Longest through journeys for first generation DMU sets

[Cheshire Scot]

(Apologies for being slightly OT, as you can't actually get a run at any of these. In theory the Summer dated Glasgow-Oban DMU should have been able to get a run at the 1 in 58 gradient from Craigendoran Junction to Helensburgh Upper, but the 25 mph PSR at the bottom of the bank and the necessity to pick up the single line token manually prevented this).

Plus the approach controlled junction signal brought the speed down to below 25mph.

 

[Bevan Price]

I had the misfortune to have an 8 coach dmu formation from Aberdeen to Glasgow Buchanan Street on a Summer Saturday in 1961. I would have waited for something better, but had arranged to meet my parents after getting to Glasgow, and had not anticipated finding a dmu on such a working.

The dmu was 2 x 3 coaches of what became Class 107, with a 2 coach dmu in the middle (can't remember if that was a MetCam or Cravens set without checking my old records).

 

[Magdalia]

Another ER route with very long distance DMU working was the GN+GE Joint Line, which lost its daily loco hauled trains in 1973. Most trains were Cambridge-Doncaster, a distance of about 127 miles. But for a while the first up train started from York to give a total distance of 159 miles. Later the afternoon up train started from Sheffield, about 142 miles to Cambridge.

 

[The exile]

Mention of Weston-Super-Mare reminds me of what I think is one of the most noteworthy long distance DMU workings. On 1979 summer Saturdays there was a 0900 Birmingham to Weston-Super-Mare and 1158 return, booked for a pair of Tyseley low density 3 car DMUs. The return was booked non-stop Bristol Temple Meads-Birmingham New Street, possibly the longest non-stop run for a 1st generation DMU. It was allowed 2 hours for this, I don't know if that's enough to avoid the Lickey incline

Even if you route via Stourbridge to avoid Lickey, Old Hill is not insignificant ( although more familiar DMU territory!)

 

[AY1975]

Class 124? Nice enough units, but I remember them as rather run down and scruffy towards the end. Mixed with class 123 eventually, also rather past their best by the early 80s!

The 123s and 124s were also used on the short-lived Hull-Lancaster trains for their last few years of service in the early 80s, and after withdrawal in 1984 they were replaced by Class 31-hauled trains on this route just like on the Manchester-Sheffield-Hull/Cleethorpes route.

 

[matchmaker]

Plus the approach controlled junction signal brought the speed down to below 25mph.

I have (somewhere) a photo of a token pickup at Craigendoran by a Class 26 on a Mallaig service. Watching the train approach, you could tell when the signal cleared, as there was an absolute eruption of 6LDA28 thrash!

 

[david1212]

I have just one personal memory. I can't recall the year but it would have been 1972 - 1977 very latest but most likely earlier so around age 10.

This was a Cotswold Line Merrymaker to Blackpool South for the illuminations. I wonder if South was stated on the flyer or just Blackpool so arrival / departure was expected to be at North. Rather than the expected loco, normally a 47, and stock it was a collection of DMU's. I don't know if it started back at Oxford or only perhaps Moreton-in-Marsh. Bromsgrove was a pick-up. The coaches were not labelled which by Bromsgrove was a problem. On the return the labels had been stuck up.
The combined set made it up and back, 350+ miles excluding ecs, but not a pleasant experience compared to the normal MK1 or occasionally early MK2 stock. I can't recall if any catering provision as normal on a Merrymaker but we had coffee's etc on the seafront before going to the train. Would South then have had left luggage lockers? On Merrymakers we often left a bag of food & flasks but for Blackpool may not have done. When did left luggage lockers get removed due to the activities of the IRA ?

 

[D6130]

I have (somewhere) a photo of a token pickup at Craigendoran by a Class 26 on a Mallaig service.

Was it really a 26?....or more likely a 27. Whichever, the eruption would have been equally impressive!

 

[matchmaker]

Was it really a 26?....or more likely a 27. Whichever, the eruption would have been equally impressive!

Could have been a 27 - it was certainly a BRCW product. My photo is a side on view at the exact moment the secondman grabbed the token hoop from the signalman.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Could have been a 27 - it was certainly a BRCW product. My photo is a side on view at the exact moment the secondman grabbed the token hoop from the signalman.

