Class 365 scrap movements + preservation discussion

[DanNCL]

Will it be fitted with third rail gear, or be restricted as far as Drayton Park?

If it was just shoe gear that was the problem, they might have found more use. It seems unlikely that 365525 needs to go south of Drayton Park.

https://railforums.co.uk/threads/go...of-class-365-fleet.189660/page-2#post-4173799

Yes there is zero point in sending a 365 to Moorgate... For starters, forgetting the lack of DC, they're probably not cleared.

Its way more likely they'd use a 717 to test it all!

Or that 313 test unit they already have for initial tests? Presumably the 717 fleet came with ETCS fitted as new?.

365s even if fitted with third rail pickup shoes are not and could not be cleared to Moorgate. Operating south of Drayton Park requires a cab end door for evacuation - the only stock cleared to Moorgate without are 73s (combination of being built to Hastings loading gauge and having inward opening cab doors makes side evacuation possible on those) and even they’re only permitted under limited circumstances.

ETCS testing to Moorgate can be done with 717s, and with 313121 if required.

 

[D365]

I would imagine that when they sent 525 for trial fit, the class still had a future.

In 2015, it definitely would have done!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2021 ==

365s even if fitted with third rail pickup shoes are not and could not be cleared to Moorgate. Operating south of Drayton Park requires a cab end door for evacuation - the only stock cleared to Moorgate without are 73s (combination of being built to Hastings loading gauge and having inward opening cab doors makes side evacuation possible on those) and even they’re only permitted under limited circumstances.

ETCS testing to Moorgate can be done with 717s, and with 313121 if required.

FYI - I've created a dedicated thread for any 717-specific ETCS discussion

 

[Wyrleybart]

I would imagine that when they sent 525 for trial fit, the class still had a future.

AIUI Network Rail have to shell out for the ETCS kit in trains expected to run on line fitted with the new equipment. Therefore a class leader is selected by the owner or operator to undergo the trial fitment of the kit. In this case I reckon Network Rail have funded the fitment to 365525 via the Rosco.

The DRS locos moved to Bo ness are the diesel equivalents - a 0/3 and a 37/6.

Think I read somewhere that Network Rail have ordered in excess of 700 sets of ECTS equipment for instaliing in locos like 60 66 67 70 73 90 and 92

 

[D365]

AIUI Network Rail have to shell out for the ETCS kit in trains expected to run on line fitted with the new equipment. Therefore a class leader is selected by the owner or operator to undergo the trial fitment of the kit. In this case I reckon Network Rail have funded the fitment to 365525 via the Rosco.

The DRS locos moved to Bo ness are the diesel equivalents - a 0/3 and a 37/6.

Think I read somewhere that Network Rail have ordered in excess of 700 sets of ECTS equipment for instaliing in locos like 60 66 67 70 73 90 and 92

Freight fitments are entirely different - the locos you’ve listed are being fitted under a Siemens-led programme which also includes Class 20, 37, 47, 56, 57, 86 and 325. The 365 contract is led by Eversholt using Alstom kit with ESG as the engineering specialists.

 

[3973EXL]

STP 06/01 Caped

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0531 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)

STP 07/01
5Q76 dep 0519
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0531 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)

 

[warwickshire]

STP 06/01 Caped

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0531 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)

STP 07/01

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0531 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)

Move cancelled. Locomotive now already on way back to derby at 0723 hours Thursday 06th January 2022.
These Belmont yard moves recently again appear to get cancelled at the Last minute maybe still issues at Newport Simms with scrap processing like before xmas?. Or maybe covid affecting things?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2022 ==

STP 06/01 Caped

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0531 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)

STP 07/01
5Q76 dep 0519
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0531 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)

What is being moved to Newport Simms please ie the unit numbers.
Thanking you.

 

[ls2270]

Move cancelled. Locomotive now already on way back to derby at 0723 hours Thursday 06th January 2022.
These Belmont yard moves recently again appear to get cancelled at the Last minute maybe still issues at Newport Simms with scrap processing like before xmas?. Or maybe covid affecting things?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2022 ==


What is being moved to Newport Simms please ie the unit numbers.
Thanking you.

