Temporary closure of Stanlow and Thornton

[142 007]

Northern are not stopping due to urgent repairs to a bridge.
I maybe wrong, but suspect this maybe the case for a while.

Temporary station closure - Stanlow and Thornton | Northern

Due to urgent repairs to a station bridge, trains cannot currently call at Stanlow and Thornton. For customers starting or ending their journey at this station, road replacement transport will be provided. …

www.northernrailway.co.uk

 

[splashoutradio]

Looking at journey check, there is a minibus calling at all stations between Helsby and Ellesmere Port, and returning from Ellesmere Port to Stanlow to Thornton, then dropping off at all stops to Warrington on request, complimenting the scheduled train service.

The sceptic in me thinks this may become a replacement for the train, as it is often cancelled.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at journey check, there is a minibus calling at all stations between Helsby and Ellesmere Port, and returning from Ellesmere Port to Stanlow to Thornton, then dropping off at all stops to Warrington on request, complimenting the scheduled train service.

The sceptic in me thinks this may become a replacement for the train, as it is often cancelled.

Interesting - is said minibus allowed to use Oil Sites Road?

If it runs via the villages instead it's probably more useful than the train.

I suspect this will be permanent closure in due course.

 

[Kite159]

I suspect the station will be mothballed in a similar style to IBM & Redcar British Steel rather than to spend money on replacing/repairing the access footbridge for the tiny number of genuine passengers who use the station (shame because if it had a decent service it might get some commuters using it from the nearby oil refinery).

 

[pdeaves]

might get some commuters using it from the nearby oil refinery

Is that still operational? (genuine question)

 

[jamesst]

Is that still operational? (genuine question)

Very much so

 

[pdeaves]

Very much so

Fair enough, thanks.

 

[furnessvale]

Is that still operational? (genuine question)

Only the rail sidings have closed. Product moves by pipeline, road and ship canal.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess the issue is that the train times probably don't align with the refinery's shift times. If Merseyrail were to be extended to Helsby with say 2tph or even 1tph, people may well decide to use it - but also bear in mind how huge the refinery site is, and so they might not want to walk to the specific bit they work in, and thus drive. And I guess some shift changes will be outside operating hours even then.

 

[Crossover]

The webpage linked above has gone - has the station reopened?

 

[nedchester]

Interesting - is said minibus allowed to use Oil Sites Road?

If it runs via the villages instead it's probably more useful than the train.

I suspect this will be permanent closure in due course.

The station can be access from the Ince end of Oil sites road but to access Ellesmere Port the mini-bus will need to go back towards Ince along the A5117 and then into Ellesmere Port as there are barriers along oil-sites road to prevent through traffic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The station can be access from the Ince end of Oil sites road but to access Ellesmere Port the mini-bus will need to go back towards Ince along the A5117 and then into Ellesmere Port as there are barriers along oil-sites road to prevent through traffic.

Ah, has that changed? Because there was a time when the whole road was closed and thus the station was accessible to employees only, and if you got off there security would quickly show up and escort you off site. I think the "Merseytart" documents this on his site.

 

[nedchester]

Ah, has that changed? Because there was a time when the whole road was closed and thus the station was accessible to employees only, and if you got off there security would quickly show up and escort you off site. I think the "Merseytart" documents this on his site.

Oil sites road is a 'Private' road and always has been. There are barriers half way down the road. If you got off there security did occasionally hassle you but they had no jurisdiction on the station itself.

Photographers have been given grief there but usually because they have parked on the private road outside. When I (used to?) go there I cycled (I live locally) to avoid the bother.

I might have a pedal down there over the weekend.

A photo there in 2016 (and my bike) here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/nedch...photolist-FNxUow-GCh2VX-GCh2N2-qP1SNA-2j9mWxt

 

[pdeaves]

The webpage linked above has gone - has the station reopened?

Just for the fun of it I looked up Stanlow to Helsby on the nationalrail journey planner. This gives cancelled trains today with a bus replacement. plus cancelled trains tomorrow with an almost-same-time 'something' (presumably road replacement but not labelled as such) that's already shown as 8 minutes late! Here's a screenshot showing it.

