Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[AM9]

... HEx will be 4tph until at least Autumn 2028 - as that is what they’ve committed to and to all intents and purposes already paid for.

They've paid for in acress terms but if receipts are low might they still abandon the service to avoid the losses of train leases and staff costs?

 

[matt_world2004]

It needs two rewrites.

One to tie in the GWML reliefs to the core (and then to the GEML E lines).

The second to provide for the additional Heathrow services, which can only be delivered through tightening up the running times on the whole system to release more resources. This is done by taking advantage of the sharper sectional running times available with the 345s*, and autoreverse, etc.

*You wouldn’t want to tighten up running times etc right from the off - you want to be sure the linked up timetable works first, and using the old running times provides some performance margin whilst everything beds in.

I thought the may timetable for tfl rail enabled through running

 

[Bald Rick]

I thought the may timetable for tfl rail enabled through running

May 22 yes.

Of course the timetable is one thing, the big work is in all the diagramming and rosters that happens behind it. Changing those for through running is a big, big, activity.

 

[JN114]

It needs two rewrites.

One to tie in the GWML reliefs to the core (and then to the GEML E lines).

The second to provide for the additional Heathrow services, which can only be delivered through tightening up the running times on the whole system to release more resources. This is done by taking advantage of the sharper sectional running times available with the 345s*, and autoreverse, etc.

*You wouldn’t want to tighten up running times etc right from the off - you want to be sure the linked up timetable works first, and using the old running times provides some performance margin whilst everything beds in.

Two rewrites for MTR, yes. Forgive me if we’re talking at cross purposes but the inference upthread was that the whole GWML timetable - Mains and Reliefs - would need to be rewritten. With suggestions of it needing calls removing from the off peak GWR services and so forth…

My understanding; and that which was “sold” for lack of a better phrasing when we were implementing the Dec 19 timetable was that for GWR/HEx and (presumably) freight - it’s all through-running ready; perhaps a few minor timing tweaks - but we essentially created clear gaps on the reliefs for Crossrail to run whatever trains and calling patterns they wished, in whatever paths they wanted to shoe-horn into those gaps.

That’s why for example the Didcot stoppers have long dwells at Reading, to marry their long term paths west and east of the station together.

 

[Bald Rick]

Two rewrites for MTR, yes. Forgive me if we’re talking at cross purposes but the inference upthread was that the whole GWML timetable - Mains and Reliefs - would need to be rewritten. With suggestions of it needing calls removing from the off peak GWR services and so forth…

My understanding; and that which was “sold” for lack of a better phrasing when we were implementing the Dec 19 timetable was that for GWR/HEx and (presumably) freight - it’s all through-running ready; perhaps a few minor timing tweaks - but we essentially created clear gaps on the reliefs for Crossrail to run whatever trains and calling patterns they wished, in whatever paths they wanted to shoe-horn into those gaps.

That’s why for example the Didcot stoppers have long dwells at Reading, to marry their long term paths west and east of the station together.

Ah yes, that’s right.

 

[JN114]

They've paid for in acress terms but if receipts are low might they still abandon the service to avoid the losses of train leases and staff costs?

I don’t know the details (and it’s likely all commercially sensitive so I will stress here it’s pure here say and speculation) but I understand those costs are all baked into the management fee HEx / Heathrow pay GWR to run Heathrow Express - and that arrangement is contracted to run until at least 2028. Given the considerable cost of the modifications to the 387s for Heathrow service; (and the reverse that would have to happen if they did throw in the towel) - while yes all contracts have break points I can’t see it being a cheap out for HEx / Heathrow to abandon it.

That’s setting aside my firm belief that Crossrail will barely leave a dent on HEx passenger numbers. But all that is largely for another thread, which I’ve made my points in previously.

 

[Taunton]

Aren’t HEx also using 110 mph 387s now?

Possibly capable. But you will never get over 100mph between Airport Junction and Paddington.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2022 ==

HEx will be 4tph until at least Autumn 2028 - as that is what they’ve committed to and to all intents and purposes already paid for.

