Northern Rail services during strike

[radamfi]

Yes it does. Some of us are old enough to remember the disgraceful occurences around the Medway depots during the A.S.L.E & F. strikes of the early eighties with strikers hanging around school gates telling children that their daddies shouldn't be letting their colleagues down. Every branch produced it's "Loyal to ASLEF" badge, those that weren't wearing one were generally shunned and ostracised.
Peer pressure? You bet!

So there is still peer pressure in 2010? I would have thought that, given the very high salaries now paid to train drivers, that the industry would now attract a more middle class workforce. The sort of people who would otherwise be working in traditional graduate employment and would therefore have more of a conservative view on industrial relations.

 

[313103]

So there is still peer pressure in 2010? I would have thought that, given the very high salaries now paid to train drivers, that the industry would now attract a more middle class workforce. The sort of people who would otherwise be working in traditional graduate employment and would therefore have more of a conservative view on industrial relations.

Yes there is, some of our older Drivers remember the 82 dispute like it was yesterday. However you have mentioned something that may be true as well, where as the drivers use to attract people like me (someone who liked the job or had a interest in it, and from a working class background) the grade now attracts people like Bank Managers, Police Officers and Head Teachers. The kind of people who like to think they kind boss you around and who think there are in a far supperior postion then you are say as Guard, Shunter or Cleaners.

This has also meant that many of the new breed now openly attach their colours to the Blue flag in town. Despite the reteric that comes from Aslef hq.

The two main unions have each gone in a different direction, especially since privitisation this has been down possible changes in leadership of the two unions, the affects that privitisation has had on the grades that unions represent and as i have mentioned above the kind of people now employed in the driving grades.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Just to say thanks for spoiling travel plans of everybody utilising (or not) Northern Rail services 27 + 28 December

Merry Christmas (not)

Grow up also

 

[MCR247]

Why should he grow up tbf?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Last year as pointed out their was ONE additional bank holiday on the bank holiday Monday. East Side staff were recompensed by receiving 8 hours pay or their normal wages for the day, west side staff did not receive any payment and chose not to work the 27th December (Sunday), so whilst they did work the bank holiday they did not work the Sunday, that option (individual choice not industrial action) was not available this year due to no trains running today in any case.

This year as there are 2 extra bank holidays, East Side staff are only receiving pay for Christmas Day and not being recompensed for the Boxing Day substitute bank holiday (staff just being booked off on Sunday without pay) so there is the crux of the dispute on the East Side. West Side aren't receiving any extra pay for either substitute bank holiday and don't get the extra pay for Christmas Day / Boxing Day that the East Side do because of the terms and conditions . As a result of not being able to take action on a Sunday like last year, official action is being taken over the next two days

By the way I am a no voter but if other issues were included (i.e the profits not being spent on maintainence) then I could have been persuaded to vote Yes but that wasnt the issue on the table

I personally voted yes (in my mind about 55%-45%) if the Northern Management had at least tried to be fair to its staff they would have started regaining the respect they have lost over the years, sadly they didnt and there is no respect now from the Guards towards "higher" management, the majority feel let down again by them
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why should he grow up tbf?

if he thinks that guards like myself want to lose a few hundred quid on a whim, I am so sorry, we are just fighting for are t&c's, maybe not important to him, but important to us (and yes I know people will disagree/agree but as its all been said a few times now i'm not going to go get into it again)

 

[MCR247]

if he thinks that guards like myself want to lose a few hundred quid on a whim, I am so sorry, we are just fighting for are t&c's, maybe not important to him, but important to us (and yes I know people will disagree/agree but as its all been said a few times now i'm not going to go get into it again)

Ok, its important to him. But any journeys he wished to make are down the pan.

So to you, his post may seem selfish, but so is your reply.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Ok, its important to him. But any journeys he wished to make are down the pan.

So to you, his post may seem selfish, but so is your reply.

I do respect the fact that he may be put out, however there are some services running and I am sure there are other methods of transport as it is only Northern services that are affected.

 

[GB]

So to you, his post may seem selfish, but so is your reply.

Its more the childish sarcasm of his reply personally.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I just copied this from another forums (my apologies) but this person has summed up the feelings of a lot of Guards (ex FNW side anyway) so please read it, it sums up things so much better than I can..