 

[Djgr]

I guess the issue is that the train times probably don't align with the refinery's shift times. If Merseyrail were to be extended to Helsby with say 2tph or even 1tph, people may well decide to use it - but also bear in mind how huge the refinery site is, and so they might not want to walk to the specific bit they work in, and thus drive. And I guess some shift changes will be outside operating hours even then.

It's just Helsby (population 4,972) appears such an unpromising destination in its own right. Any serious usage of the line requires trains to travel further afield.

There would certainly be a market for those who work in Manchester but live on the Wirral, if Ellesmere Port were developed as a parkway station with fast Manchester commuter services, given how close it is to the M53 and how painful the M53/M56 commute is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's just Helsby (population 4,972) appears such an unpromising destination in its own right. Any serious usage of the line requires trains to travel further afield.

There would certainly be a market for those who work in Manchester but live on the Wirral, if Ellesmere Port were developed as a parkway with fast Manchester commuter services, given how close it is to the M53 and how painful the M53/M56 commute is.

It's an odd one. Extending Merseyrail past Helsby (e.g. to Warrington BQ) would be negative, as it would import WCML delays onto Merseyrail - it's for similar reasons that I don't think the line from Ormskirk should extend to Preston, but rather Burscough, to keep it self-contained, as Merseyrail's simple, self-contained nature is where most of its strength lies. But similarly putting Northern services onto Merseyrail (i.e. running to Hooton) would be negative, as that would import the delays a different way. Yet if you argued that Ellesmere Port shouldn't have been electrified but instead served by an hourly Manchester, it'd then not have had its direct Liverpool service. And said Manchester would clog up paths for a tiny level of usage as there's not much there! Portion working it off the Vic-Chester wouldn't work either as the layout at Helsby isn't right for that.

I think Merseyrail to Helsby on batteries is the best it is ever likely to get, to be honest. But even that is questionable, as anyone from the rest of the Wirral Line can just change at Chester for a far wider range of services.

In essence it exists for the oil terminal (who don't really use it) and the small villages of Ince and Elton (who don't really use it). It's kind-of hard to justify it existing at all.

 

[richard1976]

Who owns the footbridge, is it network rail or the oil refinery.

 

[pdeaves]

Who owns the footbridge, is it network rail or the oil refinery.

The oil company (or whoever owns the oil site, which isn't necessarily the same).

 

[The exile]

The oil company (or whoever owns the oil site, which isn't necessarily the same

But probably better for the future of the station than if it were NR

 

[frodshamfella]

Ah, has that changed? Because there was a time when the whole road was closed and thus the station was accessible to employees only, and if you got off there security would quickly show up and escort you off site. I think the "Merseytart" documents this on his site.

Yes read that, quite funny.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Feb 2022 ==

It's an odd one. Extending Merseyrail past Helsby (e.g. to Warrington BQ) would be negative, as it would import WCML delays onto Merseyrail - it's for similar reasons that I don't think the line from Ormskirk should extend to Preston, but rather Burscough, to keep it self-contained, as Merseyrail's simple, self-contained nature is where most of its strength lies. But similarly putting Northern services onto Merseyrail (i.e. running to Hooton) would be negative, as that would import the delays a different way. Yet if you argued that Ellesmere Port shouldn't have been electrified but instead served by an hourly Manchester, it'd then not have had its direct Liverpool service. And said Manchester would clog up paths for a tiny level of usage as there's not much there! Portion working it off the Vic-Chester wouldn't work either as the layout at Helsby isn't right for that.

I think Merseyrail to Helsby on batteries is the best it is ever likely to get, to be honest. But even that is questionable, as anyone from the rest of the Wirral Line can just change at Chester for a far wider range of services.

In essence it exists for the oil terminal (who don't really use it) and the small villages of Ince and Elton (who don't really use it). It's kind-of hard to justify it existing at all.