Any idea what year? - just in case the signalman was me!

EDIT: 27's had windows in the cab doors which meant to collect on the drivers side either the driver or secondman could take the token (usually the driver), 26s did not have windows in the door (they had been plated over years before) which meant it had to be the driver unless the secondman stood at the open door to take it.

 

[matchmaker]

Any idea what year? - just in case the signalman was me!

EDIT: 27's had windows in the cab doors which meant to collect on the drivers side either the driver or secondman could take the token (usually the driver), 26s did not have windows in the door (they had been plated over years before) which meant it had to be the driver unless the secondman stood at the open door to take it.

Early 1970s. I'll need to trace the photo.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Early 1970s. I'll need to trace the photo.

I was still in school then!

 

[AY1975]

I have just one personal memory. I can't recall the year but it would have been 1972 - 1977 very latest but most likely earlier so around age 10.

This was a Cotswold Line Merrymaker to Blackpool South for the illuminations. I wonder if South was stated on the flyer or just Blackpool so arrival / departure was expected to be at North. Rather than the expected loco, normally a 47, and stock it was a collection of DMU's. I don't know if it started back at Oxford or only perhaps Moreton-in-Marsh. Bromsgrove was a pick-up. The coaches were not labelled which by Bromsgrove was a problem. On the return the labels had been stuck up.
The combined set made it up and back, 350+ miles excluding ecs, but not a pleasant experience compared to the normal MK1 or occasionally early MK2 stock. I can't recall if any catering provision as normal on a Merrymaker but we had coffee's etc on the seafront before going to the train. Would South then have had left luggage lockers? On Merrymakers we often left a bag of food & flasks but for Blackpool may not have done. When did left luggage lockers get removed due to the activities of the IRA ?

Can you remember what class or classes of DMU were used on your excursion, or even what door and window or seating layout they had (2+2 or 3+2, saloon or compartments)?

In the Wikipedia entry for Blackpool South station there's a photo showing the station building still intact in 1983. That doesn't necessarily mean that the station was still staffed by then, though. I knew someone who is now no longer with us who remembered travelling from Blackpool South to Manchester Victoria on a Class 124 Trans-Pennine DMU in about 1970 (they used to work the Blackpool-Manchester "Club Trains" around that time, I believe) and he seemed to think Blackpool South was already unstaffed as early as that, but rather than the guard coming round to issue tickets on the train you simply paid your fare at the barrier at your destination.

In terms of the removal of left luggage lockers for security reasons, I first remember that happening in the early 1990s, but that's not to say it didn't happen earlier than that in some places.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Sometime in the mid 1970s I went on a railtour from Glasgow Queen St formed of 3 car class101. We headed for Perth and then up the Strathmore route to Forfar, by then freight only, back to Perth and onwards via Dundee to Kinnaber Junction for a trip to Brechin and back, then through Aberdeen to Kittybrewster to take in the Aberdeen Waterloo branch then onwards to Dyce and up to Fraserburgh. The total mileage for that day must have been not far short of 500.

 

[Western 52]

Certainly some long DMU turns highlighted in this thread. What was the expected range of these units between refuelling stops?

 

[D6968]

Towards their end a railtour with Hastings demus ran from Hastings, via Victoria, and to Carlisle via the S&C, and back via the WCML. I believe it took the best part of 24 hours, and must surely be the longest traditional diesel trip of all.

Wasn’t there plans to do a tour with a Hastings Unit using the train ferry to France?

 

[D6130]

Wasn’t there plans to do a tour with a Hastings Unit using the train ferry to France?

Can't see how that would have worked. They would have had to be fitted with French cab signalling equipment and Flaman speed recorders to operate on SNCF track....unless hauled by an SNCF loco. The whole exercise would have been monstrously expensive.

 

[Beebman]

Wasn’t there plans to do a tour with a Hastings Unit using the train ferry to France?

Yes there were plans, it was organised by the D&EG and it was to be called 'The Night Ferry Voyager'. It would have run to Paris Nord via Dunkerque and it was scheduled for 14-15 September 1985:

https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/850914se.htm

Bookings opened for it and indeed I was booked on it but it was cancelled about a month before.