Mm - for those on here wishing to find out more about this dispute (& the particular reason as to why a strike has been called), I would suggest looking in on Northern Railways forum, where the subject matter has been dissected in the minutest detail.
However, in so much as Northern Rail would have the world see this otherwise, this culmination in a YES vote for strike action has been brewing up for a VERY long time - industrial relations are totally & utterly abysmal - in particular, in the completely forgotten ex FNW bits of Northern Rail (have they forgotten that we do actually exist, I really do wonder).
Whilst drawing a discreet veil over the not-inconsiderable (& ever widening) pay gap between guards & drivers, our terms & conditions of employment have taken a battering with this management - hardly surprising, since the dear departed Heidi Mottram's opening gambit was "Why do we have guards " (Heidi, of course, now having jumped ship, along with a good number of her cronies).
For the record, guards at Northern are NOT allowed to fail units for any reason - that is down to the driver. We are not entitled to heating, either in the cab, or throughout the passenger accommodation - if Control decree that a unit enters/remains in service, it does precisely that, no matter what mechanical or inernal decrepitude it might be in.
We are not entitled to ticketing machinery that is fit for purpose - matters on Advantix/Dione equipment have been very well known to Northern mamagement for a very long time, now - when a recently retired Sportis point operator was striving to get spare parts for these techno monstrosities nearly FIVE years ago, he was pointedly refused, due to "financial cost to the company" - ticket machine failures are now reaching crisis levels in many areas (&, of course, guards have been losing hefty sums of commission in the process - we do NOT get anything from the company when the machine decided to have a hissy fit within minutes of being switched on, & on-train ticket sales are nil).
When peaktime services are constantly being short-formed, we are simply told to do our best - quite what that means when up to 500+ passengers are striving to board a single class 142, I just give up, quite honestly. We are NOT allowed "not to stop" orders at Sal Central & the like, due to "financial cost to the company" - we just have to tough it out, & take all of the passenger frustration, anger & abuse, on behalf of Northern management.
We also now have 9-10 hour dockets in abundance, with the absolute bare minimum break - we have delivered massive savings (ie profit) to Northern in this one respect alone, but there is NO recognition whatsoever for this.
In conclusion, guards at Northern Rail have been made to look like complete buffoons, & are very much seen as the village idiot by many passengers (which is why verbal & physical assaults are rocketing), given that we are the public face of Northern Rail - indeed, the ONLY face, as senior management is in perpetual hiding.
So, we had a ballot for strike action, & 361 of us decided to call time on this bunch of dodgy fairground operators - personally, I do not care for strikes, & I have never been on strike in my life (despite all the ills that we hear of British Rail, true or otherwise), but there does come a point in one's life when one has no other option but to stand up & be counted for what is right.

http://www.railchat.co.uk/phpBB2/vie...hp?f=4&t=23869

To the Poster, you have said whats on a hell of alot of peoples minds m8

 

[bradders1983]

I do respect the fact that he may be put out, however there are some services running and I am sure there are other methods of transport as it is only Northern services that are affected.

If he lives in a place like Chathill or Kiveton Park, what alternative train service do you suggest?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

If he lives in a place like Chathill or Kiveton Park, what alternative train service do you suggest?

Maybe a bus?

 

[bradders1983]

Maybe a bus?

Fair enough. Although he is entitled to be peeved.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Fair enough. Although he is entitled to be peeved.

Hated to sound sarcy but I really couldn't think of a better answer, sometimes things have to happen, for the reasons why I suggest you read the post I copied and pasted from another forum as i Said in it I couldnt put it better myself

 

[Max]

Maybe a bus?

Pretty sure no buses run to Laxton. I guess those people will just have to walk to work...

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Try as I might I cannot find any buses Holmes Chapel to Alderley Edge..

Why can NR not at least run replacement buses on the 'striking' routes (say hourly )

 

[northwichcat]

Try as I might I cannot find any buses Holmes Chapel to Alderley Edge..

Why can NR not at least run replacement buses on the 'striking' routes (say hourly )

Nik

There's very few Sunday/Bank Holiday bus routes in Cheshire. Even a town like Knutsford is 10 miles from the nearest public transport with the trains not running.

I really think Northern should have taken what bus routes are operating in to consideration before deciding what services to run. Buxton-New Mills, Buxton-Macclesfield and Stepping Hill (Woodsmoor)-Hazel Grove-Stockport-Manchester are bus routes with bank holiday services, so very few people on the Buxton line would have been cut off if no train service had been provided, yet Northern are providing a limited service on this line but not on Crewe-Manchester or Chester-Altrincham-Manchester.

 

[350401]

I'm not going to wade into the rights and wrongs of the Strike Action, but I do think that Northerns management of the few services that are running leaves a fair bit to be desired in the North West Region.

Eg.1. The decision to run trains from Manchester Airport to Manchester via all stops - MIA-MCR direct is covered by TPE and every other stop is covered by local buses (Heald Green has the 43, Gatley the 130, East Didsbury and Burnage the 42/142 etc). Instead they should of run that unit from Crewe to Manchester, serving Sandbach, Holmes Chapel, Goostrey, Chelford, Alderley Edge - all areas that have NO service. They probably expect to make more holiday shopping profit on the Airport Line, and so left the rural areas in the lurch.

