DCR. What is happening at the moment?

[Trainbuff]

Hi there.I am new to this forum so excuse if I am missing lots of information. I havve a particular interest in the local railways in my part of the world. Especially the ex Southern or Withered Arm. I have noticed in a few news sites that DCR have applied to run a service between Okehampton and Exeter St Davids or Central or St James Park. I also understand that there may be some delay due to awaiting a European Passenger and Freight Licence from the ORR.

Can anyone tell me if DCR have yet been granted this Licence and how else this exciting project is proceeding?

I have also seen in a much earlier thread that the local Council was going to help fund this service. That was posted in 2009 and obviously there have been many cuts since then.

Is this plan still going ahead and also is DCR an open Access operator or a member of ATOC? Just thinking of Priv ticket Usage for me and Family! Lol :lol

 

[d1015fan]

All there is in the current UK rail timetable under DCR section

New Operator due to commence operation during this timetable implying the probably have been granted the licence.

The problem I heard was finding drivers and guards.

I am looking forward to this actually happening and off on 8th January to get the 31's in currently there

 

[Skimble19]

What stock are they/will they be using?

 

[matt]

Class 31s with mark 2s and a DBSO have been mentioned.

 

[LE Greys]

Well, on the question asked and with infinite money, then dig out the GWR's plans for a line from Starcross to Newton Abbott and set it up for 125 mph running. Maintain the sea wall as a local service. That option does not cut off Torbay and would be part of a plan to upgrade the whole route to get Penzance-London down to less than four hours.

Realistically, the Meldon-Bere Alston line would be a very useful diversionary route, would give Tavistock a rail service and might carry a lot of tourists in the summer. However, the sea wall should remain the main line, since it serves Dawlish Warren, Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbott and Torbay. Quite a lot of people live there. Also, it avoids a reversal at Plymouth.

 

[fgwrich]

Class 31s with mark 2s and a DBSO have been mentioned.

With one exception - No DBSOs have been purchased or moved yet...So it looks far more likely it'll be top and tail Peds for now!

Will get round to doing a fuller post later - time to get this coursework completed!

 

[Trainbuff]

I think you are absolutely correct. While ultimately I would love to see the Okehampton route reopened as an additional mainline, again with infinite money....of which there is obviously not enough right now, the current mainline through Dawlish serves much larger population centres than Okehampton and Tavistock, for instance. A short 20 minutes from newton Abbot to Paignton too. If this line were lost a trip to Paignton and torquay would be much longer.

I think passing places at Bere Alston, Lydford, Okehampton and Crediton would allow a half hourly service in each direction, and ultimately a good diversionary route. Though being pragmatic, I wonder how accountants will look at a line with so many passing places used for diversion perhaps only a dozen days a year.

In this sense an hourly service could be provided with passing places at Tavistock and Okehampton only.

I have read some articles from the local press in Holsworthy that DCR are looking to extend a passenger and freight service to Holsworthy and Bude ultimately. I have to question the wisdom of this in light of the sparcity of population compared to the route to Tavistock. Many people might travel in the summer. But what about the long Winter months? Particularly as plans are well in hand to reopen from Bere Alston Tavistock.

Surely this would generate more traffic, and potentially allow at some later date a spur to Launceston from Lydford.

Also there are more obstacles to reopening to Holsworthy. Namely the A30 now bisects the old trackbed just after Meldon Junction and Halwill Junction is now a Housing Estate. Much of the infrastructure still exists to Tavistock, bar a few obstacles, but I believe less than North Cornwall.

Is the stock that DCR want to operate eqipped with CDL to coaches and Locos with data recorders etc to enable running on Network Rail. I also guess that the speed limit from Okehamton to Crediton is still 40mph.

 

[TEW]

If services ever were to run then presumably it would be with CDL fitted MK2s. And the 31s they propose to use are already in use on the national network so no problems with those.

 

[Drsatan]

Realistically, the Meldon-Bere Alston line would be a very useful diversionary route, would give Tavistock a rail service and might carry a lot of tourists in the summer. However, the sea wall should remain the main line, since it serves Dawlish Warren, Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbott and Torbay. Quite a lot of people live there. Also, it avoids a reversal at Plymouth.

If money was no object it would be possible to build another crossing across the Tamar, with a new line connecting that to the GWML west of Saltash.

Assuming that the GWML is electrified as far as Exeter, would it not make more sense to electrify the route via Oakhampton than along the sea wall? I'm thinking that during a storm water spray might short-circuit the OHL.