Can't see how that would have worked. They would have had to be fitted with French cab signalling equipment and Flaman speed recorders to operate on SNCF track....unless hauled by an SNCF loco. The whole exercise would have been monstrously expensive.

A reason was never given for the cancellation but ISTR being told that the problem did *not* come from SNCF.

 

[D6130]

A reason was never given for the cancellation but ISTR being told that the problem did *not* come from SNCF.

Another potential problem may have been the weight of the power cars on the linkspans. I know that locos were prohibited and that the 09s used to shunt rolling stock on and off the ferries had to be coupled to barriers vehicles. I similar system still applies today with the Italy-Sicily train ferries.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Another potential problem may have been the weight of the power cars on the linkspans. I know that locos were prohibited and that the 09s used to shunt rolling stock on and off the ferries had to be coupled to barriers vehicles. I similar system still applies today with the Italy-Sicily train ferries.

There is a photo in the book 'Night Ferry' of a class 09 actually on the train ferry deck, also reference to 'match trucks' being no longer used in a 1954 photo of a steam loco (C class) actually on the link span and quoted as being allowed onto the ship. Only one photo of Dunkirk and not clear from that whether match wagons were required.

EDIT - the class 09 would be a similar weight to an individual sleeping car, albeit shorter and on three axles rather than four.

In Denmark I experienced a main line loco actually coming a few metres onto the ferry at Korsor (perhaps the bogie was on the link span which could more obviously bear the weight) to buffer up to the coaches, then brake test and next stop Copenhagen .

 

[Graham H]

Another potential problem may have been the weight of the power cars on the linkspans. I know that locos were prohibited and that the 09s used to shunt rolling stock on and off the ferries had to be coupled to barriers vehicles. I similar system still applies today with the Italy-Sicily train ferries.

Theres video on You Tube which seems to show class 33 on the ferry

and at around 11 mins 30 it really does look like one 33 leaves the boat and climbs the incline of the link span on its own, As others posted I thought they had to maintain balance and worked in parallel

 

[david1212]

Can you remember what class or classes of DMU were used on your excursion, or even what door and window or seating layout they had (2+2 or 3+2, saloon or compartments)?

In the Wikipedia entry for Blackpool South station there's a photo showing the station building still intact in 1983. That doesn't necessarily mean that the station was still staffed by then, though. I knew someone who is now no longer with us who remembered travelling from Blackpool South to Manchester Victoria on a Class 124 Trans-Pennine DMU in about 1970 (they used to work the Blackpool-Manchester "Club Trains" around that time, I believe) and he seemed to think Blackpool South was already unstaffed as early as that, but rather than the guard coming round to issue tickets on the train you simply paid your fare at the barrier at your destination.

In terms of the removal of left luggage lockers for security reasons, I first remember that happening in the early 1990s, but that's not to say it didn't happen earlier than that in some places.

Sadly I do not know the DMU class(es) and something over the years I have pondered. I do recall at least outward saloon rather than compartments. Given the return was around midnight, after the last service train ?, and people would reasonably want to sleep 3 + 2 seating or low back suburban 2 + 2 if it existed would be totally inappropriate. In the powered vehicles there would have been the noise regardless. Even pathed on the slow lines so potentially limited by other trains northbound logically the return would have been full throttle / set speed limit for most of at least Preston - Wolverhampton. I can't recall if were were in powered or trailer cars either way. Outward Dad would have tried to work out the correct seats but maybe either unknown was working from the wrong end or we found what were thought to be the booked seats already occupied so just took what was free within the unit. I have thought about 119/120 Cross-Country and 123 Inter-City sets. As Class 115's were non corridor and limited access to toilets as well as 3 + 2 surely not suitable.

The reason given was BR were using these sets due to damage / vandalism in the past.
Operationally BR had to find crews to cover both traction and route knowledge even if the latter covered by a pilotman.

While the main station of course was Central I would have thought the platforms at the old South would have been long yet recall getting on from the platform end slope. That potentially implies as a train not corridor throughout so not 123 units. I recall we were early allowing for the 00:00 ish departure time and the train was not lit inside. Maybe it had to draw up before departure ?

I think it was an earlier trip but had this also been the day I had ' Delhi Belly ' it would have been the icing on the cake. Regardless I suspect this was our last trip to Blackpool Illuminations by rail. A couple of times late 1970's we went by car and stayed 2 nights.