Eg. 2 - as mentioned by JCollins - running to Hazel Grove/Buxton - these are covered by the 192 bus and the Transpeak Coach. Instead run that unit to say, Northwich at least, and provide Northwich and Knutsford with a holiday shopping service. Surely ticket sales on that line would be pretty good today?

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the Strike, Northern should of planned its contingency services in a way that gives as many areas as possible SOME public transport, rather than focus on routes that are profitable but already have alternative public transit available. Perhaps I'm being naive in this era of privatised railways though.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

just had an email (companywide) from the chief operating officer congratulating staff who have come in today, good on the staff who came because now wether anyone agrees with it or not (personally I don't) but they will become the most unpopular people in messrooms for a long long time UNLESS they wasn't in the union in the 1st place ( I have stated that I do hate the use of Scab and I respect the decision of other people)

 

[Failed Unit]

It is typical across all TOCs that the routes that have no alternatives don't get the buses. If you look at the recent Scotrail strike the profitable routes got a full service. The rural routes got nothing. The irony in that case was it was the routes with nothing to do with the dispute that suffered the most. Northern take the view you could offer buses and get no revenue because it is not collected or do nothing. No revenue again but at least you are not paying for buses. As for customers this is the railway - passengers are an operation inconvience on the railway.

 

[northwichcat]

It is typical across all TOCs that the routes that have no alternatives don't get the buses. If you look at the recent Scotrail strike the profitable routes got a full service. The rural routes got nothing.

If you look at passenger flows in the North West during school holidays it isn't usually the routes with highest commuter flows that get highest holiday traffic and yet Northern have picked the routes with highest commuter flows to get strike day services.

I think some of the managers acting as conductors would have had a shock if they had worked the Manchester-Chester via Altrincham line as conductors can quite easily take a few hundred pounds per run, in addition to what's taken at booking offices, on Saturdays and during school holidays.

On the Yorkshire side Northern are running an hourly Leeds-Sheffield service calling at Meadowhall, Barnsley and Wakefield only. This probably makes the least sense of them all, as XC run Leeds-Sheffield calling at Wakefield and TPE and Supertram run Meadowhall-Sheffield, so it seems a whole service is run for the benefit of a medium sized town in Barnsley.

 

[Failed Unit]

On the Scotrail strike the makeshift gaurds could open the doors and that was it. There was no revenue protection other than station barriers during the strike. I am not sure if that is the same for northern but I suspect the managers will not be selling tickets. So in effect northern will run trains for free (or at least that's what scotrail did)

 

[Donny Dave]

I just copied this from another forums (my apologies) but this person has summed up the feelings of a lot of Guards (ex FNW side anyway) so please read it, it sums up things so much better than I can..

Mm - for those on here wishing to find out more about this dispute (& the particular reason as to why a strike has been called), I would suggest looking in on Northern Railways forum, where the subject matter has been dissected in the minutest detail.
However, in so much as Northern Rail would have the world see this otherwise, this culmination in a YES vote for strike action has been brewing up for a VERY long time - industrial relations are totally & utterly abysmal - in particular, in the completely forgotten ex FNW bits of Northern Rail (have they forgotten that we do actually exist, I really do wonder).
Whilst drawing a discreet veil over the not-inconsiderable (& ever widening) pay gap between guards & drivers, our terms & conditions of employment have taken a battering with this management - hardly surprising, since the dear departed Heidi Mottram's opening gambit was "Why do we have guards " (Heidi, of course, now having jumped ship, along with a good number of her cronies).
For the record, guards at Northern are NOT allowed to fail units for any reason - that is down to the driver. We are not entitled to heating, either in the cab, or throughout the passenger accommodation - if Control decree that a unit enters/remains in service, it does precisely that, no matter what mechanical or inernal decrepitude it might be in.
We are not entitled to ticketing machinery that is fit for purpose - matters on Advantix/Dione equipment have been very well known to Northern mamagement for a very long time, now - when a recently retired Sportis point operator was striving to get spare parts for these techno monstrosities nearly FIVE years ago, he was pointedly refused, due to "financial cost to the company" - ticket machine failures are now reaching crisis levels in many areas (&, of course, guards have been losing hefty sums of commission in the process - we do NOT get anything from the company when the machine decided to have a hissy fit within minutes of being switched on, & on-train ticket sales are nil).
When peaktime services are constantly being short-formed, we are simply told to do our best - quite what that means when up to 500+ passengers are striving to board a single class 142, I just give up, quite honestly. We are NOT allowed "not to stop" orders at Sal Central & the like, due to "financial cost to the company" - we just have to tough it out, & take all of the passenger frustration, anger & abuse, on behalf of Northern management.
We also now have 9-10 hour dockets in abundance, with the absolute bare minimum break - we have delivered massive savings (ie profit) to Northern in this one respect alone, but there is NO recognition whatsoever for this.
In conclusion, guards at Northern Rail have been made to look like complete buffoons, & are very much seen as the village idiot by many passengers (which is why verbal & physical assaults are rocketing), given that we are the public face of Northern Rail - indeed, the ONLY face, as senior management is in perpetual hiding.
So, we had a ballot for strike action, & 361 of us decided to call time on this bunch of dodgy fairground operators - personally, I do not care for strikes, & I have never been on strike in my life (despite all the ills that we hear of British Rail, true or otherwise), but there does come a point in one's life when one has no other option but to stand up & be counted for what is right.