 

[jopsuk]

Don't think it causes a huge problem at Saltcoats...

 

[Trainbuff]

I Believe that there arte plans to electrify the Great Western Route. However, the intention initially under the last government was to electrify from Paddington to Swansea through the Severn Tunnel.

With the current cuts this has already been cut back to Bristol. I am not aware of any plans to Electrify to Exeter. Shame.

In these days of Multiple Unit trains reversals pose less of a problem as well. If the route via Exeter was reopened to Plymouth then a reversal would be needed at Exeter AND Plymouth for services going into Cornwall.

Of course if money was not a problem then re dual the Salisbury-Exeter route as well as building a new crossing of the Tamar, though as less traffic travels past Plymouth ( Some starts from Plymouth) it may be reasonable to dispense with the latter crossing. This Salisbury route has the potential to be very fast, as indeed it was in Steam days.

Interestingly the current route via Dawlish is largely 60/65mph, excepting the short stretch at Exminster. The ex LSWR route had a speed restriction for 22 miles between,I believe Bridestowe and Plymouth in Southern days, of 40mph. (Please feel free to correct the start and finish points as I am not 100% certain of these). This was not because the line was not suitable for high speed running, indeed the train to Gunnislake between St Budeaux and Bere Alston now runs at over 50mph in some places (even though maintained as a Branch Line), but purely as an economy measure to save money on maintenace. The Southern Railway had prioritised the North Devon line as the main line and so this was a natural measure.

Speed, if reopened, could be as fast as the current line or indeed faster.

This would indeed be a long way off. The trouble with the current route of course will grow. Not just because of rising sea levels and more storms (the last year, despite our Winter so far is the 2nd hottest on record!), but also because the sand around Dawlish Warren is being steadily eroded. Eventually maintenace costs will become too excessive, though I doubt in my lifetime!

I have also recently read that the DCR has gained a freight licence to operate anywhere in the UK. Is this just for freight or for passenger as well? I found this at the following link in Heritage Traction

http://heritagetraction.co.uk/top-stories/new-freight-operator-licenced

 

[fgwrich]

Here's my post with a couple of ideas i came up with back in June - Also partly discussed in this thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33950&highlight=devon


http://www.kilbridegroup.com/docs/view_news.asp?nid=49

And of course, whilst there is the current Plymouth to Bere Alston & Meldon to Exeter sections, not only would the missing link be the most expensive part, but you would also have to by-pass some parts of Tavistock, and then upgrade the 2 branches in-between...unless it was to be built as a Single Track mainline...

The way i see things, it should be designed and built like this:

Double track all the way from Exeter St Davids to Meldon...

Single tack with Bi -Di signalling from Meldon to Tavistock with at least 1 or two 'Dynamic Loops' with a station at Lydford (on the loop)...

Meeting up with as much Double track from Tavistock back to the junction at St Budeaux, with a rebuilt St Budeaux Victoria Road station...

With local services provided by First great western, and South West Trains running Waterloo to Plymouth services, maybe calling at:

Exeter St Davids,
Crediton,
Yeoford?
Sampford Courtenay,
Okehampton,
Tavistock
Bere Alston,
St Budeaux Victoria Road
Plymouth

And the Gunnislake Branch:

Gunnislake to Tavistock Shuttles with a 153, Tavistock could also be served by a Plymouth Metro - How about looking into re-opening a station near enough to the old Southern station of Plymouth Friary?

Since the ceasing of the oil traffic, the branch from Laira doesn’t receive much use nowadays, and it is after all closer to the Marina side of the city...

So, you could have a Plymouth Metro service operated with say a pairs of 143s/ 150s, Calling at:
Friary,
Plymouth North Road,
Devonport,
Dockyard,
Keyham,
Victoria Road,
Bere Ferres,
Bere Alston,
Tavistock.


Anyway, here’s a FGW Style map I’ve produced...

And whilst BARS / Devon & Cornwall Railway are to start running from Okehampton to St James's Park, the route would also make a great diversionary route from Dawlish & the South Devon mainline for when Engineering works are on, or when the sea wall is closed etc...Whilst opening up a competitive way to get to London from Plymouth & vice versa...

http://ronstruttsrailwaypics.fotopic.net/c1215638.html

Just an idea...But then again & at the end of the day, most of it is never likely to happen...because naturally it all costs loads of...

£ £ £ £ £ £ £


As for the second route option - Exeter to Newton Abbot via Heathfield - Unfortunately, i cannot see any chance of seeing the Teign Valley Line re-opened again...

