Football Supporters Special- Who decides?

[61653 HTAFC]

Last week ( Saturday 5th Feb) Northern ran this additional service between Huddersfield and Barnsley (via Wakefield Kirkgate) for football supporters from the latter. Previously similar services have run for Sheffield Wednesday supporters, but not for previous fixtures involving Barnsley nor every fixture involving SWFC. My questions are essentially the following:

Who decides whether such a service is run, and who ultimately gives the go-ahead? Would it be at the request of the football clubs themselves, their local police force, the hosting police force, or indeed the BTP? Obviously the unit and crew needs to be sourced, so whichever operator is approached to run such a service will need to have those resources available.

 

[55002]

EMR put couple of extras on for Leicester‘s trip to Nottingham last Sunday too. Rare these days. Back in the good old days there were loads about..

 

[Manchester101]

I can’t answer the question I’m afraid, but a contact that I have who is in the WYP told me that the Barnsley fans trashed that northern unit (as well as the boy & barrel).

So whoever it is who makes the decision takes a big risk in terms of potential damage.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I can’t answer the question I’m afraid, but a contact that I have who is in the WYP told me that the Barnsley fans trashed that northern unit (as well as the boy & barrel).

So whoever it is who makes the decision takes a big risk in terms of potential damage.

Well, they've not had much to cheer about this season... and then they had to go back to Barnsley!

They probably improved the Boy & Barrel by trashing it... though some might say the same about a pair of Northern 150s!

 

[Watershed]

Sometimes the club will approach the TOC, but more commonly it will be BTP led intelligence as to the number of expected fans, which results in the TOC asking its funder whether it can run relief services. That's assuming the resources are available.

 

[phil_d]

Sometimes the club will approach the TOC, but more commonly it will be BTP led intelligence as to the number of expected fans, which results in the TOC asking its funder whether it can run relief services. That's assuming the resources are available.

For the Carlisle - Barrow League 2 fixture in 2021, the Barrow police approached Northern to see if there was a possibility of sorting out a 'supporters only' train. Due to path availability, Northern agreed, and a return service Barrow-Carlisle was arranged for the Saturday, both services direct, not stopping anywhere along the coast. A one-off journey then, and in fact the service was open to 'non-football supporters' for the same price as a Barrow-Carlisle day return. Also handy for Saturday shoppers.

 

[RH Liner]

Decades ago I recall a nine coach special from Mansfield to Accrington for an FA Cup tie. Can’t recall whether it was a Black 5 or a Crab up front now, but I do know it carried only 25 passengers. No trouble of course, but no money made either.

 

[Manchester101]

Well, they've not had much to cheer about this season... and then they had to go back to Barnsley!

They probably improved the Boy & Barrel by trashing it... though some might say the same about a pair of Northern 150s!

I thought the same about the boy & barrel!
I believe that it is actually designated as the “away pub” which is a crying shame given the number of good pubs in the area.

It’s nice to see another town fan in the mix by the way…

I recall town once putting on a special to one of the play off finals.
I think it may have been the 2012 final against Sheff U.
I seem to think the price was high and no alcohol allowed on board.

 

[Bevan Price]

Football - and rugby league - specials were quite common until the 1960s for all matches liable to attract big crowds. Even until the 1970s. up to 6 or 7 specials would run from St. Helens to Wembley Central or London Euston if St. Helens were playing in the Rugby League Cup Final, and most of those I saw were well loaded. Back in the 1950s, there were several specials from St.Helens to Wigan for the Good Friday match at Wigan (a sparse Sunday service was normal on most Good Fridays.)

 

[Magdalia]

Sometimes planning permission for stadia relocation or redevelopment can include requirements to provide financial support for public transport. When Arsenal moved to Ashburton Grove they funded additional trains to/from Finsbury Park. I think the same happened with Tottenham at White Hart Lane.

Football - and rugby league - specials were quite common until the 1960s for all matches liable to attract big crowds. Even until the 1970s. up to 6 or 7 specials would run from St. Helens to Wembley Central or London Euston if St. Helens were playing in the Rugby League Cup Final, and most of those I saw were well loaded. Back in the 1950s, there were several specials from St.Helens to Wigan for the Good Friday match at Wigan (a sparse Sunday service was normal on most Good Fridays.)

This was significantly reduced when Dr Beeching got rid of most of the rolling stock that formed such trains.

 

[Bluejays]

Always wondered who would foot the bill if a class 800 got trashed on a football or rugby special. Can't imagine Hitachi would be too happy about dealing with the repairs

 

[greyman42]

Always wondered who would foot the bill if a class 800 got trashed on a football or rugby special. Can't imagine Hitachi would be too happy about dealing with the repairs

Chelsea and Tottenham have both hired one of the luxury sets pre-Covid. I think it was the Northern Belle.
One of the London clubs also hired a Pendolino for a Liverpool match.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Always wondered who would foot the bill if a class 800 got trashed on a football or rugby special. Can't imagine Hitachi would be too happy about dealing with the repairs

Several trains were trashed over the weekend (according to the Sunday Times) - and particular comment was made on blatant cocaine taking on rain services and they specifically mentioned Nottingham , results from blocks and sniffer dogs were such that a number of discarded bags were found before "meeting" the dogs or the revenue checkers.

