Unusual Steam loco combinations under BR and its predecessors

[alexl92]

Inspired by the unusual diesel combinations thread (thanks to the OP who started that one!), I just wondered if any particularly odd combos of steam locomotives were observed during the BR era (or before)? Obviously there were some regulars - S&DJR regularly threw up SR + LMS combos such as a West Country and a 4F, and there were the three R1s that were used for banking together... but were there many really unusual combinations - did an LNER J72 ever pilot a Jubilee, or maybe an 8F rescue a GWR castle for example?

Pictures always welcome!

 

[Speed43125]

I remember reading of a modified hall being used on the Lickey in conjunction with what would become 37s. Perhaps someone has some more details, but that presumably could have banked some slightly unusual different motive power.

 

[Harvester]

The fish trains from Aberdeen had a variety of double-headers in the 1960s. Class A4/Black Five combinations often occurred.

 

[Strathclyder]

The fish trains from Aberdeen had a variety of double-headers in the 1960s. Class A4/Black Five combinations often occurred.

Something like this? This was the best I could come up with from a quick Flickr search:

Stanier Black 5 and A4 60024 Kingfisher, Aberdeen Ferryhill shed 1965. Note token catcher on Black 5 cabside for single line working.

Scanned from Kodak Brownie 127 negative

www.flickr.com

(linked image copyright of Flickr's rac819)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2022 ==

Inspired by the unusual diesel combinations thread (thanks to the OP who started that one!), I just wondered if any particularly odd combos of steam locomotives were observed during the BR era (or before)? Obviously there were some regulars - S&DJR regularly threw up SR + LMS combos such as a West Country and a 4F, and there were the three R1s that were used for banking together... but were there many really unusual combinations - did an LNER J72 ever pilot a Jubilee, or maybe an 8F rescue a GWR castle for example?

Pictures always welcome!

Not a problem, was low-key hoping someone would create a steam-themed equivalent; saying that as a lad who prefers diesels overall lol

 

[robert thomas]

I photographed Jubilee 45562 piloting 9F 92127 at Hellifield on a Heysham-Leeds oil train on 22nd March 1967

 

[Rescars]

IIRC there were occasions when some odd and exotic combinations appeared on the Lickey Bank, especially when the LNER U1 Garrett was trialled (unsucessfully) as a replacement for Big Bertha.

 

[Strathclyder]

IIRC there were occasions when some odd and exotic combinations appeared on the Lickey Bank, especially when the LNER U1 Garrett was trialled (unsucessfully) as a replacement for Big Bertha.

Just found this remarkable image of the LNER U1 Garratt keeping company with Big Bertha at the Bromsgrove Coaling Stage in April 1949 (from the Kevin Lane Flickr collection, originally taken by the late Doug Clayton). Given the date, this was the first of the two occasions the Garratt was trialed on the Lickey (it was trialed there again in 1955 after the Woodhead electrification was completed IIRC).

Lickey superpower

LNER U1 class Garratt 69999 and resident 0.10.0 58100 at the Bromsgrove coaling stage on 30 April 1949. 69999 was being tried out as a banker on the Lickey incline, the first of two occasions, both unsuccessful. Imagine these two in preservation! Scanned from a negative taken by the late Doug...

www.flickr.com

 

[Rescars]

What a pair!

 

[Bevan Price]

One of the most unlikely combinations occurred on BR in the preservation era, on a railtour:

LNWR 790 2-4-0 "Hardwick" piloting BR 9F 2-10-0 92220 "Evening Star"

Carnforth to Hellifield & Leeds on 19 June 1976.

 

[Pigeon]

Given the date, this was the first of the two occasions the Garratt was trialed on the Lickey (it was trialed again in 1955 IIRC).

It was probably that second occasion when it managed to go up there accompanied by one of the LMS Garratts and possibly something else as well. I think someone was having fun that day.

 

[Strathclyder]

It was probably that second occasion when it managed to go up there accompanied by one of the LMS Garratts and possibly something else as well. I think someone was having fun that day.

