Leading asset sweating diagrams present or past

[GordonT]

A contender for what I am thinking about would be Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High in the days of the 30ms frequency service where the sets were yo-yoing back and forward all day at max line speed as much as possible with 50ms journey time per single journey and 10ms turnround time at each end. Any other examples of equally or more intensive diagramming?

 

[Magdalia]

In class 365 days the KGX-CBG/KLN/PBO fast and semi-fast services were interlinked and intensively worked with most turnrounds <20 mins.

Some units staying out all day covered nearly 1000 miles.

Currently class 387s do alternate KGX-KLN and KGX-ELY covering 335 miles in an 8 hour cycle but with longer turnrounds, except at KLN, so it is not quite so intensive now.

 

[robbeech]

The RobinHood line services always seemed to be pretty full on when they were running a full timetable before the pandemic. A train would do a Nottingham to Worksop run, have a booked 5 or 6 minute turn around, return to Nottingham, 10 minute turn around and then do a Mansfield Woodhouse run and back, rinse and repeat. A 5 minute delay on the single line could throw the service out for half a day. At the moment the service twiddles it’s thumbs in Nottingham for 40 minutes (it’s possible that the crew go onto something else I guess).

 

[Gloster]

At one time the HST that came up from Penzance on the Golden Hind in the morning then did a return trip to South Wales, before heading west again. I think, although I am not absolutely certain, that it went right back to Penzance on the Down Hind.

 

[2192]

Wasn't there an HST diagram which did Leeds - Aberdeen - Kings Cross - Leeds, but had easier schedules on other days of the week?

 

[Watershed]

There is (or was) a Pendolino diagram which clocked up in excess of 1300 miles, starting in Wembley, doing a Liverpool return, a Glasgow return and then heading up to Manchester and Longsight. Though admittedly it started at 4am and finished at 2am.

 

[55002]

There is (or was) a Pendolino diagram which clocked up in excess of 1300 miles, starting in Wembley, doing a Liverpool return, a Glasgow return and then heading up to Manchester and Longsight. Though admittedly it started at 4am and finished at 2am.

Yes think that’s longest one today isnt it? Or at least pre Covid. The ECML one used to be Neville Hill to Lincoln to KGX to Aberdeen to Leeds to Neville Hill.

 

[LA50041]

A contender for what I am thinking about would be Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High in the days of the 30ms frequency service where the sets were yo-yoing back and forward all day at max line speed as much as possible with 50ms journey time per single journey and 10ms turnround time at each end. Any other examples of equally or more intensive diagramming?

The 387/2's on the Victoria-Brighton services run all day with 10-12 min turnarounds covering over 700 miles a day

 

[Bikeman78]

The class 37 that did the 0150 Holyhead to Birmingham did close to 1000 miles in a day. I think it did three round trips which is about 930 miles. These days a 158 or 175 (or even a 150) often does two round trips Holyhead to Cardiff Central which is 932 miles.

 

[43096]

Yes think that’s longest one today isnt it? Or at least pre Covid. The ECML one used to be Neville Hill to Lincoln to KGX to Aberdeen to Leeds to Neville Hill.

There was an East Coast diagram that worked Aberdeen-London-Leeds-London-Newcastle; a total of 1,169 miles on one tank of fuel.

It was also not unknown for the HST off the southbound Inverness to arrive at King’s Cross and turn straight round to do the 1600 to Aberdeen.

 

[sjm77]

This is an easy question; Wrexham to Bidston!
A 58 minute schedule following by a 2 minute turnaround at each end.
There was a famous timetable from a couple of years ago where 3 minutes recovery time were added in the public timetable meaning some units had to start their next journey 1 minute before they were shown to terminate their prior service

 

[DaveTM]

It's not quite in the same league in terms of mileage, but the first 313 out of Littlehampton to Portsmouth in the morning clocks up 344 miles in a day. But in doing so it makes 129 station stops, without any regenerative or rheostatic braking, and (signals permitting) you reach at least 50mph between almost all the stations. That's got to eat through brake blocks and disks pretty fast!

