When Will It All Go Wrong For The Tories/ Johnson?

[Busaholic]

And Michael Fabricant (the one that looks like a parody of himself) has been on LBC and basically said that what Nusrat has said can't be true as she does not look like a stereotypical Muslim, yes because racism is always because of how someone looks

Is a Fabricant one who Fabricates? Very appropriately named - the most ridiculous MP since Lembit Opik, though not much to choose between them.

 

[DelayRepay]

And Michael Fabricant (the one that looks like a parody of himself) has been on LBC and basically said that what Nusrat has said can't be true as she does not look like a stereotypical Muslim, yes because racism is always because of how someone looks

I heard a suggestion that Michael Fabricant is actually Dominic Cummings in disguise. Has anyone ever seen them in the same place at the same time?

 

[Busaholic]

I heard a suggestion that Michael Fabricant is actually Dominic Cummings in disguise. Has anyone ever seen them in the same place at the same time?

Rod Hull lives!

 

[The Ham]

And Michael Fabricant (the one that looks like a parody of himself) has been on LBC and basically said that what Nusrat has said can't be true as she does not look like a stereotypical Muslim, yes because racism is always because of how someone looks

Exactly. What does it matter how someone looks when someone else is belittling them? Just because someone dissent fit what people think they they should look like doesn't mean that they are immune from people behaving badly towards them.

There are people of all kinds of faith from many different backgrounds, as an example the war in the Balkans was significantly along religious lines (Muslim/Christian). Chances are what they look like is more likely to be closer to a European than someone from the Middle East, assuming that was the case would it be impossible to attack individuals on religious grounds?

Given the war in the Balkans I'd suggest that it's not only entirely possible but there's a useful case study to which reference can be made.

Likewise there will be Christians in Muslim Countries (although not always; and I could have listed many different religious pairings with a similar outcome, as an example Hindu countries aren't always overly tolerate of other faiths, just as many will see Britain as a Christian Country and could highlight the example we are talking about as a case where we don't get it right) who may well outwardly look very similar (especially if they've converted from the religion of their country to another), again does that stop then from being persecuted/finds life hard/or any other unfair treatment due to differences.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The real question is why wasn't the same attention and and media coverage that was put onto the Labour antisemitism issue put onto this too?

You seem to be implying some kind of deliberate bias, but there is an obvious and very simple explanation that requires no assumption of bias: The press were probably paying more attention to Labour and anti-semitism because for a couple of years there was basically open warfare within Labour on the issue, with numerous Labour staff and politicians briefing and counter-briefing about anti-semitism, thereby providing the press with loads of material to report. By contrast, until this week, Tory accusations of Islamophobia was confined to a few people making allegations, with little follow-up. To what extent that reflects that the anti-semitism issue was more serious in Labour, vs. the Tories were simply less divided/better at closing ranks/etc. about Islamophobia allegations is open to debate. Either way, we can presumably expect much more press reporting of Islamophobia allegations in the Tories now that there are suddenly big arguments about the issue within the party.

 

[southern442]

You seem to be implying some kind of deliberate bias, but there is an obvious and very simple explanation that requires no assumption of bias: The press were probably paying more attention to Labour and anti-semitism because for a couple of years there was basically open warfare within Labour on the issue, with numerous Labour staff and politicians briefing and counter-briefing about anti-semitism, thereby providing the press with loads of material to report. By contrast, until this week, Tory accusations of Islamophobia was confined to a few people making allegations, with little follow-up. To what extent that reflects that the anti-semitism issue was more serious in Labour, vs. the Tories were simply less divided/better at closing ranks/etc. about Islamophobia allegations is open to debate. Either way, we can presumably expect much more press reporting of Islamophobia allegations in the Tories now that there are suddenly big arguments about the issue within the party.

This still relies on an assumption of bias. The issues of islamophobia within the Tory party have been in the public domain for almost as long as Labour and antisemitism. This means the press has made a conscious decision that because the Labour party is tearing itself apart over it, that therefore makes this type of prejudice more worthy of report than the other.

