different post offices all over the UK in the past 3 years, and all of them went crazy with the date chop. The staff at the one I use most often love to complain that I give them too much work, when I fill up a whole A4 page with values under 30p for an £11 special delivery.

Well at least stamp collectors love postmarks so my recipients are happy.

Don't get me wrong, my particular interest is in postally-used so I very much want them to be hammering away with the cancel! I specifically request it and so far have repeated flat-out refusal from a Tesco-operated branch near me, a number of independent branches (here and in England) have told me they're not supposed to but that they will because I asked, one that I talked into doing it by claiming that I needed the recipient to be sure I'd sent it on that date, and two Crown offices (one in Scotland, one in England) have done it happily.

On the other hand, I've had one or two PO cancels from England on small parcels that I'm fairly sure wasn't sent with philatelic intent, so who knows?

 

[cav1975]

While this is personally inconvenient for me as I have several hundred low value stamps to use up from my late Dad's accumulation I can understand Royal Mail doing this. They have a real headache from forgers and, additionally, I can't think of any other organisations that accept 50+ year old prepayment vouchers for services to be provided now.
Fortunately I am selling a lot of old railway tickets on eBay so have a chance over the next year to use most. On principal I don't reuse any stamps that have already been through the mail.

 

[pdeaves]

Don't get me wrong, my particular interest is in postally-used so I very much want them to be hammering away with the cancel! I specifically request it and so far have repeated flat-out refusal from a Tesco-operated branch near me, a number of independent branches (here and in England) have told me they're not supposed to but that they will because I asked, one that I talked into doing it by claiming that I needed the recipient to be sure I'd sent it on that date, and two Crown offices (one in Scotland, one in England) have done it happily.

On the other hand, I've had one or two PO cancels from England on small parcels that I'm fairly sure wasn't sent with philatelic intent, so who knows?

Lucky you! I normally end up 'wasting' decent stamps for collection because they just get a biro mark across them... I don't suppose barcode stamps will change this.

 

[Phil56]

One thing I've never really understood about Royal Mail is how they completely and utterly missed the boat on the boom in online parcels until it was far too late

They are fantastic for sending a letter from Land's End to John o' Groats for less than a quid but I sold a medium sized parcel on eBay the other week weighing between 5 - 10KG

Dropped it off at my corner shop Monday morning, UPS collected it Monday afternoon, buyer had it Tuesday morning...total cost £8.85 (it would have been even cheaper still but I always add the signature and insurance options)

Royal Mail quoted over £20!

You also used to have to trundle down to the Post Office to drop off your parcels although I think they may now be trialling home collections and parcel postboxes, again though the couriers have been doing all this for years and some now even let you drop off parcels at the many lockers situated everywhere!

I agree with all this. RM were very slow to adapt to online shopping trends. They were also very slow to introduce portable scanners/trackers for their posties to carry around with them - a good few years after their competitors starting doing it, meaning they were late to the party with affordable tracking/proof of delivery options. They're still well behind the curve with not having delivery/collection options on Sundays. Their competitors are doing all the modernisation and they're lagging a few years behind losing out on business.

 

[PG]

you! I normally end up 'wasting' decent stamps for collection because they just get a biro mark across them... I don't suppose barcode stamps will change this.

Surely barcoded stamps have no need to be cancelled either properly or with a biro mark since each barcode is unique?

 

[Mojo]

Seen my first stamp with a ‘barcode’ on it today, at my Dad’s house. It hasn’t been cancelled so my dad had it sat on the kitchen windowsill in a dish of water. Was disappointed when I told him there’s no point as it can be checked if it’s already been used.

I tried to scan it as all the marketing made a big song and dance about the fact you’ll be able to see a custom message or video but seems this requires the Royal Mail app.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Surely barcoded stamps have no need to be cancelled either properly or with a biro mark since each barcode is unique?

Possibly not, if they've been through the mail system, you'd have to expect them to have been digitally recorded as "used". An actual franking mark on the stamps *might* still be useful to readily determine just how long a postal item has been in the system, but maybe no longer essential.

P.S. A biro mark (on postage stamps) is possibly not too dissimilar a method to cancelling same as is their use on traditional railway tickets!

 

[PG]

P.S. A biro mark (on postage stamps) is possibly not too dissimilar a method to cancelling same as is their use on traditional railway tickets!

Interestingly while a pen scribble on either of those things will serve to render them invalid, the same is not true for bank notes, which will be happily accepted with all manner of markings upon them!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Interestingly while a pen scribble on either of those things will serve to render them invalid, the same is not true for bank notes, which will be happily accepted with all manner of markings upon them!

