Can somebody please help me with validity? Grimsby-Crawley Super Off-Peak

[DeeGee]

Hello there, I've had so much useful help over the years, I'm wondering if someone can please help with a journey I'm making next weekend.

I'm flying out of Gatwick with my son, who is 12. We have a F&F railcard for this journey and are looking for flexibility.

I'm looking at a Super-Off Peak GMB-CRW, £77.20 for me and £22.20 for the boy. The restriction code for this ticket is 1L, which means I can't use it to leave London between 14:59 and 18:59 Mon-Fri.

Saturday 12th Feb, we're planning on leaving Grimsby Town at 11.21 to get the Northern service to Retford, and then LNER to Kings Cross. We're going to BoJ at Kings Cross to take PCR tests, and then go on to Crawley where we're staying overnight. I'm presuming I can use the Maltese Cross for this from KGX to Victoria?

The following day (Sunday) at about 1600 or thereabouts we're going to go back up the line to Gatwick Airport, where we're leaving the service. I was planning on maybe using the beginning of the return portion to do this (although I might just get a bus, which passes my hotel regularly). I believe there are gates at both Crawley and Gatwick, so will they mark the ticket as used?

On Thursday 17th Feb we're flying back into the country, but into Heathrow. We arrive at about 1600, taking HEX to Paddington (I've bought that ticket in advance already) and I'm anticipating getting the 1906 LNER service to Lincoln and then onwards from there to Grimsby Town. I have a couple of later options if need be. I was planning on using the rest of the GMB-CRW return portion for this journey.

Now, I'm pretty confident about the outward, and the back end of the return, what I'm wondering is whether I can make a 5 day BoJ on the return portion in the way I've planned, breaking at GTW and resuming at KGX several days later.
I'm also wondering if I can use the Maltese Cross to get from Paddington to KGX, and also I'm wondering if, because I'm starting the return journey outside London a few days prior to the KGX-GMB portion, whether I'm still restricted to trains between certain times on the Thursday. There's an outside chance I might make KGX early and I'd rather get home early than wait around, as my usual policy of beers in the Parcel Yard just won't cut it with a 12 year old.

Also, would I be able to chuck a plusbus on the Crawley end for both Saturday and Sunday? But of course, if I did that, I might not need to use the train at all on the Sunday. And on the outward on Saturday I might Thameslink to Gatwick, drop the big bag early and get the bus to my hotel.

There are plenty of options available for me if this doesn't work.

 

[Class800]

What you propose seems fine overall, BoJ is permitted. The finer details of timings for the return leg starting short I will leave to more senior experts. As for whether you can use the Maltese cross from Paddington to Kings Cross, it's not an obvious route on that ticket, but put it in the ticket gates and if it accepts it use it, if not accepted use a contactless card for that tube connection? It is definitely fine to use the Maltese cross from KGX to Victoria on the tube on the outbound.

 

[Nunners]

Hello there, I've had so much useful help over the years, I'm wondering if someone can please help with a journey I'm making next weekend.

I'm flying out of Gatwick with my son, who is 12. We have a F&F railcard for this journey and are looking for flexibility.

I'm looking at a Super-Off Peak GMB-CRW, £77.20 for me and £22.20 for the boy. The restriction code for this ticket is 1L, which means I can't use it to leave London between 14:59 and 18:59 Mon-Fri.

Saturday 12th Feb, we're planning on leaving Grimsby Town at 11.21 to get the Northern service to Retford, and then LNER to Kings Cross. We're going to BoJ at Kings Cross to take PCR tests, and then go on to Crawley where we're staying overnight. I'm presuming I can use the Maltese Cross for this from KGX to Victoria?

The following day (Sunday) at about 1600 or thereabouts we're going to go back up the line to Gatwick Airport, where we're leaving the service. I was planning on maybe using the beginning of the return portion to do this (although I might just get a bus, which passes my hotel regularly). I believe there are gates at both Crawley and Gatwick, so will they mark the ticket as used?

On Thursday 17th Feb we're flying back into the country, but into Heathrow. We arrive at about 1600, taking HEX to Paddington (I've bought that ticket in advance already) and I'm anticipating getting the 1906 LNER service to Lincoln and then onwards from there to Grimsby Town. I have a couple of later options if need be. I was planning on using the rest of the GMB-CRW return portion for this journey.

Now, I'm pretty confident about the outward, and the back end of the return, what I'm wondering is whether I can make a 5 day BoJ on the return portion in the way I've planned, breaking at GTW and resuming at KGX several days later.
I'm also wondering if I can use the Maltese Cross to get from Paddington to KGX, and also I'm wondering if, because I'm starting the return journey outside London a few days prior to the KGX-GMB portion, whether I'm still restricted to trains between certain times on the Thursday. There's an outside chance I might make KGX early and I'd rather get home early than wait around, as my usual policy of beers in the Parcel Yard just won't cut it with a 12 year old.