 

[brad465]

And Michael Fabricant (the one that looks like a parody of himself) has been on LBC and basically said that what Nusrat has said can't be true as she does not look like a stereotypical Muslim, yes because racism is always because of how someone looks

He also looks like a Boris Johnson tribute act (one of many joke references of him floating around recently). Fabricant also said this week that he "defended" Whips blackmail by saying if he reported all the instances the Whips threatened him, the police wouldn't get anything done. If the Tories want to recover from all this, they need to stop having him on air at all, let alone for the many interviews he's done this week.

This still relies on an assumption of bias. The issues of islamophobia within the Tory party have been in the public domain for almost as long as Labour and antisemitism. This means the press has made a conscious decision that because the Labour party is tearing itself apart over it, that therefore makes this type of prejudice more worthy of report than the other.

What's also interesting is there was barely any reporting of all the DUP's phobias during their time propping up May, apart from early on when the agreement was being made, where basically they despite anyone who isn't a UK heterosexual protestant.

 

[Gloster]

Looking at some of the bits of news that are seeping out, I wonder if Johnson is now trying to portray himself as being in the forefront of opposition to Putin’s interest in a long holiday in Ukraine. It has the advantage of diverting attention away from all the various messes that are floating around, allows him to wrap himself in the flag and ‘say support me in our hour of need’, and, depending on what happens, gives him a chance to either take the credit for forcing Putin to back down or blame all the other countries (France and Germany already seem to be in the sights) for not following his heroic (Churchillian in his mind) leadership. Of course, it might ramp up the tension and bring about a conflict which others might have satisfactorily avoided.

Johnson probably sees it as his Falklands, but, as Sir Humphrey once said, he might be Galtieri.

 

[Busaholic]

He also looks like a Boris Johnson tribute act (one of many joke references of him floating around recently). Fabricant also said this week that he "defended" Whips blackmail by saying if he reported all the instances the Whips threatened him, the police wouldn't get anything done. If the Tories want to recover from all this, they need to stop having him on air at all, let alone for the many interviews he's done this week.

The Tories have a long tradition of 'rent-a-quote' MPs with huge egos much larger than their brains, Fabricant being successor to such as Peter Bruinvels, Ivan Lawrence, Ann Widdecombe and Mark Francois: even Edwina Currie still pops up from time to time. Nigel Farage would love to join them I'm sure. The Liberals had Evan Harris, Lembit Opik and Mark Oaten, Labour Stephen Pound (at least he didn't take himself too seriously), Denis MaCshane (self-righteous until exposed as a crook) and Diane Abbott, who made a semi-career out of it.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

What's also interesting is there was barely any reporting of all the DUP's phobias during their time propping up May, apart from early on when the agreement was being made, where basically they despite anyone who isn't a UK heterosexual protestant.

Umm ... why should they have reported it? Personally I very much disagree with the DUP's previous stance on homosexuality, but the main job of the press is to report *news* and the fact that the DUP had a long-standing position on homosexuality that you and I (and doubtless many other people) would have disagreed with wasn't actually news. Especially as the DUPs position on homosexuality wasn't - as far as I'm aware - influencing UK Government policy in any way.

I also think you're final phrase "they despite anyone who isn't a UK heterosexual protestant." is a bit of an overexaggeration. Not really accurate.

 

[seagull]

It's a shame that these days, a simple dislike of something appears to be a "phobia". Or at least, phobia gets tagged on when it helps to cause maximum demonisation of the person doing the disliking.
What a boring country this would be if everyone liked exactly the same thing as everyone else.

 

[AM9]

Umm ... why should they have reported it? Personally I very much disagree with the DUP's previous stance on homosexuality, but the main job of the press is to report *news* and the fact that the DUP had a long-standing position on homosexuality that you and I (and doubtless many other people) would have disagreed with wasn't actually news. Especially as the DUPs position on homosexuality wasn't - as far as I'm aware - influencing UK Government policy in any way.

I also think you're final phrase "they despite anyone who isn't a UK heterosexual protestant." is a bit of an overexaggeration. Not really accurate.