Why? Because it was largely a single track route with several steeply graded sections, serving only a handful of small villages no doubt better served by Devon General buses, With Several fairly sharp curves on route and as usual, several sections of the route have been built over - the A38 for example uses part of the route from Heathfield to Chudleigh – so although it could still provide a connection to Torquay, Paignton & Dartmouth, I really can’t see the rebuilding and reopening not only ever becoming feasible, but generally re-opening again – All that remains of the route is a short route from Newton Abbot to Heathfield & a short branch to Sims Metal Management Exeter / recycling / scrap yard…

But if the ex Southern Railway route from Exeter to Plymouth were to reopen, hopefully it would as above, with Continuous Welded Rails on steel sleepers, designed and built with higher speeds in mind – 75 to 90 where possible…

 

[fgwrich]

While on the subject of Devon’s railways, another route id like to see some investment in, is the Tarka Line / The Exeter to Barnstaple branch, Barnstaple station & The continuation and reopening of the line to Bideford.

The way to do it, in my opinion, would be to upgrade Barnstaple station first -reopen the second platform to accommodate rail tour length trains, and relay at least one or two of the sidings outside the station - partly for rail tour use and partly for the next phase, Upgrade the Barnstaple branch back to a more Mainline standard - full CWR with steel sleepers, upgrade the speed limit to 75/90 MPH and include at least 1 new Dynamic Passing Loop and extensions to the current passing loops where possible...

Finally, relay the 10 miles of (again using CWR & Steel Sleepers) the former Southern Railway/North Devon railway formation to serve Bideford. Include 1 station for Fremington - which wouldn’t require much other than 1 platform, 1 or two shelters and possibly some parking spaces, and run the service as a Monday to Saturday shuttle service from Barnstaple off peak - timed to connect with the Exeter service, and several peak hour through services from Exeter - possibly splitting at Barnstaple.

Certainly seems more of a feasible and more realistic plan than Devon & Cornwall Railways plan to try to reinstate a line towards Holdsworthy & Bude*!

As good as Bude is, i personally think reinstating a line back towards Bude is too much of a pipedream...Bude station has been redeveloped, as has several parts of the track bed, plus - what type of service would you have along there? It's not really going to become the next commuter land and if anything, another slightly more realistic idea would be to ditch the Bude idea, get a line up to Tavistock from Bere Alston, Continue onto Okehampton and possibly branch out to serve Launceston instead - Thus providing a Plymouth to Tavistock to Launceston service...

Anyway - That’s my couple of pennies thrown into the conversation - Hope it makes sense!

 

[Trainbuff]

I like a lot of what FWRich has to say (How does one become a friend on this site?Lol.).

I have read the earlier thread about the route via Okehampton as a diversionary. I agree it would be absolute madness to dispense with the current main line via dawlish. Not so much because of the commuter traffic from Dawlish, Teignmouth, etc but due to the increased time to Torquay and Paignton, and commuters from from there to Exeter.

I also believe that the old Teign valley line is not acceptable as a diversionary route for many reasons. Though of course if an alternative route were built inland it could be made single track with bi directional signalling as on the up line on the sea wall at the moment when tides are high. Any additional traffic could go via Tavistock and Okehampton. That would leave the direct route to Torbay intact.

Of course, ultimately Double track all the way on the Dartmoor route would be best in the longer term, as would be a double track diversion avoiding the sea wall but nearer to the present route.

I like the idea of double track on the 2 branches. Certainly, linking in with GWRich's thoughts The line from just after Cowley bridge Junction to Coleford junction should be double, particularly if linked in with improvements to the North Devon line as suggested. Crediton signal box could easily be expanded to handle the junction signalling. If these were not dualled then I believe the best place to run Dual track would be from Crediton to Yeoford, and I believe from Bere Alston to Tavistock.

Allied with the passing places as suggested this would allow a reasonable pattern of traffic. Though I must say that upon checking the proposed timetable for the new line to Tavistock, there does not appear to be any coupling/uncoupling at Bere Alston. There are 8 trains to Tavistock and 8 to Gunnislake. The Gunnys operated by class 153's and Tavistock by 150's.

The very reason that this truncated Callington branch survived is because the roads between the Tamar and Tavy rivers are attrocious. I think a shuttle to Tavistock would be a bad plan as this would do away with the direct connection to Plymouth for commuters.