Also, would I be able to chuck a plusbus on the Crawley end for both Saturday and Sunday? But of course, if I did that, I might not need to use the train at all on the Sunday. And on the outward on Saturday I might Thameslink to Gatwick, drop the big bag early and get the bus to my hotel.

There are plenty of options available for me if this doesn't work.

The BoJ on the way back is fine.

It should work in the gates at Paddington and King's Cross on the way back (although others may want to comment about it being marked as used from Crawley to Gatwick as I don't know about that). Make sure it's a paper ticket not an e-ticket as e-tickets don't work on the Underground.

Not sure about plusbus, but I think you're allowed to buy one as long as you have a valid ticket to the station for that day.

 

[robbeech]

All looks fine to me. No problem with the break of journey on the way back.

Agree that Paddington gateline might not like the ticket but give it a try and if not it’s just a contactless fare additional.

What I will say is, whilst the Northern Sheffield to Cleethorpes services via Brigg ARE back in the timetable from Saturday 12th, I wouldn’t plan a journey without an alternative. They essentially have until 2200 on Friday 11th to decide whether to bother running them or not so look at how other options fit just in case. Sounds as if you may have time to spare on that day.

 

[DeeGee]

What I will say is, whilst the Northern Sheffield to Cleethorpes services via Brigg ARE back in the timetable from Saturday 12th, I wouldn’t plan a journey without an alternative. They essentially have until 2200 on Friday 11th to decide whether to bother running them or not so look at how other options fit just in case. Sounds as if you may have time to spare on that day.

To be fair, I've only got that in the plan because I have never taken it before. I'll look the night before, and if we have to go an hour earlier via Doncaster, then so be it.

Make sure it's a paper ticket not an e-ticket as e-tickets don't work on the Underground.

Hadn't thought of that. Was just going to get an eticket on the way to the station, as it's one less thing to lose, but I'll book online in advance now and go and collect. I'd just do it in person at the ticket office, but I do like a Nectar point...

 

[Class800]

Yes Rob Beech is correct that you can't use e-tickets on Underground - they should not be offered for Maltese cross enabled flows, but it is possible something could do wrong with the issuing. Go for paper tickets.

 

[DeeGee]

What I will say is, whilst the Northern Sheffield to Cleethorpes services via Brigg ARE back in the timetable from Saturday 12th, I wouldn’t plan a journey without an alternative. They essentially have until 2200 on Friday 11th to decide whether to bother running them or not so look at how other options fit just in case. Sounds as if you may have time to spare on that day.

Let's say for the sake of argument, that a chap got an itinerary from a ticket retailing site, booked and paid for tickets before this decision had been made, and then found out that the Sheffield train wasn't running and therefore had to get the TPE one an hour or so later. Would that chap be entitled to delay compensation? In which case, I'm definitely booking and planning for the Brigg train.

 

[Class800]

Let's say for the sake of argument, that a chap got an itinerary from a ticket retailing site, booked and paid for tickets before this decision had been made, and then found out that the Sheffield train wasn't running and therefore had to get the TPE one an hour or so later. Would that chap be entitled to delay compensation? In which case, I'm definitely booking and planning for the Brigg train.

Seemingly not under new version of conditions of carriage, but could be arguable if book before they come into force on 6 February.

 

[AlterEgo]

Let's say for the sake of argument, that a chap got an itinerary from a ticket retailing site, booked and paid for tickets before this decision had been made, and then found out that the Sheffield train wasn't running and therefore had to get the TPE one an hour or so later. Would that chap be entitled to delay compensation? In which case, I'm definitely booking and planning for the Brigg train.

Yes if you book before the 6th, when the new conditions of carriage come in which changes things.

 

[Haywain]

I'm wondering if, because I'm starting the return journey outside London a few days prior to the KGX-GMB portion, whether I'm still restricted to trains between certain times on the Thursday.

You will still be subject to time restrictions travelling from Kings Cross on the Thursday. The time restrictions on the ticket you propose to purchase apply to and from Kings Cross, and still apply after a break of journey.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Feb 2022 ==

Yes if you book before the 6th, when the new conditions of carriage come in which changes things.

And, in all likelihood, afterwards if the relevant train company's Passengers Charter does not reflect the new NRCoT. The NRCoT covers the minimum compensation that may be expected, not the maximum.

 

[DeeGee]

You will still be subject to time restrictions travelling from Kings Cross on the Thursday. The time restrictions on the ticket you propose to purchase apply to and from Kings Cross, and still apply after a break of journey.

Thanks, dinner at Kings Cross it is, then. To be honest, I don't anticipate arriving at KGX too much before 7 anyway.

 

[Hadders]

Rather than crossing London and getting a train from Victoria to Gatwick, consider popping across the road and getting a direct Thameslink train from St Pancras to Gatwick Airport.