Actually the main job of the press is to make profit for their proprietors, that's how it works in a capitalist state. How they do that within the law is at the whim of the proprietor and his hired editor. Much of the criticism of press output is from individuals whose personal opinions or interests don't coincide with that pursued by the specific journal that they criticise.
In the dog eat dog world of a capitalist press there is no right or wrong save for the limitations created by law.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I also think you're final phrase "they despite anyone who isn't a UK heterosexual protestant." is a bit of an overexaggeration. Not really accurate.

I wonder if he meant to say "they despise" rather than "they despite"?

 

[AM9]

I wonder if he meant to say "they despise" rather than "they despite"?

Or maybe just "spite ...."

 

[nw1]

And Michael Fabricant (the one that looks like a parody of himself) has been on LBC and basically said that what Nusrat has said can't be true as she does not look like a stereotypical Muslim, yes because racism is always because of how someone looks

Fabricant, that's a name from the past. Still sadly here by the looks of it, one thing about the 2019 elections is how all the really bad politicians managed to hang on, while many of the relatively good ones lost their seat/stood down.

Remember noting him from the early or mid 90s as a reactionary right wing idiot.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Fabricant, that's a name from the past. Still sadly here by the looks of it, one thing about the 2019 elections is how all the really bad politicians managed to hang on, while many of the relatively good ones lost their seat/stood down.

Remember noting him from the early or mid 90s as a reactionary right wing idiot.

"Managed to hang on" does not reflect the result of the 2019 General Election at Lichfield:-
Fabricant has continuously represented Lichfield since April 1992. He was returned as MP, with a majority of 23,638. The turnout was 70.5%

 

[edwin_m]

Fabricant, that's a name from the past. Still sadly here by the looks of it, one thing about the 2019 elections is how all the really bad politicians managed to hang on, while many of the relatively good ones lost their seat/stood down.

Or were kicked out of the party.

 

[brad465]

Lord Agnew has resigned (in dramatic style by doing so at the despatch box in the upper chamber) as Treasury Minister in protest at the Government's poor handling/prevention of fraudulent covid support handouts:

Conservative minister resigns in anger over Covid fraud

Lord Agnew says the government had made "schoolboy errors" when handing Covid loans to business.

www.bbc.co.uk

A Conservative minister in the House of Lords has resigned attacking the government's handling of fraudulent Covid business loans.
Lord Agnew accused the Treasury of having "no interest in the consequences of fraud to our society".
But he said his departure was "not an attack on the prime minister".
Last year, the National Audit Office criticised the government for failing to implement measures to prevent people exploiting Covid schemes.

Lord Agnew, a Treasury minister with responsibility for cross-government efficiency, said "a combination of arrogance, indolence and ignorance" was "freezing the government machine".
"I hope that as a virtually unknown minister beyond this place giving up my career might prompt other to get behind this and sort it out."
In a dramatic moment in the House of Lords, he read out his resignation speech in response to a question about loans, and concluded with a "thank you and goodbye".
He left the chamber to a round of applause - a rare occurrence in the Lords.
HMRC has insisted that "robust measures were put in place to control error and fraud in the key coronavirus support schemes".
A spokesman said: "We are grateful to Lord Agnew for the significant contribution he has made to government.
"On the wider issues that he's raised, we introduced our unprecedented Covid support schemes at speed to protect jobs and livelihoods, helping millions of people across the UK, including nearly 12 million on the furlough scheme alone.
"We've always been clear fraud is unacceptable and are taking action against those abusing the system, with 150,000 ineligible claims blocked, £500m recovered last year and the HMRC tax protection taskforce is expected to recover an additional £1bn of taxpayers' money."

While he says this is not an attack on the PM, it certainly won't help Johnson, but more significantly it will make life very hard for Sunak in a potential leadership bid, or should he become PM, it's created an open goal for opposition attack.

 

[nw1]

He also looks like a Boris Johnson tribute act (one of many joke references of him floating around recently).

So a tribute act of a tribute act; Johnson being a tribute act to a certain individual with the initials DJT, of course.