 

[nw1]

Southern services at Southampton Central have very short turnarounds considering the distance travelled and propensity for delays. Results in frequent terminating short at Fareham. Really, they ought to interwork the Victorias and the Brightons for longer turnaround times and greater reliability.

Some surprisingly short turnarounds at London terminals as long ago as 1982/3 (have a CWN of this particular year): I always assumed that a London terminus turnaround had to be at least 10 minutes. For example, 1452 arrival at Sevenoaks at CHX, forms 1458 out to Hayes. 1505 in from Gillingham, 1512 out to Gravesend. I always assumed also that very short turnarounds were a new, post-privatisation thing.

 

[JonathanH]

I always assumed that a London terminus turnaround had to be at least 10 minutes. For example, 1452 arrival at Sevenoaks at CHX, forms 1458 out to Hayes. 1505 in from Gillingham, 1512 out to Gravesend. I always assumed also that very short turnarounds were a new, post-privatisation thing.

Charing Cross and Fenchurch Street simply wouldn't work in the peaks with 10 minute turnarounds on the shorter distance stuff, especially in the case of the former when the longer distance trains do get longer turnarounds, but of course both don't really see intensive use of their respective fleets.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

A contender for what I am thinking about would be Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High in the days of the 30ms frequency service where the sets were yo-yoing back and forward all day at max line speed as much as possible with 50ms journey time per single journey and 10ms turnround time at each end. Any other examples of equally or more intensive diagramming?

Throughout the class 27 era there were actually five sets in traffic each day which meant each set in turn came out of service for an hour or two through the day for servicing. The fifth set was required for one morning peak additional from Edinburgh to Glasgow and evening return and enabled the sets to rotate in this way. When the 47/7s came on the scene this arrangement did not continue for very long and the peak extras were then covered by sets which did other, non E&G, work during the day. Come the class 170s again these were rotated in and out of the E&G workings so in all cases, whilst still fairly intensive, not quite as intensive as it might appear at first glance.

In per covid days TPE had a class 397 diagrammed to make five single trips between Edinburgh and Manchester Airport - 06xx 14 xx and 22xx from Edinburgh and 10xx & 18.xx from MIA - including ecs miles Polmadie to Edinburgh and Airport to Longsight this was over 1200 miles, quite impressive for any service not benefitting spending the day on the faster routes to/from London, and with turnrounds of around 20 mins at the south end and around30 mins in Edinburgh not much margin for error. The 'day' from leaving Polmadie to arriving Longsight was just over 22 hours, and the total mileage for the day roughly equivalent to three single legs between London and Edinburgh or Glasgow.

 

[Ken H]

It's not quite in the same league in terms of mileage, but the first 313 out of Littlehampton to Portsmouth in the morning clocks up 344 miles in a day. But in doing so it makes 129 station stops, without any regenerative or rheostatic braking, and (signals permitting) you reach at least 50mph between almost all the stations. That's got to eat through brake blocks and disks pretty fast!

Didn't 313s have 'waste heat recovery ' when new. I assumed rheostatic braking of some sort. But I don't really know.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Charing Cross and Fenchurch Street simply wouldn't work in the peaks with 10 minute turnarounds on the shorter distance stuff, especially in the case of the former when the longer distance trains do get longer turnarounds, but of course both don't really see intensive use of their respective fleets.

Southern services at Southampton Central have very short turnarounds considering the distance travelled and propensity for delays. Results in frequent terminating short at Fareham. Really, they ought to interwork the Victorias and the Brightons for longer turnaround times and greater reliability.

Some surprisingly short turnarounds at London terminals as long ago as 1982/3 (have a CWN of this particular year): I always assumed that a London terminus turnaround had to be at least 10 minutes. For example, 1452 arrival at Sevenoaks at CHX, forms 1458 out to Hayes. 1505 in from Gillingham, 1512 out to Gravesend. I always assumed also that very short turnarounds were a new, post-privatisation thing.