Potentially. But contracts can be changed. Possibly with a payment either way, or not. Given the state of flux with Heathrow passenger numbers, it may well now be to the advantage of all sides to do something different.

 

[JN114]

Possibly capable. But you will never get over 100mph between Airport Junction and Paddington.

They’re routinely doing 110mph by the time they’re through the platform at Hayes - the performance of the 387s is astonishing compared to their elderly CAF/Siemens predecessors.

 

[Mollman]

One does wonder how this is going to work on the GWML. Two pairs of tracks, paired by use (always more difficult for crossing movements) with six different speed bands of trains.

- 125mph expresses
- 110mph emus running fast intermediate services (never part of the original plan)
- 100mph Heathrow Express

- GW outer suburban semi-fast services
- Crossrail, all/most stations stopping
- Heavy freight (probably the greatest tonnage of any line into London). Stone trains, Freightliners, etc

In particular there are eastbound heavy stone trains, slowing to stop at Acton Yard, being followed all the way from Reading by Crossrail, who to interleave as planned at Paddington have to present there at better than to-the-minute accuracy.

Won't the 'fast intermediate services' return to 80Xs once the cracking issue is sorted?

 

[Roast Veg]

They’re routinely doing 110mph by the time they’re through the platform at Hayes - the performance of the 387s is astonishing compared to their elderly CAF/Siemens predecessors.

Are they waiting time at both ends?

 

[Horizon22]

The Dec 19 timetable on the GW/HEx/Freight side was supposed to be passively ready for Crossrail through running (at least that’s how it was sold to us in control), and the enhancements to service frequencies on the Crossrail services to be achieved purely by rejigging their own paths on the reliefs.

HEx will be 4tph until at least Autumn 2028 - as that is what they’ve committed to and to all intents and purposes already paid for.

Well aware that they're committed to it, its whether that will be worth their money over time with passenger numbers. And yes regarding the rewrite I was referring to the relief lines on both East and West sides to marry up with through running.

As an aside, there's no real ETA for Terminal 4 reopening, which is causing a restriction on operations although one would expect this summer might see it reopen.

 

[43102EMR]

Possibly capable. But you will never get over 100mph between Airport Junction and Paddington.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2022 ==


Potentially. But contracts can be changed. Possibly with a payment either way, or not. Given the state of flux with Heathrow passenger numbers, it may well now be to the advantage of all sides to do something different.

110mph has been reached when I rode on them a while back - usually between Ealing Broadway and Hayes.

 

[Bald Rick]

Possibly capable. But you will never get over 100mph between Airport Junction and Paddington.

they do, easily!

 

[theking]

Anyone know why the geml/tfl rail is closed out of Liverpool Street sat and sun for the rest of feb and pretty much the whole of March when we've already had to suffer 3 years of weekend closures.

 

[YSTrains]

So, when the central section opens, the brand 'TfL Rail' will be dropped in favour of the Elizabeth Line. How will they announce the services on both mainline and the central section?

 

[rebmcr]

Anyone know why the geml/tfl rail is closed out of Liverpool Street sat and sun for the rest of feb and pretty much the whole of March when we've already had to suffer 3 years of weekend closures.

Testing the route between Stratford and Whitechapel, in a range of situations.

 

[43102EMR]

So, when the central section opens, the brand 'TfL Rail' will be dropped in favour of the Elizabeth Line. How will they announce the services on both mainline and the central section?

I’ve been wandering that myself - maybe they’ll just say “Elizabeth Line”? Seems to work with the tube, even though it won’t have the same ring to it as TfL Rail…

 

[matt_world2004]

So, when the central section opens, the brand 'TfL Rail' will be dropped in favour of the Elizabeth Line. How will they announce the services on both mainline and the central section?

I believe they will announce them all as Elizabeth line. There was talk at some point that the peak extras into Liverpool Street would have kept the name "tfl rail" but I believe that was the plan when they were to be run by the residual 7 car trains which is no longer the case

 

[YSTrains]

That would be very interesting to hear Anne announcing 'Elizabeth Line'.