 

[DeeGee]

Rather than crossing London and getting a train from Victoria to Gatwick, consider popping across the road and getting a direct Thameslink train from St Pancras to Gatwick Airport.

Cheers, I'm aware of that option. Depends on times and such like. Given that I'll be with luggage, I might do that anyway. There's an opportunity to check my bag in the day before the flight at Gatwick, so I might well be dropping off the train there and then continuing my journey by bus with just an overnight bag to the hotel in Crawley anyway.

The planned timings, allowing for a PCR test on Pentonville Road - office is actually opposite the old Thameslink Station - provide for a slightly sharper exit via Victoria. Of course, this depends on how long the whole PCR routine takes, and whether I'll be able to sneak in early.

 

[Class800]

You could resume your outward journey at Gatwick to go to Crawley

 

[sonic2009]

You've mentioned that you've already bought your HEX tickets. Would it not be worth considering especially with Luggage taking the Piccadilly line from Heathrow direct to Kings Cross?

 

[DeeGee]

You've mentioned that you've already bought your HEX tickets. Would it not be worth considering especially with Luggage taking the Piccadilly line from Heathrow direct to Kings Cross?

I had a feeling that HEX would be quicker. I could be wrong, though.

Also, the boy quite likes a ride on the HEX.

It's not going to be a huge amount of luggage.

 

[sonic2009]

I had a feeling that HEX would be quicker. I could be wrong, though.

Also, the boy quite likes a ride on the HEX.

It's not going to be a huge amount of luggage.

It's roughly 42 mins HEX/H&C/Circle or 59 minutes Piccadilly.

But if your boy likes HEX then there's your choice.

 

[DeeGee]

I've got a quick supplementary.

I've got hotels booked and everything for this journey, but they're cancellable without charge.

If I should find a more suitably priced hotel in, say, Croydon on the way down, am I permitted to make an overnight Break of Journey? Or for instance, if I decided to toddle off to stay with family in London overnight and then rejoined the next day where I left the route, would that be permitted? Would I be expected to get an early train the next morning, or would it be acceptable to set off again at, say, 3pm? Or does that way lie all manner of issues?

 

[robbeech]

Breaking the outward journey overnight is possible in theory but it will not come without hassle.

The restrictions say you may finish your outward journey on day two if you couldn’t complete it on day one but doesn’t define what means you could or could not so it’s open to interpretation (some say it’s clear and that’s fair but in the real world many staff won’t accept it regardless of it’s validity).
If it’s a short inexpensive journey you would be best to try the ticket on day 2 (it’ll almost certainly be rejected at a gateline) and then be prepared to be rejected manually and buy a new ticket which you should be able to claim back. You are VERY u likely to be able to do a cross London on day 2.

 

[island]

I've got a quick supplementary.

I've got hotels booked and everything for this journey, but they're cancellable without charge.

If I should find a more suitably priced hotel in, say, Croydon on the way down, am I permitted to make an overnight Break of Journey? Or for instance, if I decided to toddle off to stay with family in London overnight and then rejoined the next day where I left the route, would that be permitted? Would I be expected to get an early train the next morning, or would it be acceptable to set off again at, say, 3pm? Or does that way lie all manner of issues?

All manner of issues.

The conditions do allow you to break a journey overnight when you could not complete it on the first day, but breaks of journey for the passenger's personal convenience stretch this condition out of shape.

Additionally, the expiry date printed on the outbound portion of the ticket will be the first day, and anyone encountering a gateline or a member of staff with a ticket dated the previous day will almost certainly be faced with difficulty.

 

[DeeGee]

In which case, I'll happily stick with the plan as already decided.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes Rob Beech is correct that you can't use e-tickets on Underground - they should not be offered for Maltese cross enabled flows, but it is possible something could do wrong with the issuing. Go for paper tickets.

I'm fairly certain that I haven't enabled any cross london flows for eTickets so ignore this advice as they won't show as available.

 

[Class800]

But if they do for some reason, then don't select the e-ticket.

 

[Hadders]

Or just use Thameslink in the highly unlikely event of being issued an e-ticket.

 

[Wallsendmag]

But if they do for some reason, then don't select the e-ticket.

Thanks for the vote of confidence both I wouldn't use the tube for this journey btw.

 

[DeeGee]

What I will say is, whilst the Northern Sheffield to Cleethorpes services via Brigg ARE back in the timetable from Saturday 12th, I wouldn’t plan a journey without an alternative. They essentially have until 2200 on Friday 11th to decide whether to bother running them or not so look at how other options fit just in case. Sounds as if you may have time to spare on that day.

And they're no longer on NRE. Doesn't matter too much, I'll go an hour earlier, I've rebooked the PCR test, and we'll get to the hotel in good time for tea.