Trains departing with doors wide open

[LowLevel]

Mk3 doors were very problematic if they came open. The reason the mk3 van doors on HST TGS coaches had the little extension bit bolted shut was because one came open one day leaving St Pancras and smashed itself to bits on a 319.

 

[The exile]

Possibly rather low down on the list of H&S risks people had to face at that location / date , before or indeed after May 1945

Open doors on moving trains was a sight on the Berlin S-Bahn until the original electric stock was withdrawn in the late 90s

 

[Bletchleyite]

Mk3 doors were very problematic if they came open. The reason the mk3 van doors on HST TGS coaches had the little extension bit bolted shut was because one came open one day leaving St Pancras and smashed itself to bits on a 319.

One of the many reasons the UK should not have given up on the RIC style folding doors on the XP64 sets and pursued making them work. One of the many excellent design aspects of this sort of door is that when open it is not sticking out sufficiently to whack anything.

Quite a number of people died, and a lot of vehicles were damaged, due to BR not doing something that close to everyone else was successfully doing at the time.

 

[davetheguard]

Quite a number of people died, and a lot of vehicles were damaged, due to BR not doing something that close to everyone else was successfully doing at the time.

You are completely right, and I've experienced a couple of these incidents myself - fortunately with nobody getting hurt.

The one upside of the problem was perhaps B.R.s invention of the highly successful plug door, as used on class 158 DMUs and elsewhere.

 

[mrredrunner100]

This still happens all over eastern europe! I find it quite exciting! First saw it in Romania a few years back

 

[StephenHunter]

I have video evidence of a guard standing at an open door during the pull out (he closed it a few seconds later) of the Moscow-Paris sleeper at Berlin Hbf in 2016.

 

[BRX]

I travelled on some trains in albania about 10 years ago... you were lucky if they had any doors on them at all.

 

[LowLevel]

I have video evidence of a guard standing at an open door during the pull out (he closed it a few seconds later) of the Moscow-Paris sleeper at Berlin Hbf in 2016.

That was standard in the UK, indeed various multiple unit trains were designed so that the guard could lean out of the open cab/local door as the train departed.

The authorities had a hissy fit a few years ago and declared absolutely definitely not and banned it but 313s, 455s etc all had this capability.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have video evidence of a guard standing at an open door during the pull out (he closed it a few seconds later) of the Moscow-Paris sleeper at Berlin Hbf in 2016.

This is totally normal on European trains. The guard watches the train out of the platform via the open door then closes it.

 

[contrex]

This is totally normal on European trains. The guard watches the train out of the platform via the open door then closes it.

Normal on slam-door stock too in the UK in my experience. I used to see guards signal a driver away from the platform and then nimbly enter the brake compartment as the train started to move, watching the train out of the platform through the open doorway or else the window.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Normal on slam-door stock too in the UK in my experience. I used to see guards signal a driver away from the platform and then nimbly enter the brake compartment as the train started to move, watching the train out of the platform through the open doorway or else the window.

It was done on Merseyrail until fairly recently and on 150/1s which had the manual door - the change was I believe because of an incident of a FNW guard and former regular poster to uk.railway falling from a Class 150 from the crew door which led to the rule that they must be closed before departure.

That change had upsides and downsides - clearly the crew were safer, but on non-droplighted stock at stations without dispatchers it means the train is now not watched out of the platform at all, so if an incident happens once the wheels start turning there is nobody to stop it.

 

[Strathclyder]

That was standard in the UK, indeed various multiple unit trains were designed so that the guard could lean out of the open cab/local door as the train departed.

Indeed. Was also standard practice on the Tube until OMO/DOO units were gradually rolled out across the network. The last Tube stock to operate with guards was the 1959 stock on the Northern Line in January 2000 (more details here and here).

High quality footage of 1962 stock on the Central Line dating from 1992 (courtesy of video125co) showing both the guards leaning out the appropriate door as the train departs (notably at Bank in the first two clips & Stratford at 9:32) and the doors opening before the train has come to a complete halt (at Loughton at 8:20).

 

[LowLevel]

It was done on Merseyrail until fairly recently and on 150/1s which had the manual door - the change was I believe because of an incident of a FNW guard and former regular poster to uk.railway falling from a Class 150 from the crew door which led to the rule that they must be closed before departure.

That change had upsides and downsides - clearly the crew were safer, but on non-droplighted stock at stations without dispatchers it means the train is now not watched out of the platform at all, so if an incident happens once the wheels start turning there is nobody to stop it.

