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Local services operated by 'express' stock for operational convenience

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nw1

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(This relates to 'normal' pre-Covid timetables, so maybe it should go in the Railway History and Nostalgia thread, I'm not sure - however I'd consider 2019 a little recent for nostalgia!)

Were there, up to 2019, any known instances where a 'local' service of some kind was run by 'express' stock (such as 158s, for example) for operational convenience?

I can think of a scenario where this might make sense. You have a local service from a city to a town in the surrounding area, calling at most or all stops, which only needs to be hourly. It takes 57 minutes. So let's say it leaves the city at xx20, it might arrive at the terminus town at xx17, 5 min turnaround, return at xx22, back in the city station at xx19 - so the timings are 'wrong' for a self-contained service.

Then, you have a 'Regional Express' type service arriving at the city station at say xx55, and leaving at xx45. Thinking of a typical 158-operated service, for example.

Efficient diagramming could then lead to the xx55 regional express going out on the xx20 local stopper, returning at xx19 two hours later, then going out on the xx45 outbound regional express.

Imagine that there are no other local services that the xx20 local could efficiently interwork with, for example imagine all the other locals are half-hourly, but the traffic on this route only justifies hourly.

Perhaps in the peak this doesn't happen, as a) the 158s (or whatever) are then used to double-up the regional express services and b) the local route justifies a half-hourly service in the peak only, meaning that it can become self-contained.

Would be interesting to hear of any actual examples of this sort of diagramming - at any time in the 'modern' (1970-2019) railway.
 
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Bletchleyite

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The Windermere branch is a reasonable example, as the "NorthWest Express" from Manchester then goes on to do one or more shuttles before heading back to Manchester, though more so when it was 156s/175s/185s than 195s which are really multi-purpose "modern day 150s".

WMT seems to diagram the 350s as a single pool now, so you could get anything there, e.g. a /2 on the Crewes or a /1 on the Tring stopper.

Northern of course have somewhat of a "random unit generator" when it comes to 15x, and so 158s turn up on all sorts now, e.g. Ormskirk-Preston.

The Conwy Valley will be operated by 197s (if it hasn't washed away by then) though I suppose those, like 195s, are a bit "dual purpose modern day 150" type things.

TPE are operating stopping services on the TransPennine route using 185s at the moment due to Northern not having enough units.

GWR operates some trains that feel like local stopping services (e.g. the Cotswold line) using 80x because they are bi-mode. And then there are the HSTs operating stoppers in Cornwall.

It's not allowed now due to the slamdoors and droplights, but GWR/FGW also used to operate local services using the Sleeper stock on occasions when they had run short of anything else.
 

plugwash

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i'm fairly sure crosscountry used to run a plymouth to newquay service with a voyager (which then turned round and went to Edinburgh), though it didn't stop at the small stations.
 

The exile

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Many years ago BR ran Ayr - Glasgow with the stick for the Royal Scot. Then there were the 90 + hauled stock workings to North Berwick…
 

Bletchleyite

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A famous emergency one was when there was a derailment at Bletchley which trapped a couple of Pendolinos (but not enough 350s) south of there. A Pendolino was used to run the Tring stopping service.
 

387star

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Barnstaple line having 158s whilst the Portsmouth line gets downgraded stock? Makes my blood boil
 

LowLevel

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EMT used to use a 158 on each of a pair of Mansfield Woodhouse to Nottingham morning peak additionals, both of which continued to Norwich, one as an advertised through service and the other changing headcode at Nottingham.

1L03 did actually get some through custom with quite a lot of school kids from Bulwell/Hucknall travelling to Grantham and the odd through long distance booking.
 

SeanG

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Ignoring Northern's 158s and 156s which are clearly used as such given they have been cascaded, do Northern still have an early morning commuter service in West Yorkshire which is operated by a GC Class 180?
 

ChrisC

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EMT used to use a 158 on each of a pair of Mansfield Woodhouse to Nottingham morning peak additionals, both of which continued to Norwich, one as an advertised through service and the other changing headcode at Nottingham.

1L03 did actually get some through custom with quite a lot of school kids from Bulwell/Hucknall travelling to Grantham and the odd through long distance booking.
An elderly relative of mine used to use it about once a month from Hucknall to Norwich to visit her son in Suffolk. She got some very reasonably priced advance tickets with her Senior Railcard. Even in the middle of winter she would rather stand on a freezing cold Hucknall station in the dark at 7.30am than go later and have to change trains at Nottingham.
 

Nova1

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It's not too rare to see Chiltern running some of the local midlands services with 168s, I've seen them on Stratford runs a few times (usually they use 165s for this)
 

Annetts key

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GWR have used most stock/trains for local/stopping services/commuter services over the years, including 150, 153, 158, 165, 166, HST (43), and 80x.

In the past HST (normal length) and now 80x form services that start early in the morning at either Taunton or Weston-super-Mare and which then form a stopping service on route to Bristol Temple Meads (for the commuter traffic to this city). They then continue as express services to London Paddington.

And the HST 2+4 trains now form a lot of the Cardiff/Bristol/Weston-super-Mare/Taunton stopping/local services. Plus other local services in Devon and Cornwall.
 
