Greater Anglia - Kings Lynn

[DarloRich]

A quick one - have Greater Anglia stopped running to Kings Lynn?

Asking as my mum has moved out that way and she has ben told to get the "Anglia" train to London as they are better than the "Thames" ones. Personally I would drive to Peterborough and get the LNER!

 

[adrock1976]

If you are referring to the Liverpool Street - Kings Lynn via Broxbourne, there was only a couple of direct trains in each direction pre pandemic, operated by Greater Anglia.

It is Kings Cross - Kings Lynn via Hitchin and Shepreth Branch, operated by the Great Northern brand of Govia Thameslink Railway. Pre pandemic, the frequency is every 30 minutes to Cambridge (North?) or Ely, with trains extending every 60 minutes to Kings Lynn.

These are the ones that run non stop Kings Cross - Cambridge, then call all stations north of there. Also, some trains couple/uncouple at Cambridge as some stations north of Ely cannot take more than 8 coaches.

@bramling may be able to comment further as I know this is one forum member at least that is more familiar with this route than I am.

 

[Magdalia]

These are the ones that run non stop Kings Cross - Cambridge, then call all stations north of there. Also, some trains couple/uncouple at Cambridge as some stations north of Ely cannot take more than 8 coaches.

That's all been dealt with: (almost?) all Kings Lynn trains are 8 cars throughout.

the frequency is every 30 minutes to Cambridge (North?) or Ely

Ely, Great Northern don't terminate at Cambridge North.

If you are referring to the Liverpool Street - Kings Lynn via Broxbourne, there was only a couple of direct trains in each direction pre pandemic, operated by Greater Anglia.

Greater Anglia have a few peak hour trains in the full timetable but at present Greater Anglia don't go beyond Cambridge North.

 

[bramling]

If you are referring to the Liverpool Street - Kings Lynn via Broxbourne, there was only a couple of direct trains in each direction pre pandemic, operated by Greater Anglia.

It is Kings Cross - Kings Lynn via Hitchin and Shepreth Branch, operated by the Great Northern brand of Govia Thameslink Railway. Pre pandemic, the frequency is every 30 minutes to Cambridge (North?) or Ely, with trains extending every 60 minutes to Kings Lynn.

These are the ones that run non stop Kings Cross - Cambridge, then call all stations north of there. Also, some trains couple/uncouple at Cambridge as some stations north of Ely cannot take more than 8 coaches.

@bramling may be able to comment further as I know this is one forum member at least that is more familiar with this route than I am.

The only thing I can really add is that GA were planning to run to Kings Lynn in their base December timetable, but aren’t now doing so with their amended timetable.

Can anyone comment on when the last GA service reached Kings Lynn?

If Kings Lynn doesn’t feature in the May timetable when it comes out then I’d say that will be the answer to the question. There’s certainly been rumours to similar effect.

 

[DarloRich]

thanks chaps - it didn't quite sit right with me. I suspect the person giving my mum some advice was a former regular peak hours traveller to London.

 

[tommy2215]

Peak Liverpool Street - King's Lynn services have run during the pandemic. They were reintroduced in July 2020 before going again when we had the Delta wave, came back after a lot of restrictions were relaxed, then were removed from the timetable again when the omicron restrictions came in.

 

[Shwam3]

The GA services to King's Lynn will resume on the 7th Feb with one up & one down train per day, they will be operated by a 720.

 

[DarloRich]

Peak Liverpool Street - King's Lynn services have run during the pandemic. They were reintroduced in July 2020 before going again when we had the Delta wave, came back after a lot of restrictions were relaxed, then were removed from the timetable again when the omicron restrictions came in.

The GA services to King's Lynn will resume on the 7th Feb with one up & one down train per day, they will be operated by a 720.

interesting - thank you

 

[Brooke]

In case it’s helpful: I regularly get Greater Anglia to Cambridge North, then change to Great Northern up to Kings Lynn.

It’s substantially cheaper than Great Northern the whole way, esp if you pre-book and/or split-ticket.

And if you’re going anywhere east London or to the City, it takes the same time end to end.

 

[bspahh]

In case it’s helpful: I regularly get Greater Anglia to Cambridge North, then change to Great Northern up to Kings Lynn.