 

[Typhoon]

Lord Agnew has resigned (in dramatic style by doing so at the despatch box in the upper chamber) as Treasury Minister in protest at the Government's poor handling/prevention of fraudulent covid support handouts:

Conservative minister resigns in anger over Covid fraud

Lord Agnew says the government had made "schoolboy errors" when handing Covid loans to business.

www.bbc.co.uk

While he says this is not an attack on the PM, it certainly won't help Johnson, but more significantly it will make life very hard for Sunak in a potential leadership bid, or should he become PM, it's created an open goal for opposition attack.

Encouraging - that this has been brought out into the open. For some time on consumer programmes I listen to ('You and Yours' and 'Money Box') this has been raised with entirely innocent people having their names and other details 'borrowed' for the purpose of enabling fraudsters to rob HMG. The Revenue then chase these people up for the money, and, from the reports they are pretty heavy handed - saying that they will contact the innocent person's employers and take money from earnings (threats which dissipate once the media gets involved).

Examples can be found by clicking the links in the above story. Sample quotes include:

In May 2020, the British Business Bank warned the government its flagship loan scheme was at "very high risk of fraud" from organised crime.

A BBC investigation also revealed how criminals were setting up fake firms to get loans worth tens of thousands of pounds.

from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59504943

Former detective and now civilian fraud and money laundering expert Martin Woods says the scheme was always vulnerable.

"Criminals identified it as a fabulous opportunity," he said, adding there were inadequate checks on the applications that were made.

He added: "Ultimately, it will be our children and grandchildren who pay for this."

from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54187581

Agreed, this is clearly in Sunak's territory and with price hikes on the way, it may be a rocky few months at No 11. I just hope there were no parties!

 

[skyhigh]

And today's revelation - a 'surprise' Birthday party for Boris during the first lockdown...

Downing Street has admitted that staff gathered inside No 10 to celebrate Boris Johnson's birthday when the first Covid lockdown was still in place.
ITV News reports up to 30 people attended the June 2020 event, sang Happy Birthday and were served cake.
No 10 said staff had "gathered briefly" to "wish the prime minister a happy birthday", adding that he had been there "for less than 10 minutes".
Rules at the time banned most indoor gatherings of more than two people.
ITV News said the birthday event had taken place in the Cabinet Room just after 2pm on 19 June 2020, adding that it had been a surprise for Mr Johnson after he returned from an official trip to a school in Hertfordshire.
It also reported that family and friends had been hosted in the prime minister's residence that evening.
But a No 10 spokesperson said: "This is totally untrue. In line with the rules at the time the prime minister hosted a small number of family members outside that evening."

PM birthday event was held in No 10 during lockdown

Downing Street admits staff gathered to wish Boris Johnson well, following a report from ITV News.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[brad465]

There have been some arguments that the situation in Russia has helped Johnson buy time. Not forgetting though that an impending invasion of Britain in WW2 was not enough to stop Chamberlain leaving office.

 

[DelayRepay]

There have been some arguments that the situation in Russia has helped Johnson buy time. Not forgetting though that an impending invasion of Britain in WW2 was not enough to stop Chamberlain leaving office.

But a war did save Mrs Thatcher. So who knows?

 

[Busaholic]

But a war did save Mrs Thatcher. So who knows?

Saved her from what? She wasn't in any particular peril politically or personally. The Labour party were in turmoil. the USA chose not to join in and the whole South Atlantic thing was over in ten weeks. The scale of what might (probably will, unfortunately) happen in Ukraine dwarfs the Falklands on an exponential scale.

 

[Meole]

Encouraging - that this has been brought out into the open. For some time on consumer programmes I listen to ('You and Yours' and 'Money Box') this has been raised with entirely innocent people having their names and other details 'borrowed' for the purpose of enabling fraudsters to rob HMG. The Revenue then chase these people up for the money, and, from the reports they are pretty heavy handed - saying that they will contact the innocent person's employers and take money from earnings (threats which dissipate once the media gets involved).

Examples can be found by clicking the links in the above story. Sample quotes include:

from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59504943

from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54187581

Agreed, this is clearly in Sunak's territory and with price hikes on the way, it may be a rocky few months at No 11. I just hope there were no parties!

The instruction to staff was to pay loans without any checks apparently, the more given out the better as it would stimulate the economy, staff moved overnight from their normal work to the emergency give away.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2022 ==

And today's revelation - a 'surprise' Birthday party for Boris during the first lockdown...