Nah London terminals don't have standard 10 minute turnarounds, they can be done in much less, frequently in 6 minutes.

 

[GordonT]

Throughout the class 27 era there were actually five sets in traffic each day which meant each set in turn came out of service for an hour or two through the day for servicing. The fifth set was required for one morning peak additional from Edinburgh to Glasgow and evening return and enabled the sets to rotate in this way. When the 47/7s came on the scene this arrangement did not continue for very long and the peak extras were then covered by sets which did other, non E&G, work during the day. Come the class 170s again these were rotated in and out of the E&G workings so in all cases, whilst still fairly intensive, not quite as intensive as it might appear at first glance.

In per covid days TPE had a class 397 diagrammed to make five single trips between Edinburgh and Manchester Airport - 06xx 14 xx and 22xx from Edinburgh and 10xx & 18.xx from MIA - including ecs miles Polmadie to Edinburgh and Airport to Longsight this was over 1200 miles, quite impressive for any service not benefitting spending the day on the faster routes to/from London, and with turnrounds of around 20 mins at the south end and around30 mins in Edinburgh not much margin for error. The 'day' from leaving Polmadie to arriving Longsight was just over 22 hours, and the total mileage for the day roughly equivalent to three single legs between London and Edinburgh or Glasgow.

An interesting and insightful post.

 

[Bikeman78]

It's not quite in the same league in terms of mileage, but the first 313 out of Littlehampton to Portsmouth in the morning clocks up 344 miles in a day. But in doing so it makes 129 station stops, without any regenerative or rheostatic braking, and (signals permitting) you reach at least 50mph between almost all the stations. That's got to eat through brake blocks and disks pretty fast!

The Moorgate 313s used to get hammered too. There were 21 sets of stock out on weekdays of which 17 stayed out all day. Some diagrams did a shunt at Welwyn Garden City and others only went to Watton instead of Stevenage, but other than that they were on the go constantly.

 

[a340egkk]

The Moorgate 313s used to get hammered too. There were 21 sets of stock out on weekdays of which 17 stayed out all day. Some diagrams did a shunt at Welwyn Garden City and others only went to Watton instead of Stevenage, but other than that they were on the go constantly.

SE 465/9s and 466s also rack up a lot of miles and stops (180+ on a lot of diagrams), again all without any dynamic brakes.

 

[D6975]

St Erth - St Ives under normal times is so intensive that it's not possible for every train to call at all stations and maintain a half hourly service. Alternate trains skip some stations to enable it. It's only hourly at the moment and missing the Lelant stops so is quite generously timed.

 

[NSE]

I always saw it mentioned here that the HEX 332’s always got worked hard.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I always saw it mentioned here that the HEX 332’s always got worked hard.

I thought that the Heathrow Express service was (for much of its life anyway) predicated on quite long turnarounds at Paddington so that there was 'always a train ready to board' on the 15-minute pattern. Very much a 'binary thrash' with a flat-out run followed by a longish dwell.

 

[bramling]

The Moorgate 313s used to get hammered too. There were 21 sets of stock out on weekdays of which 17 stayed out all day. Some diagrams did a shunt at Welwyn Garden City and others only went to Watton instead of Stevenage, but other than that they were on the go constantly.

I was going to mention the GN 313s.

Absolutely hammered in their final years, a combination of continuing incremental service improvements, 6 cars at weekends, no midday shortening from December 2017 (IIRC), increased late evening services, and running to Moorgate til close of traffic. Very intensive use for a 40-year-old fleet.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was going to mention the GN 313s.

Absolutely hammered in their final years, a combination of continuing incremental service improvements, 6 cars at weekends, no midday shortening from December 2017 (IIRC), increased late evening services, and running to Moorgate til close of traffic. Very intensive use for a 40-year-old fleet.

They ran 41 out of 44 sets on weekdays. I don't know how common short formations were but I didn't see any in the last few years. Very occasionally they managed to turn out an extra pair to cover a peak Royston train if short of main line units.