It’s substantially cheaper than Great Northern the whole way, esp if you pre-book and/or split-ticket.

And if you’re going anywhere east London or to the City, it takes the same time end to end.

I would change at Cambridge going Northbound, as there are more facilities on the platform (toilets, coffee, M&S) than at Cambridge North. Southbound I would change at Cambridge North to be able to wait on the train and get a 2+2 seat.

 

[trebor79]

A quick one - have Greater Anglia stopped running to Kings Lynn?

Asking as my mum has moved out that way and she has ben told to get the "Anglia" train to London as they are better than the "Thames" ones. Personally I would drive to Peterborough and get the LNER!

Crikey. Allow an hour to drive to Peterborough. Then get stung for parking, allow another 10 minutes at least to park the car, pay for parking at get to the platform.
Odd choice when there's a decent direct service but whatever floats your boat.

 

[DarloRich]

Odd choice when there's a decent direct service but whatever floats your boat.

it is the same journey time from where she is to either Peterbrough or Kings Lynn and then a quicker journey from Peterbrough by a better train imo

 

[trebor79]

it is the same journey time from where she is to either Peterbrough or Kings Lynn and then a quicker journey from Peterbrough by a better train imo

Oh sorry, I thought she lived in Kings Lynn!

 

[DarloRich]

Oh sorry, I thought she lived in Kings Lynn!

that would be easier than where she is!

 

[47421]

720 at KL on this yesterday

Realtime Trains | 5Q03 0813 Stratford (London) to Kings Lynn | 02/02/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q03 0813 departure from Stratford (London) to Kings Lynn on 02/02/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[MikeWM]

New posters at Ely this morning telling passengers to travel in the first 4 carriages (of 5) for alighting at Watlington. So, yes, it seems that 720s it is :-/

 

[DarloRich]

is the 720 not a nice unit then?

 

[ainsworth74]

is the 720 not a nice unit then?

Not on that journey length. Densely packed 3+2 seating. They are close to being an excellent out-suburban unit but they've been ruined by cramming too many seats into them. Wifi, toilets, charging points, seat back tables, seats are hard but not terrible, good onboard information so lots of plus points. But ruined by cramming in as many seats as possible into the space.

 

[bramling]

is the 720 not a nice unit then?

They are, erm, a little cramped, not least with 3+2 airline seating.

For me, they have the feel of a cramped school bus rather than a train. I feel they compare badly even to a 317 or 321.

 

[ainsworth74]

They are, erm, a little cramped, not least with 3+2 airline seating.

For me, they have the feel of a cramped school bus rather than a train. I feel they compare badly even to a 317 or 321.

Absolutely. Rip out a couple of rows to give some more leg room and change them to 2+2 and I think they'd be a fantastic unit.

 

[DarloRich]

Not on that journey length. Densely packed 3+2 seating. They are close to being an excellent out-suburban unit but they've been ruined by cramming too many seats into them. Wifi, toilets, charging points, seat back tables, seats are hard but not terrible, good onboard information so lots of plus points. But ruined by cramming in as many seats as possible into the space.

They are, erm, a little cramped, not least with 3+2 airline seating.

For me, they have the feel of a cramped school bus rather than a train. I feel they compare badly even to a 317 or 321.

thanks - I haven't had a chance to travel on one yet.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Why have King's Lynn to Liverpool Street trains been downgraded so much over the years? I can remember proper intercity rolling stock that often included a buffet/restaurant car.

 

[D6975]

Why have King's Lynn to Liverpool Street trains been downgraded so much over the years? I can remember proper intercity rolling stock that often included a buffet/restaurant car.

It's not just Kings Lynn, there are lots of places where the quality (if not frequency) of the service is now worse than it was back in the 1960s.

 

[Brooke]

It's not just Kings Lynn, there are lots of places where the quality (if not frequency) of the service is now worse than it was back in the 1960s.

It’s particularly stark when you compare Kings Lynn trains to Norwich trains from London.

Kings Lynn trains: low grade, filthy, very expensive.

Norwich trains: nice spec, mostly clean, quite a lot cheaper.

My folks live somewhere between the two, Norwich is a bit further away but I tend to favor it overall.