However. In relation to all the foregoing. Why not leave the current Great Western Paddington services running via Dawlish. Alternate Crosscountry services going via Dawlish, then Okehampton. Ie once every 2 hours, with a South West trains running the alternate hour in between. These Crosscountry services would best be operated with Voyagers ( and thus shorter turn around times), giving access to the North and Scotland, and the South West Trains access to London Waterloo.

In between these an hourly stopping service provided by First Great western, coupling/uncoupling at Bere Alston with the Branch Service. These stopping services should call at all stations. I would suggest though that the Crosscountry and South West trains should only call at St Budeaux, Tavistock, Okehampton and Crediton. Those customers from Gunnislake could easily connect at Plymouth.

Reopening a station near Friary sounds great. However. Would a passenger want to stay on a train for another 10 minutes or so. or walk into Town from North Road? As I am a man with local knowledge, ( I also used to be a bus Driver in Plymouth as well as working now on the railway), I do not believe there would be sufficient demand to reopen to near Friary.

I also love the idea of once again upgrading the line to Barnstaple to main line status. Although some of it was always single track, it had structures upgraded to double track ( Before the Southern and Great Western railways had a pact not to develop each of their lines). Last year Great Western increased the frequency of their trains on the Branch. It has seen a 13% rise in passenger numbers in a year as a result. The last trains finish much too early however. last one from Exeter St Davids 9pm.

I would fully support any plans to develop either of the above lines. Are there any Groups that wish to reopen any of the closed sections?

After trawling through local news over the last couple of months, I see that DCR has asked people from Okehampton, Holsworthy and Launceston for their views. Particularly asking about Okehampton as a railhead. Residents at Launceston said if they were going to get in their car they would drive to Exeter instead. Though if there were a line to Launceston they would be more likely to use the train. This again adds credence to opening a Branch from Lydford to Launceston, using the old GWR route.

On a similar note to improving facilities. What about relaying an additional platform line at Newquay. At present, once the train arrives at Newquay, the Guard phones the Signaller at Goonbarrow. Why not have the phone moved to a Ground Frame with the locking and point lever so the Guard can lock the train in before contacting Goonbarrow.

At present on Summer Saturdays, the normal Branch Service is suspended to allow trains from London and The North to travel the Branch. With the above addition (which would not cost much money) the local services could run and there would be extra services in the Summer. In the Winter of course the point would not be needed.

I feel I have gone on much too much. Maybe into 'what if land'

 

[Trainbuff]

APOLOGIES BUT POSTED BEFORE MODERATORS ACCEPTED ABOVE POST!!!!


I believe that the present line must be kept open in the longer term, with rising sea levels etc.

This may entail a single track being built slightly inland to still serve Torbay which has a huge catchment area.

However, ultimately the old LSWR route does give scope for rebuilding. extra capacity can be gained that way.

Perhaps, for example, Great Western could operate services as now from Penzance and Plymouth to London Paddington.

Perhaps if the LSWR route was opened again I would propose, that South West Trains would operate every 2 hours in each direction, with cross country services using the other alternate hour. An hourly service could be provided by crosscountry however by using the current route via Dawlish on one hour and the new route on the other. All Penzance services operated by Crosscountry could go via Dawlish, thus avoiding reversal at Plymouth.

I would also suggest that SWT and XC services only call at Tavistock and Okehampton, (unless of course the spur is opened to Launceston, which raises other exciting opportunities), with FGW operating an all stations local service allowing local stations to connect. This would allow residents of Tavistock and Okehampton to have a direct link with London (waterloo) and The North.

If timed correctly the Gunnislake service could detach from the local service heading to Exeter and re-attach to one coming in the other Direction. This would preserve the direct train to Plymouth. This Branch was retained due to the poor road network in the area and would be wise to retain. The pointwork could be operated towards the Branch by use of the Token and operated by the Guard.

I think the idea of reopening a station near to Friary would be great. however it would be quicker to get off at North road and walk to that area of town. Also as the line to Cattedown Wharves has been truncated at the Scrapyard near laira Bridge, and the line is not currently being used for any scrap trains, it is likely that the line could be closed from the current washplant onward. Though with rising oil costs you never know what will happen, particularly if the Tanker Drivers go on Strike and the Siding is reopened to the old Connoco depot

I agree that the North devon line should have similar improvements made also. It was engineered to Double track in many places but was never improved. This Branch line was in the news over the last year as passenger numbers have been rising steadily by double figure percentages.

I would also suggest that another line be laid in on the Newquay Branch enabling an increase in frequency. Again the point could be operated by the Token used by the Guard, who at present has to call Goonbarrow signaller to inform of arrival and before departure in any case.