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Season Tickets

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stumpy

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Hi. I am hoping someone can help me? I am due to start a new job in London very soon (4th Jan) and trying to find the cheapest way of getting there. I am travelling from Bedford and need to get to Canary Wharf and Stratford and travel between the 2 frequently.

Someone has suggested to me to get a season travel card as if you get a zone 1-6 card it will also include the leg of the journey from your home station. Is this correct? What is the best/cheapest way to do this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
 
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Hi. I am hoping someone can help me? I am due to start a new job in London very soon (4th Jan) and trying to find the cheapest way of getting there. I am travelling from Bedford and need to get to Canary Wharf and Stratford and travel between the 2 frequently.

Someone has suggested to me to get a season travel card as if you get a zone 1-6 card it will also include the leg of the journey from your home station. Is this correct? What is the best/cheapest way to do this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

I assume the Stratford station you are referring to is the one on the GEML off of Liverpool Street and not Stratford International on HS1?

If so, give me a few minutes and I'll have a look. :)
 

stumpy

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Hi it is Stratford International from Bedford sometimes and canary Wharf. There is 2 offices unfortunately!
 
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Ah right, thanks for the clarification.

This could be tricky as Straford Int'l is not covered on the Travelcards as it is on HS1, I can't really help you with this but I'm sure someone who can will be along soon.
 

stumpy

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That would be great. Any idea of which is the best options and rough prices...even the old ones would be excellent. Is the travelcard the best option? What are the options?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ok thanks. How much would an annual ticket for Canary Wharf be and what is the best option?
 

bb21

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IIRC Bedford Stations (0410) - Stratford London (SRA/6969) Route +Any Permitted SDR is valid via HS1 and Stratford International (SFA/7222), hence a point-to-point season will cover that one. Not sure how it helps in this situation but I'll have a look when I get back home.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just had a quick look. It seems season tickets are not available on that route. So back to square 1.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK. Thought I couldn't resist it.

Bedford Stations - London Zones 1-6 £4620 for 12 months.

Tried a few splits and none of them work. The only thing I can find is

Bedford Stations - London Zones 2-6 £3796 for 12 months.

This limits you to changing at West Hampstead for the London Overground service to Stratford. You're not covered for travel in Zone 1 and cannot therefore go into central London, except on the bus. This is a much slower route so I'm not convinced that it would be suitable for commuting.

Beware that neither tickets above cover travel to Stratford International. Between Stratford London and International there is currently shuttle buses in operation and I'm not sure whether they check tickets and also how far it is to walk from the domestic station to your office if needed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Furthermore if you need an annual from 4th January, it might be better to buy an annual valid from 1st January before the price increase so that you pay this year's rate. The Zones 2-6 ticket is not much different at £3780, but the Zone 1-6 ticket, should you decide to have it, would have been £4240. The £380 saving can then be used to buy a couple of Anytime Day Travelcards at the tail end which are around £45 each.
 

stumpy

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Thanks for that. Looks like I will have to go for the Zone 1-6 then. Thanks also for the advice of getting it from 1st Jan...good thinking. I have just spoken to employer and I apparently only need to pay for one to get me to Canary Wharf and if further travel required they will do this!! If its just Canary Wharf I need is this still the best option?? Sorry to mess you about and thank you for all the useful info.
 

bb21

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As Canary Wharf is not a NR station, you'll do very well to beat the price of a travelcard.

The only thing I can think of is to buy an annual season between Bedford and Limehouse (£3820 / £3560 if starting on or before 1st January) and then pay for DLR Limehouse - Canary Wharf using Oyster Prepay (£1.40 Peak £1.30 Off-Peak Single). You get 34% off at off-peak times (hence 85p) with your Gold Card for the annual. This might work out cheaper depending on how many days you work and when you travel.

The only problem with this one is I'm not sure whether this season ticket is routed via West Hampstead too, hence subjecting you to slow trains? I'm sure someone more senior can confirm this for you as I don't have details to hand at the mo.

Speaking of prepay, another alternative is to buy a Bedford Stations - London Thameslink annual (£3780 / £3584 on or before 01/01). Prepay Zones 1-2 costs £2.50 Peak / £1.90 Off-Peak (£1.25 with GC discount). Should you travel via West Hampstead and London Overground sometime on your way back from Stratford, you can take advantage of the £1.40 Peak / 85p Off-Peak fare. Again depending on how many days you travel if might work out cheaper.
 

hairyhandedfool

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A geographic routeing on the ticket simply means you must pass through that place on your way from the origin to the destination or vice versa, it does not restrict you to services that stop there.

For example, if a Bedford-London Thameslink ticket was routed West Hampstead Thameslink it would be valid on EMT services from Bedford to St Pancras.
 

bb21

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I remember a few months back I had a query regarding tickets from Bedford, where Stratford International only had Route West Hampstead fare, yet Stratford London had both that one and Route +Any Permitted, allowing travel via St Pancras and HS1.

At the time I think most on here agreed that the Stratford International ticket only permitted travelling via London Overground as the mainline station is called West Hampstead Thameslink hence fast trains do not actually pass West Hampstead station. That's why I said what I said.
 

John @ home

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In routeing matters, where the name of a Group for Routeing Purposes is used, the journey must pass through at least one of the members of that Group. This is the List of Group Stations.

Thus a ticket routed Birmingham must pass through at least one of the members of Birmingham Group.

National Routeing Guide - List of Group Stations said:
Birmingham Group
ASTON
BIRMINGHAM MOOR STREET
BIRMINGHAM NEW STREET
BIRMINGHAM SNOW HILL
DUDDESTON

And a ticket routed West Hampstead must pass through at least one of the members of West Hampstead Group.