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hexagon789

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Many years ago BR ran Ayr - Glasgow with the stick for the Royal Scot.
The stock used to run a morning Glasgow-Ayr commuter before returning as the Royal Scot through to London.

Class 385 Cathcart Circle services
I personally wouldn't call 385s long-distance units, they are designed and used as suburban units essentially even on Edinburgh-Glasgow.


Would be interesting to hear of any actual examples of this sort of diagramming - at any time in the 'modern' (1970-2019) railway.
In 1983 BR extended the Edinburgh-Plymouth HST to start/finish at Dundee.

Southbound from Dundee it ran as a stopping commuter train into Edinburgh, though omitted Ladybank, Markinch and Springfield. Northbound in the evening it ran as an Edinburgh-Dundee stoppper calling everywhere, even tiny Springfield!


When the Highland Chieftain started in 1984 the down service ran as an evening Edinburgh-Inverness stopper northbound from Edinburgh, it called at all stations Perth-Inverness and even at Linlithgow plus Polmont on Saturdays, though not at Dunblane or Gleneagles curiously.
 

miklcct

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The first train from Bournemouth - Weymouth / last train from Weymouth - Bournemouth, listed in the timetable as "local trains", are always run with 444s for the obvious reason that it's a short working for the intercity service to London.
 

Starmill

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It's not allowed now due to the slamdoors and droplights, but GWR/FGW also used to operate local services using the Sleeper stock on occasions when they had run short of anything else.
For some time it had scheduled St Erth - Plymouth and Plymouth - Penzance work on summer Saturdays. Some years it also didba return trip to Exeter St Davids. Shame it's no longer possible.
 

Galvanize

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Before the widespread use of 387s and 700s on the GN routes out of London Kings Cross…Class 365s on peak hour London Kings Cross-Welwyn Garden City semi fast services, better suited to Class 313 or 317 units!
 

hexagon789

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For some time it had scheduled St Erth - Plymouth and Plymouth - Penzance work on summer Saturdays. Some years it also didba return trip to Exeter St Davids. Shame it's no longer possible.
Pity they didn't get the power door mods on the sleeper stock. Presumably then it would be still allowed.
 

bramling

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Before the widespread use of 387s and 700s on the GN routes out of London Kings Cross…Class 365s on peak hour London Kings Cross-Welwyn Garden City semi fast services, better suited to Class 313 or 317 units!

Depending on one's viewpoint, it could be said the 365s were actually more suitable on these services due to the 2+2 and wider aisle. Though not the case for those who would have been happy to take a middle seat. The 365 was quite versatile in that it was reasonably capable of performing any type of work, though of course most suitable for outer suburban.
 

Revilo

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SWR (until recently) effectively ran a morning commuter service into Bristol, serving Keynsham and Oldfield Park with their 158/159
 

swt_passenger

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A few years ago there was a 444 operated Southampton to Portsmouth all stations stopper on the Netley line in the morning peak. Some sort of positioning move. IIRC.

If you‘re classing 158s as express stock, then the Salisbury to Romsey all stations stopper must be an example of a service operated with the wrong type of train. Or the Lymington flyer when 158 operated.
 

southern442

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I'm sure I've seen 444s do Portsmouth to Southampton before (EDIT: been beaten to it!). I've definitely seen one do a Portsmouth - Eastleigh stopper but this could have just been a late night curtailment of what would have been a London service.

I've been on an 800 between Bristol and Patchway, doing what I think would be a Taunton to Cardiff run, it stopped at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road as well.

It also obviously depends on not just the rolling stock but how the operator utilises them. For example on many TOCs a 158 would be considered a long-distance unit but on SWR they operate local services daily (EDIT: beaten to it again!).

Another example of what I'm talking about would be turbostars on marshlink services, or Harrogate line services, when they have previously operated for Hull Trains and Midland Mainline, and in some areas continue to operate intercity services today.
 

D6975

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GWR have used most stock/trains for local/stopping services/commuter services over the years, including 150, 153, 158, 165, 166, HST (43), and 80x.

In the past HST (normal length) and now 80x form services that start early in the morning at either Taunton or Weston-super-Mare and which then form a stopping service on route to Bristol Temple Meads (for the commuter traffic to this city). They then continue as express services to London Paddington.

And the HST 2+4 trains now form a lot of the Cardiff/Bristol/Weston-super-Mare/Taunton stopping/local services. Plus other local services in Devon and Cornwall.
It's not just leading into PADs that IEPs have been used. Late last year an IEP used to spend all day on a Cardiff-Taunton diagram on a Saturday
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Last month for a week, and regularly until 2019, a Waterloo Alton diagram was a 444. One member on here has had a 444 on a Woking stopping service.

158s regularly run on routes formerly operated by 142, 143 and 144 on Northern and GWR now.

170s on the Burley Park line is another good example, not so good for the trains’ engines.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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It's not just leading into PADs that IEPs have been used. Late last year an IEP used to spend all day on a Cardiff-Taunton diagram on a Saturday
While alongside them at Cardiff Central, single 2 carriage 165s trundle all the way to Portsmouth Harbour and single 2 carriage 150s shuffle all the way to Holyhead or Manchester Piccadilly. :(
 
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