GWR at West Drayton station

[j_walker1804]

Hi everyone,
So this morning I was awaiting the 0353 service to Slough which on the screens was showing as departing from P1 (Down Fast) which isn’t unusual at night. The screens on P1 were showing the departure as expected.

At 0352 the train comes around the corner and the screens then show its departing from P3 (usual platform).

As expected, I wasn’t able to go down the stairs, through the underpass, up the stairs and across 3 lines to get the P3 in the minutes notice that they gave for the platform change and I now find myself in an Uber to get to my destination.

Apart from contacting GWR for a moan, does anyone know where I stand with a refund for the Uber fare?

Apologies if this is in the wrong part of the forum - please move it to the correct part.

Many thanks,
J

 

[Horizon22]

The train was on a different platform due to emergency engineering works so trains had to run on the Relief, not the Main lines as they usually do overnight. I am surprised this had not been shown in advance. This was probably an automatic berth "this is a platform alteration" instead of being amended in advance by a CIS operator.

I think it would be worth a comment to customer services as technically Delay Repay wouldn't apply. Where was the Uber too? West Drayton to Slough?

 

[j_walker1804]

The train was on a different platform due to emergency engineering works so trains had to run on the Relief, not the Main lines as they usually do overnight. I am surprised this had not been shown in advance. This was probably an automatic berth "this is a platform alteration" instead of being amended in advance by a CIS operator.

I think it would be worth a comment to customer services as technically Delay Repay wouldn't apply. Where was the Uber too? West Drayton to Slough?

Yes the screens were showing P1 on the screens in the underpass and also on P1 itself (as it was all unlocked and open)

Uber was West Drayton to Slough.
I’ve tweeted GWR and they’ve told me to contact MTR (whoever they are?)

 

[IanXC]

I’ve tweeted GWR and they’ve told me to contact MTR (whoever they are?)

MTR are the operators of the Crossrail concession, and the station operator at West Drayton.

 

[matt_world2004]

Did you get a refund on your ticket/oyster touch in.?

 

[Horizon22]

Yes the screens were showing P1 on the screens in the underpass and also on P1 itself (as it was all unlocked and open)

Uber was West Drayton to Slough.
I’ve tweeted GWR and they’ve told me to contact MTR (whoever they are?)

Yes West Drayton is operated by MTR (TfL Rail) now.

 

[j_walker1804]

Did you get a refund on your ticket/oyster touch in.?

I hold a season ticket for the journey.

 

[iphone76]

Not that you should have to, but you can use signal maps to track your train on the approach to the station. It should give you a bit more notice of any last minute platform changes. It seemed this service had a platform change after Hayes.

Signal Maps

View live signal maps for train lines across the UK

signalmaps.co.uk

 

[357]

Most regular users of the line have little to no confidence in some of the people who are responsible for updating the MTR screens...

 

[matt_world2004]

Surely it's GwRs control is responsible for ensuring the information for it's services is accurate on the Passenger information screens . The boards at stations pull the data from automated data sources . Which are provided by the toc running the trains. Unless the board failed completely I cannot see how it would be MTRs fault

 

[skyhigh]

Surely it's GwRs control is responsible for ensuring the information for it's services is accurate on the Passenger information screens . The boards at stations pull the data from automated data sources . Which are provided by the toc running the trains. Unless the board failed completely I cannot see how it would be MTRs fault

The screens are the responsibility of whoever manages the station, which in this case is MTR. I would be very surprised if GWR control could alter the screens of another operator.

 

[matt_world2004]

The screens are the responsibility of whoever manages the station, which in this case is MTR. I would be very surprised if GWR control could alter the screens of another operator.

They enter the service information however which the platform information screens pull their data from. The information isn't manually entered

 

[Horizon22]

They enter the service information however which the platform information screens pull their data from. The information isn't manually entered

As stated before the train was booked to be on those platforms but was altered. The information can be manually altered should there be a need to.

 

[JN114]

There is no facility for GWR Control to advertise on-the-day platform alterations at TfL (or other TOC) -managed stations.

 

[STINT47]

The best thing to do in futuer when at the station is access the relevant map on open train times. This would have shown that the train was using the relief line in advance.

I ver rarely look at departure screens any more as sites like these and similar provides more detailed and often more accurate earlier information than screens and sometimes even staff.

 

[357]

The best thing to do in futuer when at the station is access the relevant map on open train times. This would have shown that the train was using the relief line in advance.

I ver rarely look at departure screens any more as sites like these and similar provides more detailed and often more accurate earlier information than screens and sometimes even staff.

And this is exactly why so many regular passengers think of the railway in the way that they do.

I know many instances of a platform alteration only being announced when the train is in the platform berth, but it was physically impossible to access the booked platform on the booked line for the last 15 minutes.

It shouldn't be required for normal people to know how to use a train map in order to not miss their train...

 

[ChewChewTrain]

I find the “Train Times” app to be very quick to use when time is short. It says it uses the National Rail Enquiries API; would the platform change likely have been shown in good time in that?

 

[Horizon22]

And this is exactly why so many regular passengers think of the railway in the way that they do.

I know many instances of a platform alteration only being announced when the train is in the platform berth, but it was physically impossible to access the booked platform on the booked line for the last 15 minutes.

It shouldn't be required for normal people to know how to use a train map in order to not miss their train...

Indeed. The railway should do better that this and be more proactive. All this talk of using RTT or OpenTrainMaps is irrelevant - there is customer information at the station that should be doing the job.

As a railway colleague I am often infuriated by other colleagues that seem completely oblivious; such as the platform gates not open on a mainline platform due to a platform alteration and subsequent delays whilst people scramble across.