Quoting a comment on the Flickr image linked above by one Steve45664, which may not be what you have in mind here given the disparities with the dates, but I think it's worth mentioning nonetheless:

In his book "On Railways at Home and Abroad", published in 1951, Patrick Ransome-Wallis describes seeing a LMS Garratt 2-6-6-2T, No.47972, hauling 42 loaded wagons arriving at Bromsgrove, and No. 69999 moving onto the rear to bank the train up the Lickey Incline. He rushed off to get to the lineside on the bank, and the train appeared , moving very slowly. It got slower and slower and came to a halt near his viewpoint. Cue lots of smoke but no progress, and after 38 minutes, the MR 0-10-0 banker, no 58100, came up to the rear and got the train moving. I suspect that may have been a truly unique experience, and very noisy!

I can only imagine what that must've looked (and sounded!) like.

 

[Taunton]

It didn't actually get carried through, but a famous humorous misunderstanding moment at Taunton, which actually made it into George Behrend's book "Gone With Regret" (courtesy of John Alves who relayed the story), was a King-hauled Up express, overweight, which had struggled over Whiteball and asked for assistance onwards to Westbury. A Hall light engine was following, headed for Swindon, so the message was sent down the line "send light engine forward promptly". The King driver was told to wait for the assisting loco, and in typical GWR fashion that the train engine had to be on the front, moved forward so it could be coupled behind. Unfortunately there was ANOTHER light engine coming up, the Taunton 0-4-0T saddle tank 1338, which was waiting in a siding at Norton Fitzwarren, and was signalled out to waddle at its maximum 20-30 mph forward, checking the Hall behind in the process. Platform inspector at Taunton said to King driver "assisting engine coming in for you now". Enter 1338.

 

[Harvester]

One of the most unlikely combinations occurred on BR in the preservation era, on a railtour:

LNWR 790 2-4-0 "Hardwick" piloting BR 9F 2-10-0 92220 "Evening Star"

Carnforth to Hellifield & Leeds on 19 June 1976.

I was on one of the two railtours that ran on 19/6/76 incorporating steam locos B1 61306 Mayflower, Black five 45407, 790 Hardwick, 92220 Evening Star and 4472 Flying Scotsman. Our steam haulage was:

61306+45407 Carnforth- Leeds
790+92220 Leeds-York (via Harrogate)
Diesel York-Leeds
4472 Leeds -Carnforth

The 790+92220 combination on BR was indeed unusual, and unlikely to be repeated, with the locos now effectively barred by Network Rail.

 

[TurboFintan]

I can only imagine what that must've looked (and sounded!) like.

I read up about this a while back and did managed to find some photos of this event taken by the same person:

LMS Garratt 47982 being banked by LNER U1 69999 and MR 0-10-0 58100 in circa 1950. The photos were in the Model Rail May 2017 Issue 234 Britains Best Climbs.

 

[Strathclyder]

I read up about this a while back and did managed to find some photos of this event taken by the same person:

LMS Garratt 47982 being banked by LNER U1 69999 and MR 0-10-0 58100 in circa 1950. The photos were in the Model Rail May 2017 Issue 234 Britains Best Climbs.

Holy mother....

The Holy Grail of steam power on the Lickey if ever such a thing existed.

 

[Pigeon]

Aye, that's the beastie. I'd forgotten that the "something else" was indeed Big Bertha.

 

[Cowley]

Holy mother....

The Holy Grail of steam power on the Lickey if ever such a thing existed.

I wonder how many class 31s pulling in the opposite direction it would take to stop them..?

 

[Strathclyder]

I wonder how many class 31s pulling in the opposite direction it would take to stop them..?

A minimum of 10.

 

[Rescars]

A minimum of 10.

Aye, that's the beastie. I'd forgotten that the "something else" was indeed Big Bertha.