So basically down to the operators to pay for any damage. Amazingly - in my time for the North London patch , with old Wembley - there was very little damage to the DC and AC trains. Plenty of clearing up to do though.

 

[55002]

Football - and rugby league - specials were quite common until the 1960s for all matches liable to attract big crowds. Even until the 1970s. up to 6 or 7 specials would run from St. Helens to Wembley Central or London Euston if St. Helens were playing in the Rugby League Cup Final, and most of those I saw were well loaded. Back in the 1950s, there were several specials from St.Helens to Wigan for the Good Friday match at Wigan (a sparse Sunday service was normal on most Good Fridays.)

The challenge cup finals saw rugby specials from all over north down to London well into the 80s..

 

[furnessvale]

I can’t answer the question I’m afraid, but a contact that I have who is in the WYP told me that the Barnsley fans trashed that northern unit (as well as the boy & barrel).

So whoever it is who makes the decision takes a big risk in terms of potential damage.

I don't know if it is still the case, but in the old days a major driver in laying on football specials was the desire to keep "fans" away from civilised people by putting them on their own trains rather than using service trains.

Another factor was a smashed special of old stock was cheaper than a smashed up first line service train. Sadly I don't think the old stock is now available for such services.

 

[SJL2020]

I recall that MCFC chartered Virgin to run a series of specials during the 2016 Chumps League campaign.

The service enabled London-based fans to get back from Piccadilly to Euston after the game.

 

[diffident]

Chiltern are generally very good when there's events on at Wembley Stadium strengthening trains and running extras. On the occasions I've been heading to Wembley (pre-covid) for a final on a Sunday there has been an, in my opinion, better-than weekday service heading down from Birmingham Moor Street!

 

[Taunton]

I don't know if it is still the case, but in the old days a major driver in laying on football specials was the desire to keep "fans" away from civilised people by putting them on their own trains rather than using service trains.

Another factor was a smashed special of old stock was cheaper than a smashed up first line service train. Sadly I don't think the old stock is now available for such services.

Think I wrote about this before, but in the 1970s I saw my last maroon-livery Mk1 stock ever. Didn't know there was any still about. It was coming into Haymarket, in Edinburgh, from Glasgow, headed by a Class 27. Probably one of the Glasgow teams come to play Hearts. I presume the police in Glasgow had somehow managed to segregate the fans onto this from the frequent Glasgow-Edinburgh push-pull service of the era. Doubtless a Glasgow reserve stock rake, but I never saw any other vehicles still maroon in the carriage sidings at Cowlairs. I think railway police had travelled with the train.

Interesting was the variety of heads, arms, legs, and (I regret to say) buttocks presented from the droplights as it rolled in, but the most notable was a pair of trousers being held out of one of the windows. I wonder if the unfortunate owner managed to recover them.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I thought the same about the boy & barrel!
I believe that it is actually designated as the “away pub” which is a crying shame given the number of good pubs in the area.

It’s nice to see another town fan in the mix by the way…

I recall town once putting on a special to one of the play off finals.
I think it may have been the 2012 final against Sheff U.
I seem to think the price was high and no alcohol allowed on board.

The Parish used to be set aside for away fans at the old location opposite the Parish church, don't know if it still is at the new location by the theatre. That said, most pubs in Huddersfield will accept home and away fans, unless it's a particularly contentious game.

Football specials do seem more likely for things like play-off and cup finals, was just pleasantly surprised that one was organised for a regular FA Cup 4th round tie between two fairly unglamorous teams separated by only 20 miles, whose rivalry is (mostly) amicable.

As far as trashing the train goes, unfortunately you can't educate pork... and there's always one or two idiots in any group that can spoil it for everyone else. If anything that's more likely to happen on a dedicated (and thus segregated) service. That said if there hadn't been this special for the Barnsley fans, the regular Penistone line services would have been swamped.

That makes three Town fans I know of on here, including myself.

 

[LancasterRed]

Preston North End, when sponsored by Virgin, would have a special train on for some games in the South. Northern run special services to Blackburn too.

Carlisle and Barrow will have bolstered services for their fixtures.

Going away from trains and onto trams, Manchester City I believe have an expanded tram service on match day but I may be misguided.

 

[greyman42]

I recall that MCFC chartered Virgin to run a series of specials during the 2016 Chumps League campaign.

The service enabled London-based fans to get back from Piccadilly to Euston after the game.

Surprised there was the demand!

 

[75A]

Remember back in the 70's, Brighton had a home evening game with local 'friends' Crystal Palace.
A 12 car service train arrived at Hove with a couple of coaches in the middle 4 car trashed.

This was taken out at West Worthing with the rear unit and the front 4 went on to it's destination which was Littlehampton.

Control quickly made some phone calls and by the time the match had finished, a Brighton spare crew had put together 4 2 Hap units which ran non stop from Hove to East Croydon and then terminated @ Norwood Junction, before running ECS to Lovers Walk. Happy days.

 

[Tramfan]

Preston North End, when sponsored by Virgin, would have a special train on for some games in the South. Northern run special services to Blackburn too.

Carlisle and Barrow will have bolstered services for their fixtures.

Going away from trains and onto trams, Manchester City I believe have an expanded tram service on match day but I may be misguided.

Metrolink certainly strengthen the normally mostly single tram operated Piccadilly - Altrincham service to doubles on Man Utd matchdays