 

[Snow1964]

Anyone know why the geml/tfl rail is closed out of Liverpool Street sat and sun for the rest of feb and pretty much the whole of March when we've already had to suffer 3 years of weekend closures.

If the latest TfL usage figures are to be believed, people are now going back to work Tuesday-Thursday. Weekend usage is back up compared to pre-Covid. But Mondays and Fridays are still quiet.

Makes you wonder what bright spark opted to do testing on the busier weekend days rather than the nowadays quiet Monday and Friday, or Sunday and Monday. My only thought is old habits trumped common sense.

 

[Bald Rick]

If the latest TfL usage figures are to be believed, people are now going back to work Tuesday-Thursday. Weekend usage is back up compared to pre-Covid. But Mondays and Fridays are still quiet.

Makes you wonder what bright spark opted to do testing on the busier weekend days rather than the nowadays quiet Monday and Friday. My only thought is old habits trumped common sense.

Friday is the busiest day on the heavy rail network.

 

[Taunton]

Makes you wonder what bright spark opted to do testing on the busier weekend days rather than the nowadays quiet Monday and Friday, or Sunday and Monday. My only thought is old habits trumped common sense.

Or between midnight and 5am, which is what I knew (not too far) overseas.

And does it really need two months of full weekends to just test a one-station section, between Whitechapel and Stratford?

 

[hwl]

Or between midnight and 5am, which is what I knew (not too far) overseas.

And does it really need two months of full weekends to just test a one-station section, between Whitechapel and Stratford?

The GEML closures are just the w/e of 12/13th March and 19th/20th of March. All the preceding weekends (or sometime just Sundays) just affect GWML TfL rail services and are often service reductions (e.g. no trains before before 0615 Saturdays or 0800 Sundays to allow more overnight work) or all day station closures e.g. Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell.

I suspect someone read "TfL rail partial closure" and assumed it much always involve the GEML side.

Doesn't one of the crossovers near Stratford still need some work?
Hence it would be a case of getting that fixed then test or if they haven't fixed it testing is then much more disruptive?

 

[Horizon22]

Friday is the busiest day on the heavy rail network.

Certainly didn't appear that way yesterday in the morning - noticably less people. However it may be gradually off-set throughout the day by off-peak travellers.

 

[hwl]

I believe they will announce them all as Elizabeth line. There was talk at some point that the peak extras into Liverpool Street would have kept the name "tfl rail" but I believe that was the plan when they were to be run by the residual 7 car trains which is no longer the case

Residual 7 car was only ever for the short term and they would all have been 9 car for while if everything had gone to plan, it was just temporary till the LST high level platform works were to have been completed.

 

[matt_world2004]

Residual 7 car was only ever for the short term and they would all have been 9 car for while if everything had gone to plan, it was just temporary till the LST high level platform works were to have been completed.

Yeah it would have only been a transitional name while the 7 cars remained probably because they would have been isolated from the core duties.
.the original plan was to convert the platforms at Liverpool Street while trains started running through the core

 

[theking]

The GEML closures are just the w/e of 12/13th March and 19th/20th of March. All the preceding weekends (or sometime just Sundays) just affect GWML TfL rail services

I suspect someone read "TfL rail partial closure" and assumed it much always involve the GEML side.

No I can read

The below is from the TFL website which says Correct at date of publication 10 February 2022

Sat 12th & Sun 13th Feb CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield.

Sat 19th & Sun 20th Feb CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield.

Sat 26th & Sun 27th Feb CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield.

So pretty much the whole of February.

Sat 12th & Sun 13th March CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield

Sat 19th & Sun 20th March CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield

Sat 26th & Sun 27th March CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield

So again 3/4 weekends of the month.

 

[iphone76]

Testing the route between Stratford and Whitechapel, in a range of situations.