http://www.railchat.co.uk/phpBB2/vie...hp?f=4&t=23869

To the Poster, you have said whats on a hell of alot of peoples minds m8

I'm deliberately ignoring the reasons for the strike here, instead I'm going to ask 1 question.

Out of the 976 members balloted, does 361 yes votes constitute a majority?

The result of the ballot was that of the 976 conductors who are members of RMT, 361 voted for strike action, 240 voted against strike action and 375 abstained

http://www.wnxxforum.com/interactive/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16118

 

[CarterUSM]

On the Scotrail strike the makeshift gaurds could open the doors and that was it.

Well they only got 5 days training.............

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I'm deliberately ignoring the reasons for the strike here, instead I'm going to ask 1 question.

Out of the 976 members balloted, does 361 yes votes constitute a majority?


if people cannot be bothered to vote or abstain then the votes that have been placed count (obviously) so yes, it cannot be argued any other way, if the people who didnt vote felt so strongly for/against then they should have voted...simple

 

[PR1Berske]

"We are not allowed heating...."


Well neither are passengers, ffs.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

"We are not allowed heating...."


Well neither are passengers, ffs.

and when we tell our beloved control, that they don't give a s**t so don't lay that on us, in your place of work (unless outside) do you have heating??? if that heating did not work at -5 temps would you be happy??? of course you would!

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm deliberately ignoring the reasons for the strike here, instead I'm going to ask 1 question.

Out of the 976 members balloted, does 361 yes votes constitute a majority?


if people cannot be bothered to vote or abstain then the votes that have been placed count (obviously) so yes, it cannot be argued any other way, if the people who didnt vote felt so strongly for/against then they should have voted...simple

To add to this - that is how democracy works! When was the last time in the uk that a winning party had more the 50% of the eligible vote cast for them? It is rare they even get 50% of the people that turned out to the polling station.

 

[ivanhoe]

I'm deliberately ignoring the reasons for the strike here, instead I'm going to ask 1 question.

Out of the 976 members balloted, does 361 yes votes constitute a majority?


if people cannot be bothered to vote or abstain then the votes that have been placed count (obviously) so yes, it cannot be argued any other way, if the people who didnt vote felt so strongly for/against then they should have voted...simple

There were more yes votes than no votes. Those who don't vote have no say. That's democracy .

 

[Chapeltom]

I'm never usually a fan of strikes as I think its selfish behaviour BUT this one takes an exception. Yes I may have had to use the train today and it has affected my plans but I can fully sympathise with Northern guards and a simply lack of power. There has been many a time I've seen passengers shout at guards, A) Because the train is full and can't get on (try being on 2 car services into Manchester on a Saturday morn/early afternoon) B) Fare increases, yes I've seen people shout at guards because of the price going up.

I remember getting on a train at Walkden and needed to get a 1pm service to Salford Crescent and the 142 that rolled into the station was heaving and only 3 out of about 15 people on the platform could get on. A passenger who couldn't get on had a go and said something roughly along the lines of "This is every ******* week, can't get on these ******* trains! Get it sorted". As he shut the doors the guard shook his head and said something like "We can't do anything, contact head office, management's problem, not ours".

Personally Northern Rail services are a bit of a novelty as I only usually use them for short trips under 50 miles. I don't mind them being late, if I can get a TransPennine Express service I will, when a train is 10-15 minutes late it doesn't really make a difference to my plans.

I hope this all gets sorted.

 

[tbtc]

One problem during the strike is that trains are still at "normal" lengths, when they could be doubled up units to cope with the demand (as there are obviously a lot of units "Spare").

Does the Union represent all 976 Guards, or are there more Guards who aren't Union members?