friends&family railcard terms

[mick69]

hi all.
Ive had a F&F railcard for a few years now, never had any trouble using it until yesterday,
we got on our train without buying tickets in the office as we were running late and it was just coming in the station,
ticket collector came to us and went to buy ours but she wouldn't let me use our railcard, stating i must buy them at the station if using the railcard , she then charged me for an "anytime" return and wouldn't give me an "off peak" return, not 100% sure of times, buy ive always got off peak tickets for saturdays.
so the fare went from the usual £6.40 to £12.30!
Ive also used it to buy discounted tickets on the train quite a few times in the past without trouble at manned and unmanned stations.
I had a look at the T&C and it states tickets should be bought before, but that sounds like a recommendation more than an order!
are they right or have i just got away with it for a while?

ta, mick

 

[Mojo]

Moved to correct forum.

If the ticket office was open or there were ticket vending machines able to sell you the ticket you require then yes it is the correct course of action, as stated in the Conditions of Carriage to sell only the full priced ticket on board, not off peak and no Railcard discounts.

 

[wintonian]

I does indeed sound like you were charged correctly.

For your information the conditions of carriage that Mojo refers to are here

 

[142094]

One of the common problems I had on Northern was that they used to accept railcards to buy tickets on the train even at staffed stations. Within a couple of weeks they stopped doing this (a few years ago now), so got caught out a few times.

 

[mumrar]

I think it's quite clear having had a look at the Friends & Family Railcard website

5. Tickets for your journey should be purchased
before boarding the train and when buying
tickets you must show the Railcard.

the word should is quite clear, and as already mentioned, under the Conditions of Carriage you have been charged appropriately for the situation in the OP.

It is up to you to allow yourself time to purchase a ticket, and as you just walked up to the station and got straight on, you can have little complaint.

 

[Failed Unit]

Scotrail had the same policy until the vending machines stopped taking cash. Now everything is available on the train again. An open ticket office may not be serving as they may be clearing snow etc.

Of course if the TOC has broke the charter on queuing times it makes matters more complex.

 

[mumrar]

Of course if the TOC has broke the charter on queuing times it makes matters more complex.

Correct but not relevant to the OP.

we got on our train without buying tickets in the office as we were running late and it was just coming in the station

 

[mick69]

ta for the replies, it does look as if ive got away with it a few times in the past, suppose i could argue the train was 2 minutes early, but im not going to start knocking them for that!!
forgot to mention there was 1 of those inspectors or whatever they are that assess the ticket collector, perhaps his presence made her do it to the book

 

[wintonian]

Some guards do seem to be more lenient than others. As you say it was done by the book this time.

 

[mumrar]

Some guards do seem to be more lenient than others. As you say it was done by the book this time.

Well the leniency is a tough call sometimes. I constantly encounter people who wish for bendy flexy rules when they're on the wrong side of them. However, if they've got a bizarre itinerary for cheap off the tinternet or other admin mistakes, people are adamant black is black and white is white and 'rules are rules' to permit their error.

I'd be surprised if the train departed 2 minutes early, was this in regard to a station clock rather than your own timepiece? Errors do happen of course, we are human despite our managers wanting robots.

 

[wintonian]

Well the leniency is a tough call sometimes. I constantly encounter people who wish for bendy flexy rules when they're on the wrong side of them. However, if they've got a bizarre itinerary for cheap off the tinternet or other admin mistakes, people are adamant black is black and white is white and 'rules are rules' to permit their error.

I'd be surprised if the train departed 2 minutes early, was this in regard to a station clock rather than your own timepiece? Errors do happen of course, we are human despite our managers wanting robots.

I'm wondering if the train arrived 2 mins before its scheduled departure time. To most people a train coming in to the platform 2/3 min before departure means they need to run for in case it goes without them – rather like catching the bus.

 

[yorkie]

Not easy to look up after the event as very few people have that access. If someone thinks a train has left early, it's best to ask on here on the day, there is then much more chance of someone being able to find out. I have known trains leave 2 mins early but it is rare.

 

[scotsman]

forgot to mention there was 1 of those inspectors or whatever they are that assess the ticket collector, perhaps his presence made her do it to the book

They should have done what they did anyway. If it was a Revenue Protection Inspector, then they would be assisting the Guard (you called them the Ticket Collector) or doing a random sweep to ensure that everyone had the correct ticket.

 

[paul1609]

I find that it makes a difference if you actively seek out the guard rather than just taking a seat and waiting for him to come round. My local station is unmanned and locals here tend to look for and join the train at the door the guard is operating to make sure they get a ticket by Ashford international. I tend to do that if i havent been able to buy a ticket at manned stations because of queues etc, I cant recall ever being refused a discounted ticket on that basis over a wide selection of TOCs

 

[wintonian]

I find that it makes a difference if you actively seek out the guard rather than just taking a seat and waiting for him to come round. My local station is unmanned and locals here tend to look for and join the train at the door the guard is operating to make sure they get a ticket by Ashford international. I tend to do that if i havent been able to buy a ticket at manned stations because of queues etc, I cant recall ever being refused a discounted ticket on that basis over a wide selection of TOCs

If the station is unmanned or the ticket office is closed and the ticket you wish to buy is not available from the machine then you can buy on-board (after obtaining a permit to travel from the permit to travel machine if available.)

On the other hand if there is for example a long queue and you get on the train and immediately try to find the guard than that shows that you intended to buy a ticket before travel and are actively trying not to evade paying the fare, in which case most guards in my experience tend to be helpful.

 

[Failed Unit]

Not easy to look up after the event as very few people have that access. If someone thinks a train has left early, it's best to ask on here on the day, there is then much more chance of someone being able to find out. I have known trains leave 2 mins early but it is rare.

If you write to the TOC they will let you know. (although what is the point if you didn't miss it). I did this with Scotrail, they admitted it and refunded, got a letter from Mary Dickson on the 2nd occasion. On the 3rd occasion I contacted transport Scotland directly. The next public timetable the departure had moved 3 minutes earlier. I think it was a case of the train crew working to the working timetable which had an earlier departure than the public timetable. It cause a lot of bad feeling at the time, when you missed the first train as it departed 3 minutes early then the next train was cancelled it was not a good start to the day!