 

[Taunton]

Theres video on You Tube which seems to show class 33 on the ferry

and at around 11 mins 30 it really does look like one 33 leaves the boat and climbs the incline of the link span on its own, As others posted I thought they had to maintain balance and worked in parallel

A 75 ton locomotive on one side of the ship it could likely handle. Several hundred tons of train only on one side would be a different matter. The video shows full trains moving in parallel, and only light engines moving on their own.

 

[43074]

Surprised no one has mentioned Cambridge to Doncaster via the GN/GE Joint Line between Spalding and March, worthy of a mention even if not as long as some of the others on here. Birmingham to Norwich was also regular for long distance DMU workings, although went over to Class 31s & Mark 1s in the 70s.

 

[Magdalia]

Surprised no one has mentioned Cambridge to Doncaster via the GN/GE Joint Line between Spalding and March, worthy of a mention even if not as long as some of the others on here. Birmingham to Norwich was also regular for long distance DMU workings, although went over to Class 31s & Mark 1s in the 70s.

See #3:

East Anglia in the 1970s was the land of long distance DMU travel. I have done Cambridge-Birmingham (137 miles) in a Cravens more times than I care to think. Norwich-Birmingham, with a reversal at Ely, was 175 miles. If the train went through to or from Yarmouth that goes up to 195 miles.

More recently, in the summer of 1988 there was a Manchester-Yarmouth booked for a pair of Buxton 3 car BRCW units. The route was via Retford then up the ECML! The total mileage was about 230. After a few weeks a rake of coaches was found so that the train could go loco hauled.

and #63:

Another ER route with very long distance DMU working was the GN+GE Joint Line, which lost its daily loco hauled trains in 1973. Most trains were Cambridge-Doncaster, a distance of about 127 miles. But for a while the first up train started from York to give a total distance of 159 miles. Later the afternoon up train started from Sheffield, about 142 miles to Cambridge.

Another that I'd forgotten about was a Leicester to Harwich at just over 150 miles.

 

[Graham H]

A 75 ton locomotive on one side of the ship it could likely handle. Several hundred tons of train only on one side would be a different matter. The video shows full trains moving in parallel, and only light engines moving on their own.

Agreed based on the video but I was really responding to D6130 from Thursday concerning weight limits on the linkspan and the need for match trucks. That doesnt seem to be the issue but I guess a 6 car Hastings unit loading on one side would induce a bit of a list without a matching set of wagons being loaded simultaneously

 

[Springs Branch]

I have just one personal memory. I can't recall the year but it would have been 1972 - 1977 very latest but most likely earlier so around age 10.

This was a Cotswold Line Merrymaker to Blackpool South for the illuminations. I wonder if South was stated on the flyer or just Blackpool so arrival / departure was expected to be at North. Rather than the expected loco, normally a 47, and stock it was a collection of DMU's. I don't know if it started back at Oxford or only perhaps Moreton-in-Marsh. Bromsgrove was a pick-up. The coaches were not labelled which by Bromsgrove was a problem. On the return the labels had been stuck up.
The combined set made it up and back, 350+ miles excluding ecs, but not a pleasant experience compared to the normal MK1 or occasionally early MK2 stock. I can't recall if any catering provision as normal on a Merrymaker but we had coffee's etc on the seafront before going to the train. Would South then have had left luggage lockers? On Merrymakers we often left a bag of food & flasks but for Blackpool may not have done. When did left luggage lockers get removed due to the activities of the IRA ?

In the early 1970s there was a timetabled Summer SO return train between Birmingham New St and Blackpool North which was booked for a DMU.

During the height of summer (June to early September) this train returned from Blackpool at a very conventional 14:30.

But unlike most Summer SO extras (which ran out of steam late August or early September), this train continued to run through the Blackpool Illuminations season. From mid-September to the end of October, departure of the return train from Blackpool was much later, at 23:00.

While Brum had plenty of DMUs going to the seaside on Saturdays, and 121 miles each way to Blackpool was not the longest, this late-night return trip always sounded to me like one of the most miserable - in a weary, "had-enough-and-just-want-to-get-home" kind of way.