However , it is an offence in the UK to deface banknotes!

But not to destroy them!

Currency and Banknotes Act (1928).

Who knew?!

 

[Gloster]

When I used to travel Europe a lot I always carried a wodge of UK notes as an emergency reserve. They were always clean and unmarked as long ago in one country I tried to get some cash with pounds and the cashier refused some of them as they had been written on, it being against the country’s law to do so. I think this was Germany, but I never found out if it was a joke, a misunderstanding or an over-scrupulous cashier.

 

[PG]

However , it is an offence in the UK to deface banknotes!

Hmm, I wonder when was the last time someone was prosecuted for that offence!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hmm, I wonder when was the last time someone was prosecuted for that offence!

That's the British legal system for you! Lots of laws on the Statute book, how many are ever actually enforced?

Believe a very similar Freedom of Information request was made in Scotland a few years ago, but no proper response was ever forthcoming.

 

[PG]

That's the English legal system for you! Lots of laws on the Statute book, how many are ever actually enforced?

Whole can of worms [and a new thread] just waiting to be opened there...

Does Scottish law have a similar offence or are they more reasonable?

 

[zero]

Interestingly while a pen scribble on either of those things will serve to render them invalid, the same is not true for bank notes, which will be happily accepted with all manner of markings upon them!

Well, banknotes are intended to be reusable multiple times, and in many countries indefinitely, while train tickets and stamps are intended to be used once, so they're not really comparable.

Scribbling on season tickets or rovers (as long as it's not in any date boxes) doesn't invalidate them, although once a guard decided to date clip my 3 day rover when I was travelling at 4pm on the final day. This just happened to be my final trip although he didn't know that.

When challenged, he said he did it "just to say it's been seen", but if that had happened every ticket check, he wouldn't have been able to read the ticket by then!


Most of the writing on banknotes comes from bank tellers writing the total on a big pile, or occasionally you find banknotes with love letters in the possessions of people who have passed away.

Once I found a banknote signed by the Beatles, which I bought for face value and sold for 20x face. The owner was a foreigner who was trying to exchange it in the UK but was refused as high street banks no longer do it for people without accounts, so asked me to bank them, and it was only by luck that I noticed.

 

[Cdd89]

As barcoded stamps don’t appear to have an expiry date, I wonder how RM intend to manage the growing database of issued and cancelled stamps over the years.

Maybe the issued barcodes are not actually recorded in a database but merely signed in some way, and only recorded (and kept for some period of time) once used; a bit like how I understand eTickets to work.

 

[Gloster]

If I understand the technology correctly, which I quite possibly don’t, my understanding is that the pattern of the dots on the strip next to the Queen’s head is the barcode. Is it possible that a small stain, speck of dust or piece of dirt could get on the strip and alter the pattern so that the code is altered to one of a stamp that has already been used? And is printing technology and paper quality so good that they can be certain that there will be no blurring of the code or false marks getting in at that stage?

 

[XAM2175]

If I understand the technology correctly, which I quite possibly don’t, my understanding is that the pattern of the dots on the strip next to the Queen’s head is the barcode. Is it possible that a small stain, speck of dust or piece of dirt could get on the strip and alter the pattern so that the code is altered to one of a stamp that has already been used?

It's a form of two-dimensional barcode known as a Data Matrix. They include a certain amount of redundant data and the readers use error-checking algorithms, so even if several cells are accidentally altered the data can be read correctly. If a significant amount of damage occurs the barcode will simply fail, rather than generate an incorrect read.

And is printing technology and paper quality so good that they can be certain that there will be no blurring of the code or false marks getting in at that stage?

By all appearances the matrices are printed using the same techniques as the other graphical components of the design, so the longevity and quality of the barcode printing should be no different to the rest of the stamp.

I would also assume that the finished stamps will have their barcodes checked by a reader before they're declared ready, so any failures can be removed at that stage.

 

[Lucan]

I can't think of any other organisations that accept 50+ year old prepayment vouchers for services to be provided now.

The Bank of England? The PO do well out of people buying stamps 50 years in advance of needing them, and the other upside is that the Queen's image on them becomes more flattering as time goes on.

 

[Butts]

My Son works for Royal Mail and they get 50/100 1st Class Stamps Free every Year just before Christmas, so I have never wanted for a stamp and must have about 50 non-bar coded stamps at home.

Amazing how few letters I send these days, indeed I use them mainly for Birthday and Christmas Cards and other occasions.

 

[WesternLancer]

I just learned of this as part of the announcement today of increased stamp prices - should have checked the forum first for helpful such news.

