Central line stations in Essex

[jd]

According to Wikipedia, the Central line stations in Essex are part of zones 4/5/6 rather than being in special fare zones like the Met stations in Bucks/Herts because Essex County Council have a subsidy arrangement with TfL.

Can anybody tell me if this also means OAP/disabled residents of Epping Forest district get Freedom Passes? Or any form of free travel on the Central line within Epping Forest only?

 

[Fred26]

While we're on that, does anyone know which zones North Weald, Blake Hall and Ongar were in? According to Wikipedia Ongar was the furthest Underground station from central London.
For me, that branch from Epping is the most interesting part of the Tube. I've never been up that far, but I find it fascinating that Ongar used to have a Tube station. I think it'd be great if one day the money could be found to reopen the line as a full service and even extend it to Chelmsford. Brilliant.

 

[Gavelex]

Us lot at the Epping Ongar railway wouldn't be happy if LUL wanted to re-open the line! It's never going to happen anyway...

IIRC stations past Loughton were in special zones as that was before Essex CC gave funding...

 

[Fred26]

Us lot at the Epping Ongar railway wouldn't be happy if LUL wanted to re-open the line! It's never going to happen anyway...

That's the spirit!

 

[NLC1072]

That's the spirit!

now if this had a "like" button like facebook, I'd be hammering away at it!

 

[MikeWh]

I don't know about the freedom passes, but I do know that this branch is like several to the south of London which were similarly bought inside zone 6 - Caterham, Tattenham Corner and Epsom Downs. The big anomaly occurs because Epsom is not within zone 6 even though it's a similar distance from London as Epsom Downs. I believe that the main sticking point is the effect on fares to stations further out, which explains why the north west tube lines have extra zones.

 

[jopsuk]

is there a geographic map showing zone boundaries anywhere? Pretty sure it would show them as being nowhere near concentric circles around Charing Cross, that's for sure.

 

[Z12XE]

That's the spirit!

Reminds me when Anglia News or Look East (whatever one it was) was interviewing someone from one of the Norfolk preserved railways about this Norfolk Orbital Railway idea, and without saying it he pretty much said "nice idea, but not on my train set"


Anyway.....

 

[LE Greys]

is there a geographic map showing zone boundaries anywhere? Pretty sure it would show them as being nowhere near concentric circles around Charing Cross, that's for sure.

Try this
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:London_Underground_full_map.png

 

[Mojo]

Don't forget that stations Barkingside to Roding Valley inclusive were moved from zone 5 to zone 4 a few years ago, roughly at the same time the Hainault to Woodford service was extended from 20.00 until Midnight, the former in an attempt to increase patronage.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/3795.html

 

[Gavelex]

now if this had a "like" button like facebook, I'd be hammering away at it!

Well, for LUL to re-open the Ongar line they would need to buy it back. Considering alot of time and money has and still is being spent on it by the people who do own it, I can't see them selling up!

Check out http://eorailway.co.uk, it might help people understand the real situation before people start blabbering on about re-opening it as Underground again.

Come on, we live in the real world here. Railways are not run for your own personal pleasure and enjoyment!

And on that note, Aldwych and Charing Cross Jubilee will not be re-opening either!

 

[Z12XE]

Well, for LUL to re-open the Ongar line they would need to buy it back. Considering alot of time and money has and still is being spent on it by the people who do own it, I can't see them selling up!

that's what compulsory purchase orders are for

 

[Mojo]

It's not even on the radar anyway as far as I'm aware. Even projects like the Northern line extension and Croxley link have project teams.

 

[MikeWh]

And on that note, Aldwych and Charing Cross Jubilee will not be re-opening either!

Although TfL do still own those branches don't they? As far as I know they still use Charing Cross when engineering works mean trains only run to/from Green Park. I remember a couple of summers ago Kent were at a cricket final at Lord's and just such arrangements were in place. Now if they had only maintained the platforms at Charing Cross they could still have provided a decent service to all the Kent fans arriving there. Hey ho.

 

[Mojo]

Although TfL do still own those branches don't they? As far as I know they still use Charing Cross when engineering works mean trains only run to/from Green Park. I remember a couple of summers ago Kent were at a cricket final at Lord's and just such arrangements were in place. Now if they had only maintained the platforms at Charing Cross they could still have provided a decent service to all the Kent fans arriving there. Hey ho.

If you're interested about use of Charing Cross for empty trains it's still often used during problems on the line, indeed it was being used yesterday for empty trains when the TBTC/ATO was going up the creek on the Jubilee line, and is also being used as a test site for replacement tunnel linings for the 1970s Jubilee line tunnels south of Baker St.

 

[Fred26]

Well, for LUL to re-open the Ongar line they would need to buy it back. Considering alot of time and money has and still is being spent on it by the people who do own it, I can't see them selling up!

Check out http://eorailway.co.uk, it might help people understand the real situation before people start blabbering on about re-opening it as Underground again.

Come on, we live in the real world here. Railways are not run for your own personal pleasure and enjoyment!