If it was the incident at Leyland the practice had been moved away from some time before that, and he also fell out of the other side of the train to the platform, I believe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it was the incident at Leyland the practice had been moved away from some time before that

Not on Merseyrail - it may even have persisted beyond that incident. It was a bit of an outlier, though.

and he also fell out of the other side of the train to the platform, I believe.

I thought it was on open line, but yes, it wasn't onto a platform.

 

[Pinza-C55]

When DOO was introduced on suburban trains out of Kings Cross one of the drivers opened the doors on the wrong side at Harringay station, next to the 125 mph main line. It was oure chance that no main line train was passing.

 

[citycat]

In 1972 when I was 12 years old, I was returning with my parents from our summer holiday in the South of France via the day service from Nice to Paris, and then the Night Ferry from Paris Nord to London Victoria in the seating section of the boat train.

When the train arrived at Dunkirk Ville, I stepped onto the platform for some fresh air while my parents were dozing in the compartment. I thought that it would take longer to exchange the train engine for the shunting loco that would take us to the ferry, but without any warning signal, the train suddenly started to depart and I had to run for the open doorway (the door opened inwards) and jumped back on as it slowly pulled out of the station.

As there was no one around to tell me otherwise, I decided to keep the door open and stand on the top step and hold onto the hand rail tightly. It was exciting to stand at the open doorway as the train went at walking pace for around 30 mins from Dunkirk Ville to the Maritime station where the train ferry was waiting. The train snaked through the dark docks in the early hours of the morning, making that unique singing sound in the rails which echoed off the dark warehouses, and the beam of a lighthouse would sweep around every few seconds.

It was dangerous standing on the top step but also so exciting to a 12 year old boy. Leaning out as the train snaked around, I could see the dark blue CIWL sleeping cars at the front of the consist.

There was always that danger that I may have fallen out but I held on tight, and as I say, the train was at walking pace behind the shunting loco. The memory of that short journey through Dunkirk docks has stayed with me all these years, but I am sure my parents would’ve been quite angry if they knew their only son was standing in an open doorway of a moving train.

 

[etr221]

I remember - back in the 1980s (communist days) - riding a Polish 'corridor' train through a corner of the USSR (i.e. passengers did not go through formalities to enter the USSR). But we did pick up an escort of Soviet border guards: apart from those on the loco, for the coaches there was a smartly uniformed officer (who did come through to look at passports), and five men in coveralls: four rode (standing) in the (open) doorways at front and rear on each side, to observe and check nobody jumped off. And my quip was the that the fifth was a spare in case one of them fell off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I remember - back in the 1980s (communist days) - riding a Polish 'corridor' train through a corner of the USSR (i.e. passengers did not go through formalities to enter the USSR). But we did pick up an escort of Soviet border guards: apart from those on the loco, for the coaches there was a smartly uniformed officer (who did come through to look at passports), and five men in coveralls: four rode (standing) in the (open) doorways at front and rear on each side, to observe and check nobody jumped off. And my quip was the that the fifth was a spare in case one of them fell off.

Quite possibly in case someone pushed them off in order to exit.

 

[Calthrop]

I remember - back in the 1980s (communist days) - riding a Polish 'corridor' train through a corner of the USSR (i.e. passengers did not go through formalities to enter the USSR). But we did pick up an escort of Soviet border guards: apart from those on the loco, for the coaches there was a smartly uniformed officer (who did come through to look at passports), and five men in coveralls: four rode (standing) in the (open) doorways at front and rear on each side, to observe and check nobody jumped off. And my quip was the that the fifth was a spare in case one of them fell off.

Would this have been the run between Zagorz and Przemysl -- passing through a corner of the Ukraine, via the town now called Chyriv? I made that journey in 1984, hauled by a PKP class Ty2 "Kriegslok" 2-10-0; admit to not having noticed the open coach doorways (wouldn't it have made more sense to have them closed? -- but in that particular sector of the world at that time, making sense was not a widely-observable priority). When I did that run, it was a beautiful summer's morning; and all concerned, seemed -- in the admittedly rather horrible overall context -- quite good-humoured and relaxed. I recall that the border guards seemed appearance-wise, of an average age of about twelve; entertained hopes that they played fair, and properly took turns as to who would get to ride on the loco . Nobody checked my passport / identity, or seemed to take the slightest interest in maybe-standing-out-like-a-sore-thumb me. I wasn't so foolish as to produce a camera: my experience such as it was in communist Europe, was that that was the sole trigger which sent the "guardians of order" berserk -- otherwise one could take notes, consult maps, and do what one pleased -- nobody batted an eyelid.