 

[MikeWM]

is the 720 not a nice unit then?

Not really, for the reasons others have mentioned. Especially when compared to the 379s they're replacing, they represent a major downgrade.

Pre-Covid, I'd been almost exclusively going on the WAML for Cambridge-London trips, partly because of GN's weekend issues and partly because the GA-only tickets were quite a bit cheaper. I'd probably have continued to do so if the 379s were staying around. But now I'll be mostly sticking with the GN side and paying the extra.

 

[bramling]

It’s particularly stark when you compare Kings Lynn trains to Norwich trains from London.

Kings Lynn trains: low grade, filthy, very expensive.

Norwich trains: nice spec, mostly clean, quite a lot cheaper.

My folks live somewhere between the two, Norwich is a bit further away but I tend to favor it overall.

I'd say this analysis is a little negative.

Since being electrified in the 90s, Kings Lynn has had the luxury of having its rolling stock replaced not once but twice.

1992-1997 - served by class 317s - oldest 15 years old at replacement, newest around 10 years old
1997-2017 - served by class 365s - new to the route, just over 20 years old at replacement
2017-2022 - served by class 387s - 3 years old upon arrival, now 7 years old

I realise GA have run 317s up there at times during that, however by far the mainstay of the service has been provided by WAGN/FCC/GN, and since electrification these services have never seen a train older than 20 years. Notwithstanding the ironing board seats in the 387s which we know at least one particular well-known user dislikes, I don't think anyone can say Kings Lynn has had a bad deal. Since 2020 Kings Lynn also has had the luxury of virtually solid 8-car service, which again is by no means a bad deal.

For the bulk of the above time the GN service to Kings Lynn was solid 365, which like the 387s were pretty high-spec when first introduced, though we know they were "dumbed down" somewhat during the 2010s refurbishment.

 

[dk1]

thanks - I haven't had a chance to travel on one yet.

If they are just comfortably loaded they are fine. Also nice & airy.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

thanks - I haven't had a chance to travel on one yet.

I would say, like a modernised 350(2)/360… there are seatback tables, more comfortable (IMO) Kiel seat, plugs… but then that same rather compact 3+2 throughout, short length and rather basic feel inside.

 

[Brooke]

I'd say this analysis is a little negative.

Since being electrified in the 90s, Kings Lynn has had the luxury of having its rolling stock replaced not once but twice.

1992-1997 - served by class 317s - oldest 15 years old at replacement, newest around 10 years old
1997-2017 - served by class 365s - new to the route, just over 20 years old at replacement
2017-2022 - served by class 387s - 3 years old upon arrival, now 7 years old

I realise GA have run 317s up there at times during that, however by far the mainstay of the service has been provided by WAGN/FCC/GN, and since electrification these services have never seen a train older than 20 years. Notwithstanding the ironing board seats in the 387s which we know at least one particular well-known user dislikes, I don't think anyone can say Kings Lynn has had a bad deal. Since 2020 Kings Lynn also has had the luxury of virtually solid 8-car service, which again is by no means a bad deal.

For the bulk of the above time the GN service to Kings Lynn was solid 365, which like the 387s were pretty high-spec when first introduced, though we know they were "dumbed down" somewhat during the 2010s refurbishment.

Sure, compared to where I’m originally from up north, Kings Lynn has it good.

It’s just that Norwich in my view has it far better. Example: I’m regularly going up there for £20 return from London, booking only a few days in advance. Whereas Kings Lynn return (from KX) on a weekend is £53.

You’d think for that extra £33 you’d be getting a much better product, but actually it’s worse.

So I vote with my feet / wallet and go to Norwich instead!

 

[Magdalia]

Why have King's Lynn to Liverpool Street trains been downgraded so much over the years? I can remember proper intercity rolling stock that often included a buffet/restaurant car.

Inter City rolling stock and a buffet car is more than 30 years ago now: it was a train every 2 hours with a journey time of more than 2 hours.

Kings Cross became the main route after electrification in 1992 because of faster journey times and to free up paths at Liverpool Street for Stansted Express.

From 1992 right up to covid its been a virtuous circle of traffic growth followed by faster schedules, increased frequency, longer trains and newer trains.