What a line-up! I wonder how many wagons they were moving. Presumably rather more than the photographs reveal☺. Does the colour of the U1's exhaust suggest it was making heavy weather of its task?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2022 ==

What a line-up! I wonder how many wagons they were moving. Presumably rather more than the photographs reveal☺. Does the colour of the U1's exhaust suggest it was making heavy weather of its task?

Oops, sorry. I see that Strathclyder has already answered my question. 42 loaded wagons, eh? I wonder what that equates to in terms of HGVs on the M5?

 

[Strathclyder]

What a line-up! I wonder how many wagons they were moving. Presumably rather more than the photographs reveal☺. Does the colour of the U1's exhaust suggest it was making heavy weather of its task?

Seems so, which may explain why Big Bertha was called in to help give the train a almighty shove up the rest of the bank.

 

[Spartacus]

Does the colour of the U1's exhaust suggest it was making heavy weather of its task?

It probably didn't help it having what was more than likely an unfamiliarly wide firebox.

 

[EveningStar]

It probably didn't help it having what was more than likely an unfamiliarly wide firebox.

Older drivers when I was a spotter at Bromsgrove back in the day were unanimous that the U1 was shy of steam, even when converted to oil burning. Was also a problem with accurately buffering up, which at Bromsgrove, unlike Worsborough, included passenger trains that needed to be away smartly and without passengers being given a good nudge out of their seats ... easy to see which way the choice was going between home grown Midland or an overlong, steam shy interloper.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Inspired by the unusual diesel combinations thread (thanks to the OP who started that one!), I just wondered if any particularly odd combos of steam locomotives were observed during the BR era (or before)? Obviously there were some regulars - S&DJR regularly threw up SR + LMS combos such as a West Country and a 4F, and there were the three R1s that were used for banking together... but were there many really unusual combinations - did an LNER J72 ever pilot a Jubilee, or maybe an 8F rescue a GWR castle for example?

Pictures always welcome!

I've seen a picture of an LMS 7P piloting an LNWR 7F facing N in Preston old platform 5

 

[Strathclyder]

I think this one is up there along with the Lickey-related ones above:

1963 - 'Scottish Belle' at Brighton

Preserved Caledonian Railway single 123 and London and South Western Railway 'Greyhound' T9 120 at Brighton loco shed in September 1963, during the Bluebell Railway Preservation Society 'Scottish Belle' railtour. CR 123 still has some of its 'whitewashed coal' in the tender, in the style of...

www.flickr.com

(Caledonian Railway Single No.123 & London & South Western Railway T9 Greyhound No.120 at Brighton Shed - 15th September 1963. Part of the Robert Gadsdon collection, originally taken by J.B. Snell)

 

[Taunton]

Amazing coincidence.

I followed the photo link above, and then scrolled on through the string of interesting old colour photos there. Came to a 1967 shot of two Stanier 2-6-4T locos on an enthusiasts special.

Now I youthfully recall, on a holiday weekend in the 1960s when we had moved from Somerset to The Wirral, taking the electric train with the family from the West Kirby line into Liverpool. At Bidston, in the sidings along the station, were two Stanier 2-6-4T coupled, never saw anything like that there before or after. As it was a bank holiday, I presumed it was some holiday excursion from the Wrexham line to New Brighton.

Fast forward 55 years to today, and I see that the photo is of an RCTS railtour - at Wrexham. Over to Six Bells Junction with old railtour details, and I find it is indeed Saturday 29 April 1967, when the following Monday was the May Day bank holiday, and these two locos had come off at Bidston.

Here's the detail. Shame I don't still have my 1967 Ian Allan book to underline them both . And it was certainly an Unusual Steam Loco Combination for there, so perfectly suits this thread.

Picture :

1967 - Stanier Tanks, at Wrexham.

LMS Stanier 2-6-4Ts 42616 and 42647 at Wrexham Central station in spring 1967, with the R.C.T.S. 'Wrexham, Mold & Connah's Quay Railway Rail Tour'. 42616 was withdrawn in October 1967, and scrapped in March 1968, and 42647 was withdrawn soon after this phpto was taken, in May 1967, and scrapped...

www.flickr.com

Six Bells Junction :

The Railtour Files

 

[Cowley]

Amazing coincidence.