It was booked for a low-density DMU unit as opposed to one of Tyseley's non-gangwayed suburban fleet (but not to say a high-density set wouldn't appear if necessary). Even so, I can't imagine a much worse end to a day out than sitting for 3¾ hours in the early hours of the morning in a 1st Gen DMU, alternating between the vibration & rattle at full throttle down the WCML, and waiting in the dark at some random location to get past a Saturday night possession for WCML electrification work. Especially if Blackpool's October weather had been unkind and you were already cold and wet, as well as tired and half drunk.

To top off the whole experience, you would be deposited in the delightful environment of Birmingham New Street at 02:45 on a Sunday morning, with the prospect of a Night Bus for the last leg home.

 

[philthetube]

Can't provide much info on this but did a Mystery tour from Colne, prob late 70's but could be early 80's from Colne to Barry Island and return, quite a long day trip.

 

[londontransit]

I noticed some have mentioned the Birmingham to Yarmouth DMUs which were a hell of a long run!

Maybe not relevant but I remember in the early 1970s a Liverpool Street to Norwich express being replaced by a three car DMU with a GUV attached at the rear - and the consist was hauled by a Class 47!! Totally bizarre!

PS It wasn't the GUV that was any problem, occasionally DMUs had some other stock behind them in those days (such as a parcels van) but then for the whole thing to be hauled by a 47 as an express service, well that was something else!

PS (again!) Edited to add...

It might have more likely been 1967, 68 or 69 I can't remember as I was a schoolkid and with my mum. The one main defining aspect of this is I simply had to sit right in the front of the DMU, watching the Class 47 through the saloon windows doing this very important job! It was almost like taking a ghost train on the entire GEML to Norwich - there was no driver (or staff) in the DMU cab which definitely made it more exciting!

 

[jfollows]

In the early 1970s there was a timetabled Summer SO return train between Birmingham New St and Blackpool North which was booked for a DMU.

During the height of summer (June to early September) this train returned from Blackpool at a very conventional 14:30.

But unlike most Summer SO extras (which ran out of steam late August or early September), this train continued to run through the Blackpool Illuminations season. From mid-September to the end of October, departure of the return train from Blackpool was much later, at 23:00.

While Brum had plenty of DMUs going to the seaside on Saturdays, and 121 miles each way to Blackpool was not the longest, this late-night return trip always sounded to me like one of the most miserable - in a weary, "had-enough-and-just-want-to-get-home" kind of way.

It was booked for a low-density DMU unit as opposed to one of Tyseley's non-gangwayed suburban fleet (but not to say a high-density set wouldn't appear if necessary). Even so, I can't imagine a much worse end to a day out than sitting for 3¾ hours in the early hours of the morning in a 1st Gen DMU, alternating between the vibration & rattle at full throttle down the WCML, and waiting in the dark at some random location to get past a Saturday night possession for WCML electrification work. Especially if Blackpool's October weather had been unkind and you were already cold and wet, as well as tired and half drunk.

To top off the whole experience, you would be deposited in the delightful environment of Birmingham New Street at 02:45 on a Sunday morning, with the prospect of a Night Bus for the last leg home.

Oh yes, 1G20, see attached.
"Not advertised"
First occurrence, tenth column "13 September to 4 October" and via Rugeley after Stafford
Second occurrence, twelfth column "11 and 18 October only" direct from Stafford via Penkridge
from Section A WTT 4 MAY 1970 to 2 MAY 1971 (or until further notice)

EDIT The same year, 1G20 also 14:30 D2 Blackpool to Birmingham SO 13 June to 5 September, called at Crewe 16:14 to 16:17, then FL to Stafford (showing how under capacity the line was then compared to now, the following service was 1A58 14:02 Barrow to Euston which left Crewe at 16:56 after an engine change which was 9 minutes after 1G20 had rattled through Stafford). This incarnation of 1G20 was advertised, however.

I also see that by 1974 the train had become 1K05 23:00 DMU D2 Blackpool to Crewe "8 September to 27 October", arriving 00:45 with the only onward connection being 1A02 00:40 Liverpool-Euston (01:48 from Crewe) which went "via Birmingham Area" but not calling at Birmingham New Street but instead being routed via Bescot and Aston.