Are you sure? We've all been sent to the west to learn the route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2022 ==

The GEML closures are just the w/e of 12/13th March and 19th/20th of March. All the preceding weekends (or sometime just Sundays) just affect GWML TfL rail services and are often service reductions (e.g. no trains before before 0615 Saturdays or 0800 Sundays to allow more overnight work) or all day station closures e.g. Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell.

I suspect someone read "TfL rail partial closure" and assumed it much always involve the GEML side.

Doesn't one of the crossovers near Stratford still need some work?
Hence it would be a case of getting that fixed then test or if they haven't fixed it testing is then much more disruptive?

The crossovers at Stratford are in place. Pretty much no weekend GEML trains now until April.

 

[Bald Rick]

Certainly didn't appear that way yesterday in the morning - noticably less people. However it may be gradually off-set throughout the day by off-peak travellers.

the morning is quieter, but from lunch time onwards it really picks up

but the Friday mornings were always quieter - typically 20% less than Wednesday

 

[hwl]

No I can read

The below is from the TFL website which says Correct at date of publication 10 February 2022

Sat 12th & Sun 13th Feb CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield.

Sat 19th & Sun 20th Feb CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield.

Sat 26th & Sun 27th Feb CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield.

So pretty much the whole of February.

Sat 12th & Sun 13th March CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield

Sat 19th & Sun 20th March CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield

Sat 26th & Sun 27th March CLOSED London Liverpool Street to Shenfield

So again 3/4 weekends of the month.

But this bit of the TfL website https://tfl.gov.uk/status-updates/planned-works-calendar says this:

Reduced Service - TfL Rail line Saturday 12 February and Sunday 13 February
TFL RAIL: Saturday 12 February, from 2215 and all day Sunday 13 February, a reduced frequency, four trains an hour, operates between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington. Trains will not call at Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell. Paddington to Reading trains are retimed on Sunday.

Part Closure - TfL Rail line Saturday 19 and Sunday 20 February
TFL RAIL: From 2215 Saturday 19 and until 1415 Sunday 20 February, a reduced frequency, four trains an hour, operates all day between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington. Trains will not call at Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell. On Sunday, services at 0007 0511 0541 and 0611 from Paddington to Heathrow and 0600 from Heathrow to Paddington will not operate. In addition, until 0750 Sunday, no service between Paddington and Ealing Broadway, please use London Underground connections. Paddington to Reading trains are retimed all day.


Part Closure - TfL Rail line Sunday 27 February
TFL RAIL: From 2215 Saturday 26 and until 1415 Sunday 27 February, a reduced frequency, four trains an hour, operates all day between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington. Trains will not call at Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell. On Sunday, services at 0007 0511 0541 and 0611 from Paddington to Heathrow and 0600 from Heathrow to Paddington will not operate. In addition, until 0750 Sunday, no service between Paddington and Ealing Broadway, please use London Underground connections. Paddington to Reading trains are retimed all day.


Part Closure - TfL Rail line Sunday 06 March
TFL RAIL: Sunday 6 March, a reduced frequency, four trains an hour, operates all day between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington. Trains will not call at Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell. On Sunday, services at 0007 0511 0541 and 0611 from Paddington to Heathrow and 0600 from Heathrow to Paddington will not operate. In addition, until 0750 Sunday, no service between Paddington and Ealing Broadway, please use London Underground connections. Paddington to Reading trains are retimed all day.

Part Closure - TfL Rail line Saturday 12 March and Sunday 13 March
TFL RAIL: Saturday 12 and Sunday 13 March, no service between Liverpool Street and Shenfield. Please use London Underground connections between Liverpool Street and Stratford. Replacement buses operate

Part Closure - TfL Rail line Saturday 19 andf Sunday 20 March
TFL RAIL: Saturday 19 and Sunday 20 March, no service between Liverpool Street and Shenfield. Please use London Underground connections between Liverpool Street and Stratford. Replacement buses operate.

Hence TfL isn't that good at keeping the Status update up-to-date....