That's quite patronising. What's so 'un-real world' about TfL taking the line back?
I found this quote on the website; "All good things must come to an end and our railway is no exception as we reach the 9.4 Kilometre post the end of our running line. With just 800Mts between us Epping station, an extension project is inevitable."

EOR

A service could be run through from Central London. I'm not saying it will happen, just that it could. It's not that infeasible.

 

[Gavelex]

Apart from the fact past Epping there are no power rails and the platforms are at mainline height?
Yeah...

 

[paul332]

1 Freedom Passes can be used in any zone, including 7-9 on the Met and even Watford Junction via Overground! Some little compensation for passing 60...

2 There's the outsidest of chances than the Charing Cross platforms could reopen if DLR's aspirations for a Bank-Victoria extension re-using the original Fleet Line tunnels from just west of Aldwych to east of Green Park, and wayleaves from Cannon Street to Aldwych, ever materialise. As stations are the most expensive part, use of the Jubilee Charing Cross infrastructure could tip the balance towards a viable business case.

3 Epping-Ongar was a wonderful bit of LT fantasia, second only to the Met's Brill line in absurdity as part of an urban rapid transit system. Epping-Ongar was only electrified in 1957, and I believe extension to Chelmsford was contemplated, but (a) the intervening area is too rural and couldn't be developed, and (b) the all-stations stopping service would be too slow to be of any practical value. Far better to run as a heritage railway.

 

[Mojo]

1 Freedom Passes can be used in any zone, including 7-9 on the Met and even Watford Junction via Overground! Some little compensation for passing 60...

However this is only those issued by London Councils; a pass from (say) Manchester would not be valid on the Tube.

I'm pretty sure it is only London Councils passes which are valid on the Tube, but would have to check. Don't try and cover up the logo and show it to the gateline staff as it's bloody obvious what you're doing and you'll end up getting in trouble.

 

[Fred26]

Check out http://eorailway.co.uk, it might help people understand the real situation before people start blabbering on about re-opening it as Underground again.

Come on, we live in the real world here. Railways are not run for your own personal pleasure and enjoyment!

No, I'd like to run railways for the purpose they were built - transporting freight and passengers, not as some plaything for enthusiasts. I believe, where possible, heritage lines should be reconnected to the network.

 

[MCR247]

Why? Sometimes, there just isn't a point.

 

[Fred26]

I think there would be in this instance. I suppose I should have put the caveat on that saying, 'if it's necessary.'

 

[W-on-Sea]

While we're on that, does anyone know which zones North Weald, Blake Hall and Ongar were in? According to Wikipedia Ongar was the furthest Underground station from central London.

They weren't in the zones at all. I can't give you any dates, but the extension of the zonal system out to Epping happened after the Ongar line closed. IIRC Loughton used to be the final station in the zones. Given that Loughton and Buckhurst Hill are in Essex/Epping Forest district (just as are Debden, Theydon Bois and Epping), I'm not quite sure what the rationale behind this was. (Not least as several TfL/LT bus routes continue beyond Loughton as far out as Debden, although none have served Theydon Bois since 1981 or Epping since 1986 ).


All the stations on the Hainault loop have been in the zones since they were introduced, even though Roding Valley and Chigwell are also in Essex/Epping Forest (and Grange Hill is right on the boundary with Greater London/Redbridge). Although as Mojo said they were recently moved from Zone 5 to 4 to try and increase patronage.

Similarly on the Met, I think that Northwood used to be the final station in the zones, although this was later extended to Moor Park, and after that the lettered zones (now 7-9) were introduced to cover the stations beyond them.

 

[Fred26]

Very interesting, thanks.

 

[Gavelex]

http://media.schadenfreude.net/2009/06/irony6.jpg

No, I'd like to run railways for the purpose they were built - transporting freight and passengers, not as some plaything for enthusiasts. I believe, where possible, heritage lines should be reconnected to the network.

I was more referring to the extension that was suggested. It's pretty obvious what the point of a heritage line is, although I think you will find that the EOR is being managed by the owners as more of a money making venture than "as some plaything for enthusiasts".

 

[317 forever]

Don't forget that stations Barkingside to Roding Valley inclusive were moved from zone 5 to zone 4 a few years ago, roughly at the same time the Hainault to Woodford service was extended from 20.00 until Midnight, the former in an attempt to increase patronage.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/3795.html

Indeed, these stations were moved to zone 4 at the start of 2007. I remember this because I visited the area immediately before Christmas 2006 so by just over a week had to buy a 6-zone rather than just 4-zone Travelcard.:roll:

 

[Gavelex]

Just thought I'd add - London Underground will not let EOR trains run into there platforms at Epping, a new platform will have to be built - probably a little up the line due to space constraints at Epping. So through trains from London are even less likely...

 

[Z12XE]

although I think you will find that the EOR is being managed by the owners as more of a money making venture than "as some plaything for enthusiasts".

As a Tourist Attraction or as a "public service" ?

 

[Gavelex]

Tourist Attraction for now, but apparently once we have an arrangement at Epping a commuter service will be looked at...

 

[Z12XE]

but apparently once we have an arrangement at Epping a commuter service will be looked at...

I hope someone high up has very deep pockets