I agree, the best is for Merseyrail to terminate at Helsby, at least onward connections can be made there. Ince and Elton although not large has seen quite a bit of house building of late, so a decent service for folk there would be useful.

 

[Kite159]

In essence it exists for the oil terminal (who don't really use it) and the small villages of Ince and Elton (who don't really use it). It's kind-of hard to justify it existing at all.

Well if you lived in the villages or worked at the terminal, would you use the train when it only runs a couple times a day at awkward times (the first before 7am with a return at 6/7pm)?

For most of the residents in those villages the station might as well not exist with those timings, especially as those trains are not the most reliable

 

[Djgr]

It's an odd one. Extending Merseyrail past Helsby (e.g. to Warrington BQ) would be negative, as it would import WCML delays onto Merseyrail - it's for similar reasons that I don't think the line from Ormskirk should extend to Preston, but rather Burscough, to keep it self-contained, as Merseyrail's simple, self-contained nature is where most of its strength lies. But similarly putting Northern services onto Merseyrail (i.e. running to Hooton) would be negative, as that would import the delays a different way. Yet if you argued that Ellesmere Port shouldn't have been electrified but instead served by an hourly Manchester, it'd then not have had its direct Liverpool service. And said Manchester would clog up paths for a tiny level of usage as there's not much there! Portion working it off the Vic-Chester wouldn't work either as the layout at Helsby isn't right for that.

I think Merseyrail to Helsby on batteries is the best it is ever likely to get, to be honest. But even that is questionable, as anyone from the rest of the Wirral Line can just change at Chester for a far wider range of services.

In essence it exists for the oil terminal (who don't really use it) and the small villages of Ince and Elton (who don't really use it). It's kind-of hard to justify it existing at all.

I wouldn't agree with Merseyrail being extended to Helsby but would like to see Northern trial peak hour services from Ellesmere Port direct to Manchester.

As I say Ellesmere Port Station is very well situated to pick up commuters to Manchester from the M53 motorway and appears able to provide substantial parking. Chester and Liverpool can't fulfil this role because of the time involved in getting through the traffic to the station.

Helsby does currently fulfil a similar parkway role for Manchester commuters from the M56 but Railtrack (I think) flogged off almost all its car parking for "executive dwellings".

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't agree with Merseyrail being extended to Helsby but would like to see Northern trial peak hour services from Ellesmere Port direct to Manchester.

These have existed in the past and were poorly used.

 

[D821]

I believe it was between Helsby and Ellesmere Port that Merseyrail used for the 777 battery trials. I had thought this was because they wanted to extend their network but I'm guessing it was because it just fitted the profile for their testing.

 

[markymark2000]

These have existed in the past and were poorly used.

The trains used to be empty and fill up at Helsby as everyone would get the TFW service from Chester and knowing it would be overcrowded, people jumped off at Helsby, walked over the bridge and then got the Northern train which followed behind the TFW one. Everyone got to work much more comfortably.

It was quite funny.

 

[childwallblues]

There has been talk for many years of Merseyrail extending its Liverpool to Ellesmere Port service to Helsby. There is an untapped market at Ince & Elton for leisure traffic into Liverpool. It would also save Northern sending ecs from Liverpool and Manchester.

 

[KT550]

Interesting - is said minibus allowed to use Oil Sites Road?

If it runs via the villages instead it's probably more useful than the train.

I suspect this will be permanent closure in due course.

There is already a rail replacement bus stop pick up point at the bottom of the foot bridge on the north side of the station.

Presumably if road access was restricted at any time, arrangements would be made for the bus to travel to the station.

 

[Djgr]

There has been talk for many years of Merseyrail extending its Liverpool to Ellesmere Port service to Helsby. There is an untapped market at Ince & Elton for leisure traffic into Liverpool. It would also save Northern sending ecs from Liverpool and Manchester.

Ince population 203

Elton population 3,586

 

[jamesst]

Ince population 203

Elton population 3,586

Capenhurst 380...

 

[Pacef8]

Capenhurst will see its population triple with the two new housing estates. Ince elton have their capacity capped i think due to safety.