National Routeing Guide - List of Group Stations said:
West Hampstead Group
WEST HAMPSTEAD THAMESLINK
WEST HAMPSTEAD
 

bb21

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Thanks John, I didn't realise there's a West Hampstead Group. :smile:

Where does it leave the OP in this case with regard to the Bedford Stations - Limehouse ticket?

The season is not marked with a cross-London dagger, however London is a valid routeing point for Limehouse as it passes the fare check rule (the other being West Ham).

On the assumption that mainline fast trains satisfy the routeing condition, does this mean that this ticket is one of the exceptions where travel via central London is permitted even though there is no dagger marker?

Furthermore I have one question for myself. If all the above are correct, is the London Terminals - Limehouse section inter-available with LT, thereby allowing the OP to travel on DLR between Tower Gateway (or even Bank) and Limehouse?
 

W-on-Sea

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Furthermore I have one question for myself. If all the above are correct, is the London Terminals - Limehouse section inter-available with LT, thereby allowing the OP to travel on DLR between Tower Gateway (or even Bank) and Limehouse?

The only q I can answer is this final, short one. The answer is "yes", but from Tower Gateway to Limehouse only, not Bank.
 

John @ home

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Where does it leave the OP in this case with regard to the Bedford Stations - Limehouse ticket?
I have no idea why at 2010 prices a Bedford Stations - London Thameslink route Any Permitted season is based on a weekly ticket price of £89.60, while a Bedford Stations - Limehouse route West Hampstead season is based on a weekly ticket price of £89.00.

The anomaly is removed for 2011 when a Bedford Stations - London Thameslink route Any Permitted season is based on a weekly ticket price of £94.50, while a Bedford Stations - Limehouse route West Hampstead season is based on a weekly ticket price of £95.50.
The season is not marked with a cross-London dagger, however London is a valid routeing point for Limehouse as it passes the fare check rule (the other being West Ham).

On the assumption that mainline fast trains satisfy the routeing condition, does this mean that this ticket is one of the exceptions where travel via central London is permitted even though there is no dagger marker?
That would appear to be so.
 

bb21

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So it looks like that the cheapest option for the OP, should he not require a travelcard, is a Bedford Stations - Limehouse Route West Hampstead annual season starting on 1st January for £3560 which allows him to travel on the fast train from St Pancras to Tower Hill, then on DLR from Tower Gateway to Limehouse (or c2c from Fenchurch Street), where he has to change trains anyway, and touch in on Oyster Prepay all the way to Canary Wharf. The savings compared to a travelcard (£4240) of £680 can be used to pay quite a lot of £1.40 single journeys (or 85p off-peak) on the DLR.
 

yorkie

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If you do not have a dagger marker, LU staff will claim (whether right or not!) that the ticket is not valid and each time you wish to pass through a LU barrier, you may have to argue with them!!!

This is what ATOC say
National Routeing Guide said:
The via London, Maltese Cross symbol on a ticket signifies that the ticket
may be used via London Underground or Thameslink services. Unless a ticket
specifies that the journey must be made via London, passengers are free to
use an alternative ‘permitted route’ for their journey as provided by the
Routeing Guide.
In some instances (particularly long distance cross country journeys) the
Manual will show an "any permitted" fare but without the via London, Maltese
cross symbol
. Reference to Section C (the “yellow pages”) may show via
London to be a permitted route for this journey and in such instances travel
via London to include cross-London transfer would be permitted.

So the LU barrier drones are wrong!!

But, prepare for many arguments if you get such a ticket.

In 2006 a Grantham-Stroud ticket was routed Any Permitted without a dagger/maltese cross symbol, and yet was routed via London, and I had to argue at King's Cross until one of the barrier staff agreed with me and asked the other one to stop arguing with me. At Paddington I couldn't be bothered with another argument so I went directly between platforms avoiding barriers. GNER and FGW staff correctly accepted the ticket without question on outward and return journeys.

On another occasion I used a Not London ticket via London on a day when all Voyagers were taken out of service and passengers were instructed to go via London. I was challenged at the barrier by someone who was polite and admitted that they had not read their daily notices as they had just started their shift, and when I asked "have you not seen the news?" apologised and let me through.

No maltese cross doesn't automatically mean you are not valid via London but LU barrier staff are not really taught to think for themselves and are not given decent quality training and are instructed (or, "programmed"!) to refuse to accept them. This will likely result in an argument, which can only be won by being assertive and bringing documentary evidence supporting your case. (ie, not by being aggressive, but equally not by being passive either!)

I don't really blame the barrier staff, they are badly trained. That said, there are some very good ones who do use common sense and are much more familiar with ticketing than they are trained to be (e.g. Daniel!) but these are rare and won't stay in that job for long as they'll be on their way up through the ranks.
 

barrykas

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O-T for this thread I know, but it works both ways...

Had a passenger yesterday who had a ticket issued to one of our stations and now wanted to go to another one instead, on a different route.

No problem, says I, and I take a look at the ticket. It was an Advance ticket, issued with a route of Any Permitted(!) and no cross-London indicator, and at a fare that doesn't exist.

The worrying thing is that it had been issued by a major station...along with a paper reservation card, which they hadn't stamped.

Transpired that said passenger actually had a Senior Railcard, of which there was no mention on the ticket, so I ended up doing a zero fare excess to the new destination.

Oddly, said passenger had no issue with LU staff on her journey, despite the lack of Maltese Cross.

Conversely, I issued someone a ticket with a cross-London indicator, and the LU staff wouldn't let them through until I "had a word" with them! Good innit?

Cheers,

Barry
 
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