So is there any further news on what will happen to 'picture stamps' the sort with artistic designs on them I mean - issued for special occasions? I often buy these as a more interesting stamp to use on any letters I send - but will they become invalid if I do not swap them - and thus only have any value for stamp collectors - not even their face value?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I just learned of this as part of the announcement today of increased stamp prices - should have checked the forum first for helpful such news.

So is there any further news on what will happen to 'picture stamps' the sort with artistic designs on them I mean - issued for special occasions? I often buy these as a more interesting stamp to use on any letters I send - but will they become invalid if I do not swap them - and thus only have any value for stamp collectors - not even their face value?

Those are the "commemoratives" mentioned earlier on in the thread. Ultimately they'll probably get barcodes added themselves.

 

[WesternLancer]

Those are the "commemoratives" mentioned earlier on in the thread. Ultimately they'll probably get barcodes added themselves.

Yes, I expect you are correct - tho my concern is about the existing 'commemoratives' that don't have bar codes - will they all become worthless (at least as stamps) in Jan 2023?

By the looks of it Royal Mail simply call these 'special editions' or 'special stamps' and seem to issue about 1 set a month. Like most things marketed at collectors they are probably of little value beyond their face value - make them unusable and I expect they will be largely worthless. Which will be annoying given I have a number of them.

 

[cav1975]

Yes, I expect you are correct - tho my concern is about the existing 'commemoratives' that don't have bar codes - will they all become worthless (at least as stamps) in Jan 2023?

By the looks of it Royal Mail simply call these 'special editions' or 'special stamps' and seem to issue about 1 set a month. Like most things marketed at collectors they are probably of little value beyond their face value - make them unusable and I expect they will be largely worthless. Which will be annoying given I have a number of them.

What I have read (I can't find a quote right now) is that Royal Mail's indention was to invalidate all "definitive" and "Christmas" stamps without barcodes at the end of January but that they have relented on Christmas stamps. So this should mean that all the decimal money commemoratives will still be OK. I am certainly using up as many of my old definitives as I can and keeping the others for the future. There will be a new for old swap scheme but the details aren't out yet.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There will be a new for old swap scheme but the details aren't out yet.

Should be more details (including downloadable "swap out" forms) available at the end of the month, or more likely, it'll be 1st April!

 

[WesternLancer]

What I have read (I can't find a quote right now) is that Royal Mail's indention was to invalidate all "definitive" and "Christmas" stamps without barcodes at the end of January but that they have relented on Christmas stamps. So this should mean that all the decimal money commemoratives will still be OK. I am certainly using up as many of my old definitives as I can and keeping the others for the future. There will be a new for old swap scheme but the details aren't out yet.

Thanks - yes reading some of the stuff - inc posts up thread there is the implication that commemorative / special stamps without barcodes will remain valid. I suppose they are perhaps less subject to forgery / more complex to forge perhaps - which I assume is the driver for this.
I will certainly refuse to accept any more 'definitive stamps' from now on - which is why I ma annoyed at my local post office for selling me 4 books of 12 2nd class less than 2 weeks ago without mentioning any of this! Still, with good organisation I will use these up at Christmas if not before.

Yes Royal Mail website indicates the swap out forms will be ready soon.

However, I think it very unreasonable that a system where you just take old ones and swap them at PO counters will not be offered.

On a related theme, despite long running efforts to be rid of them I found an old £1 coin last week, and also unwittingly accepted one in change about 2 months ago. Luckily Lloyds bank swapped them over the counter.

Coinage is not backed up by the Bank of England 'promise to pay the bearer' gaurantee as I understand it - so I assume this is now goodwill from banks still swapping them, tho perhaps they have an arrangement with the Bank of England that is suitably long running.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

On a related theme, despite long running efforts to be rid of them I found an old £1 coin last week, and also unwittingly accepted one in change about 2 months ago. Luckily Lloyds bank swapped them over the counter.

Post Office will also take the old £1 coins off your hands, but was asked to do so by paying it into my debit card / bank account.

Presumably the reason why Post Offices won't be swapping out non-barcoded stamps, is that authenticity checks will first need to be undertaken on the ones submitted for swap out.

 

[HSTEd]

"Rapacious private business acts like rapaceious private business, more at 11"

I suppose it was only a matter of time, the requirement to accept old stamps at their original face value has always been a major dampener on the Royal Mail's ability to extract value.

 

[Watershed]

I do find it an extraordinarily sharp practice to simply invalidate stamps. They were bought in good faith and people shouldn't have to undergo inconvenience to avoid losing the money they've paid to Royal Mail. It seems a blatant breach of contract.

Then again, sharp practices seem to run in the 'postal family' (cf the Post Office scandal).