I followed the photo link above, and then scrolled on through the string of interesting old colour photos there. Came to a 1967 shot of two Stanier 2-6-4T locos on an enthusiasts special.

Now I youthfully recall, on a holiday weekend in the 1960s when we had moved from Somerset to The Wirral, taking the electric train with the family from the West Kirby line into Liverpool. At Bidston, in the sidings along the station, were two Stanier 2-6-4T coupled, never saw anything like that there before or after. As it was a bank holiday, I presumed it was some holiday excursion from the Wrexham line to New Brighton.

Fast forward 55 years to today, and I see that the photo is of an RCTS railtour - at Wrexham. Over to Six Bells Junction with old railtour details, and I find it is indeed Saturday 29 April 1967, when the following Monday was the May Day bank holiday, and these two locos had come off at Bidston.

Here's the detail. Shame I don't still have my 1967 Ian Allan book to underline them both . And it was certainly an Unusual Steam Loco Combination for there, so perfectly suits this thread.

1967 - Stanier Tanks, at Wrexham.

LMS Stanier 2-6-4Ts 42616 and 42647 at Wrexham Central station in spring 1967, with the R.C.T.S. 'Wrexham, Mold & Connah's Quay Railway Rail Tour'. 42616 was withdrawn in October 1967, and scrapped in March 1968, and 42647 was withdrawn soon after this phpto was taken, in May 1967, and scrapped...

www.flickr.com

The Railtour Files

Handsome looking machines I’ve always thought.

 

[Strathclyder]

@Taunton Robert Gadsdon really does have a amazing collection, spent at least 2 hours digging through it.

A few more from his collection (all linked images' original photographers are unknown/uncredited) that are relevent to this thread:

1962 - Watering at Church Fenton..

SR 'Schools' Class V 4-4-0 30925 ''Cheltenham'' at Church Fenton station on May 13th, 1962, with LMS 2P 4-4-0 40646 - taking on water - behind. The locos were on the R.C.T.S. 'East Midlander No. 5' railtour. 40646 was withdrawn a few weeks after this photo was taken, and scrapped in September...

www.flickr.com

1963 - 2MT and WDs at Bury

LMS/BR Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 46412 with WD 2-8-0 90364 at Bury shed in summer 1963, with more WDs on the right.. At that time, both locos were based here.. 46412 was withdrawn in August 1966, and scrapped three months later. 90364 was withdrawn at the end of 1965, and scrapped in May 1966. Seven...

www.flickr.com

1965 - Mixed Double-Headers..

LMS/BR Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T 41206 and GWR 47XX Class 0-6-0PT 4666 at Tipton St Johns station, with the LCGB 'East Devon (No. 1)' railtour, in February 1965. As the name suggests, this tour was repeated a few weeks later.. 41206 was withdrawn in March 1966, and scrapped four months later. Four...

www.flickr.com

Not sure whether or not a 2MT+WD 2-8-0 combo really counts as a rare pairing when compared with a SR Schools+LMS 2P combo, the latter at Church Fenton of all places!

 

[Bevan Price]

Amazing coincidence.

I followed the photo link above, and then scrolled on through the string of interesting old colour photos there. Came to a 1967 shot of two Stanier 2-6-4T locos on an enthusiasts special.

Now I youthfully recall, on a holiday weekend in the 1960s when we had moved from Somerset to The Wirral, taking the electric train with the family from the West Kirby line into Liverpool. At Bidston, in the sidings along the station, were two Stanier 2-6-4T coupled, never saw anything like that there before or after. As it was a bank holiday, I presumed it was some holiday excursion from the Wrexham line to New Brighton.

Fast forward 55 years to today, and I see that the photo is of an RCTS railtour - at Wrexham. Over to Six Bells Junction with old railtour details, and I find it is indeed Saturday 29 April 1967, when the following Monday was the May Day bank holiday, and these two locos had come off at Bidston.