PM birthday event was held in No 10 during lockdown

Downing Street admits staff gathered to wish Boris Johnson well, following a report from ITV News.

www.bbc.co.uk

No one can deny anyone a birthday party, this is scraping the barrel surely !

 

[Spamcan81]

The instruction to staff was to pay loans without any checks apparently, the more given out the better as it would stimulate the economy, staff moved overnight from their normal work to the emergency give away.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2022 ==


No one can deny anyone a birthday party, this is scraping the barrel surely !

Not if the party was against the lockdown rules in force at the time.

 

[Busaholic]

No one can deny anyone a birthday party, this is scraping the barrel surely !

Really? Beth Rigby and Inzamam Rashid were suspended for three months each by Sky News for attending Kay Burley's 60th birthday party, much to the glee of Johnson who'd been put on the rack by Burley several times at those excruciating Downing Street press conferences.

George Eustice has drawn the short straw to defend the latest revelation, great news as he's even more likely to lose his Camborne seat on top of the huge disaster Brexit has proved for the fishing industry locally which he continues to deny as Agriculture and Fisheries Minister.

 

[87 027]

Josephine sets a great example to us all by postponing her birthday party until we have sent coronavirus packing.

Together we can beat this. In the meantime let's all wish her happy birthday (twice) whilst washing our hands. #BeLikeJosephine #StayHomeSaveLives https://t.co/xmDOw60hhV pic.twitter.com/yl7uxe9lhh

— Boris Johnson (@BorisJohnson) March 21, 2020

Just a week before the party, the PM told the country 'meeting inside other people's homes — that remains against the law.'

Boris Johnson's lockdown birthday

‘Wait for Sue Gray’ has been the mantra on every ministers’ lips these past few weeks. But with just days to go before the senior civil servant is due to deliver her findings on ‘partygate’ how much longer can that line continue to hold? For this evening ITV have dropped yet another bombshell...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[southern442]

It's a shame that these days, a simple dislike of something appears to be a "phobia". Or at least, phobia gets tagged on when it helps to cause maximum demonisation of the person doing the disliking.
What a boring country this would be if everyone liked exactly the same thing as everyone else.

Ah yes, such a shame that a simple dislike of gay people appears to be 'homophobia'. What a boring country this would be if everyone liked exactly the same thing as everyone else!

 

[DelayRepay]

Saved her from what? She wasn't in any particular peril politically or personally. The Labour party were in turmoil. the USA chose not to join in and the whole South Atlantic thing was over in ten weeks. The scale of what might (probably will, unfortunately) happen in Ukraine dwarfs the Falklands on an exponential scale.

'Saved her' was an exaggeration but it gave her a boost in the polls.

I do not intend to make light of the situation in Ukraine, which could end up being very serious. I am very concerned that our Prime Minister may make decisions that are not in the UK's best interests, in order to try to distract from his other problems and/or provide a boost to his popularity in the polls.

No one can deny anyone a birthday party, this is scraping the barrel surely !

My birthday is in March. I spent my 2020 birthday at home, alone, as the UK entered lockdown a few days earlier. I did not have a cake. People sang 'Happy Birthday' over Facetime. I said, 'never mind, there's always next year'.

I also spent my 2021 birthday at home, alone, as we were in lockdown at the time. I was able to celebrate this birthday a week late, when the rules changed to allow six people to meet outdoors. So my birthday 'party' was meeting five people in the garden in the cold and rain.

I could, of course, have broken the rules, but Government ministers had appeared on TV encouraging people to report neighbours to the police for rule breaking, so I did not think it was worth it. I did not realise that all I had to do was claim that it didn't happen, it was a work event, nobody told me it was against the rules.

At the end of the day, I don't think people who were working together anyway spending 20 minutes celebrating a birthday is particularly serious. But it was against the rules that the rest of us had been forced to follow, with the threat of police action if we broke them. It was against rules that we were repeatedly told were absolutely essential in order to prevent deaths. And it's just one of many occasions when rules were broken in Downing Street. If it had been a one-off, I doubt anyone would care.