 

[357]

As a railway colleague I am often infuriated by other colleagues that seem completely oblivious; such as the platform gates not open on a mainline platform due to a platform alteration and subsequent delays whilst people scramble across.

That's if there are any staff there to open them...!

On the GEML they installed all these gates, then had to install handles and signs advising how to open them in case a train was diverted onto the mainline!

 

[IanXC]

As I understand it this information is specifically MTR Crossrail's responsibility, however as it was a GWR service, GWR did have the ability to amend the advertised platform number.

In a wider sense this is a case of the failings of ATOS. Their CIS system only amends a platform when the service in question arrives in the platform berth, whereas, for instance, KeTech's system alters the platform when the service has an ARS route set into the platform. This would likely have given sufficient warning for the OP to get to the amended platform and catch the train in question.

 

[CyrusWuff]

In a wider sense this is a case of the failings of ATOS. Their CIS system only amends a platform when the service in question arrives in the platform berth, whereas, for instance, KeTech's system alters the platform when the service has an ARS route set into the platform. This would likely have given sufficient warning for the OP to get to the amended platform and catch the train in question.

Regardless of the system in use, it should be possible to manually change the platform number. This does, of course, rely on there being a CIS operator on duty and them realising the need to intervene.

Of course, in an ideal world, the system would pick up such changes automatically, and cascade them down the line once the train passes the last point at which it could cross back to the booked platform.

 

[matt_world2004]

Regardless of the system in use, it should be possible to manually change the platform number. This does, of course, rely on there being a CIS operator on duty and them realising the need to intervene.

Of course, in an ideal world, the system would pick up such changes automatically, and cascade them down the line once the train passes the last point at which it could cross back to the booked platform.

Or for a csa to make a verbal announcement. I can't comment on West Drayton but they are usually prettily proactive at Hayes letting people know to move to an alternative platform when there is planned engineering works. This was unplanned though.

 

[JN114]

However as it was a GWR service, GWR did have the ability to amend the advertised platform number.

I will again, categorically state there is no facility for GWR to amend platforms at a non-GWR station.

Of course, in an ideal world, the system would pick up such changes automatically, and cascade them down the line once the train passes the last point at which it could cross back to the booked platform

There are 4 platforms at West Drayton a down train can use - 1, 3, 4 and 5.

While the point of no return for Platform 1 is several signal sections before the station; it can be any of 3/4/5 right up until immediately east of the station, so it is only ever going to switch at the last minute. It can’t go earlier because it wouldn’t know which of unbooked 3/4/5 to change to at the point it left the mains. It would be better if the system was tied to route setting as well, that would give more notice; but I don’t believe it is.

The only way the OP would have had more notice would have been if TfL Rail’s CIS operators made a manual change - given the mains were closed for emergency engineering work, affecting theirs and GWRs trains - it’s a bit poor IMO that they didn’t go through and change them all proactively given it was known trains couldn’t call at 1 - but I don’t know what their workload situation was so shouldn’t judge.

 

[matt_world2004]

I wonder if the station was staffed at 3:45 the only staff I have seen during night trains have been contractor security guards who definitely won't be making announcements or or changing cis.

 

[Horizon22]

Or for a csa to make a verbal announcement. I can't comment on West Drayton but they are usually prettily proactive at Hayes letting people know to move to an alternative platform when there is planned engineering works. This was unplanned though.

At 0400 in the morning? Also, at several locations, announcements won't be programmed to work at those hours (or at significantly reduced volumes), to prevent noise nuisance to the local area.

 

[Haywain]

announcements won't be programmed to work at those hours

Or, more to the point, will be programmed not to work.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Isn't the recent redesign of West Drayton station an important factor here? It probably would have been possible to get from Platform 1 to Platform 3 in the time available, before the recent changes (a quick nip through the underpass). TfL Rail have (I presume) decided to save costs by not extending the new bridge to Platform 1, meaning it is cut off from the rest of the station and it could now easily take 3-4 minutes (walking at a brisk pace!) to get from Platform 1 to Platform 3, whereas previously 30 seconds would have sufficed. It looks like some of the cost savings from not extending the new bridge to Platform 1 need to be reallocated to having additional staff to update screens and/or make announcements...

Edit: it would also be interesting to know at what point Tom Cairns' logic in RealTimeTrains predicted that the train would depart from platform 3; it could potentially be a great argument against the "one true source" theory regarding passenger information that is promulgated by National Rail Enquiries.

Edit 2: I see my second point has already been addressed by IanXC above, who pointed out a shortcoming of the Worldine information screen system.

 

[IanXC]

I will again, categorically state there is no facility for GWR to amend platforms at a non-GWR station.

The national agreements surrounding this data allow for a TOC to amend the platform number for any train which calls at a station they manage regardless of train operator, and any platform number for a train operated by the TOC at any location. It may be that the systems GWR staff have access to do not allow this, but that doesn't mean that GWR are prevented, as an organisation, from doing so.

 

[philthetube]

As I understand it this information is specifically MTR Crossrail's responsibility, however as it was a GWR service, GWR did have the ability to amend the advertised platform number.

In a wider sense this is a case of the failings of ATOS. Their CIS system only amends a platform when the service in question arrives in the platform berth, whereas, for instance, KeTech's system alters the platform when the service has an ARS route set into the platform. This would likely have given sufficient warning for the OP to get to the amended platform and catch the train in question.

Mtr Crossrail may be tasked to provide the information but it is GWR's responsibility to ensure that correct info is provided and to sort out the problems caused and then to get their pound of flesh from Crossrail.


the service was bought from GTR, they bear the responsibility to ensure that this is correctly provided.

 

[WesternLancer]

Did the OP's question about refund ever get resolved / answered?