Here's the detail. Shame I don't still have my 1967 Ian Allan book to underline them both . And it was certainly an Unusual Steam Loco Combination for there, so perfectly suits this thread.

Picture :

1967 - Stanier Tanks, at Wrexham.

LMS Stanier 2-6-4Ts 42616 and 42647 at Wrexham Central station in spring 1967, with the R.C.T.S. 'Wrexham, Mold & Connah's Quay Railway Rail Tour'. 42616 was withdrawn in October 1967, and scrapped in March 1968, and 42647 was withdrawn soon after this phpto was taken, in May 1967, and scrapped...

www.flickr.com

Six Bells Junction :

The Railtour Files

I was on that railtour, and the pairing of two 2-6-4 tanks was far from unique.
For two summers in the 1950s, the 18:00 Liverpool Lime Street to Wigan North Western was regularly double-headed, presumably to get one loco to Springs Branch before or after an unbalanced working. Whilst the most common combination was a Black 5 and a 4MT 2-6-4T, almost anything could turn up, including Jubilees, Crabs, Stanier 2-6-0s and pairs of 2-6-4 tanks.

The attached photo lists my observations of locos on that train for Mondays in 1957 & 1958.
(Tuesdays to Fridays are available if anyone is interested)

 

[Harvester]

@Taunton Robert Gadsdon really does have a amazing collection, spent at least 2 hours digging through it.

A few more from his collection (all linked images' original photographers are unknown/uncredited) that are relevent to this thread:

1962 - Watering at Church Fenton..

SR 'Schools' Class V 4-4-0 30925 ''Cheltenham'' at Church Fenton station on May 13th, 1962, with LMS 2P 4-4-0 40646 - taking on water - behind. The locos were on the R.C.T.S. 'East Midlander No. 5' railtour. 40646 was withdrawn a few weeks after this photo was taken, and scrapped in September...

www.flickr.com

1963 - 2MT and WDs at Bury

LMS/BR Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0 46412 with WD 2-8-0 90364 at Bury shed in summer 1963, with more WDs on the right.. At that time, both locos were based here.. 46412 was withdrawn in August 1966, and scrapped three months later. 90364 was withdrawn at the end of 1965, and scrapped in May 1966. Seven...

www.flickr.com

1965 - Mixed Double-Headers..

LMS/BR Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T 41206 and GWR 47XX Class 0-6-0PT 4666 at Tipton St Johns station, with the LCGB 'East Devon (No. 1)' railtour, in February 1965. As the name suggests, this tour was repeated a few weeks later.. 41206 was withdrawn in March 1966, and scrapped four months later. Four...

www.flickr.com

Not sure whether or not a 2MT+WD 2-8-0 combo really counts as a rare pairing when compared with a SR Schools+LMS 2P combo, the latter at Church Fenton of all places!

There is quite an interesting report of the 13/5/62 ‘RCTS East Midlander Railtour’ in the Railway Observer. On the return run the two 4-4-0s (Schools 30925 and 2P 40646) ran from Darlington-York start to stop, in under 40 minutes with a top speed of 83mph.

The report also states that 40646 was withdrawn W/E Saturday 12/5/62 due to a life expired boiler, but was given special approval to work the train. 40646 thus worked a 300 mile railtour, with speeds in excess of 80mph while out of ticket!!

 

[Strathclyder]

There is quite an interesting report of the 13/5/62 ‘RCTS East Midlander Railtour’ in the Railway Observer. On the return run the two 4-4-0s (Schools 30925 and 2P 40646) ran from Darlington-York start to stop, in under 40 minutes with a top speed of 83mph.

The report also states that 40646 was withdrawn W/E Saturday 12/5/62 due to a life expired boiler, but was given special approval to work the train. 40646 thus worked a 300 mile railtour, with speeds in excess of 80mph while out of ticket!!

Very interesting indeed, especially the part about 40646 running the railtour on a expired boiler ticket. Certainly not something that would happen now!