It’s 57312 hauling 365514 and 365534.

 

[warwickshire]

It’s 57312 hauling 365514 and 365534.

Thanking you so much

 

[warwickshire]

Move cancelled. Locomotive now already on way back to derby at 0723 hours Thursday 06th January 2022.
These Belmont yard moves recently again appear to get cancelled at the Last minute maybe still issues at Newport Simms with scrap processing like before xmas?. Or maybe covid affecting things?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2022 ==


What is being moved to Newport Simms please ie the unit numbers.
Thanking you.

Good morning from pangbourne .
57312 with 365514 365534 to Newport Simms Docks for scrap.
Thank you all for the advance information. Again not ideal and sad to see.

 

[365 Networker]

365534 to Newport Simms Docks for scrap.

That was the last 365 I went on before they were withdrawn. Very sad.

 

[YSTrains]

That was the last 365 I went on before they were withdrawn. Very sad.

On 3rd May, I went to King's Cross to see a 365 in its final weeks of operations. Unit 534 and 504 were there. I took photos inside unit 534. 534 is my special unit. Never to be seen again.

 

[warwickshire]

That was the last 365 I went on before they were withdrawn. Very sad.

Same here leading from kings cross to Peterborough first Friday back in may last year with 365502.

 

[YSTrains]

I would like to ask, were all 21 units withdrawn in one go or was it a process?

 

[D365]

I would like to ask, were all 21 units withdrawn in one go or was it a process?

They were stood down gradually during the first half of 2021.

 

[3973EXL]

STP 11/01
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0531 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)

(Loco move 10/01 Realtime Trains - 087G 0947 Derby R.T.C.(Network Rail) to Belmont Down Yard)

STP 13/01
Realtime Trains - FRGT 0531 Belmont Down Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup)

 

[brad465]

This picture from Facebook is apparently 365515 being cut up at Booths:



Two things caught my eye in this: firstly, the old interior door buttons can be made out still attached without the doors. Second, the bodyshell on the right of this photo looks like an old 373? (EDIT: Someone has said this is actually a 365 bit but upside down)

 

[YSTrains]

This picture from Facebook is apparently 365515 being cut up at Booths:

View attachment 108541

Two things caught my eye in this: firstly, the old interior door buttons can be made out still attached without the doors. Second, the bodyshell on the right of this photo looks like an old 373? (EDIT: Someone has said this is actually a 365 bit but upside down)

What will happen to the traction motors?

 

[brad465]

What will happen to the traction motors?

Other than not sounding again (apart from in immortalised audio film of them), who knows.

 

[D365]

What will happen to the traction motors?

Why the interest in the motors specifically?

 

[DustyBin]

Why the interest in the motors specifically?

Wanting to modify his Tesla presumably.

 

[D365]

Wanting to modify his Tesla presumably.

That just needs a custom "motor" sound!

 

[John Jarman]

I spent 15 years working on class 365s at Hornsey. I am really really sad to see them go, such good units and such a shame as they were really really reliable.
To think all of the mods that have been carried out in recent times, this really really is a waste of money.
I'd guess class 387s are better trains but do not have the character that the class 365s had. Such a shame!

 

[bramling]

I spent 15 years working on class 365s at Hornsey. I am really really sad to see them go, such good units and such a shame as they were really really reliable.
To think all of the mods that have been carried out in recent times, this really really is a waste of money.
I'd guess class 387s are better trains but do not have the character that the class 365s had. Such a shame!

Yes you’re certainly not alone. I’ve used them pretty much daily from start to finish, never had one fail to the point of the journey having to be terminated - which is more than can be said for a small handful of years of sporadic use on their replacements. One defective speedometer (able to be fixed by a fitter), a few reboots and a couple of times doors having to be given a kick to close is not a bad record considering the mileage I’ve travelled on them.

Many million pounds of all our money being quite literally burned away there, thanks to the DFT’s bull-in-china-shop franchising “strategy” of recent years.

A mundane train in many ways, but one where the designers managed to get a lot of things very right. The only downside was their rather unfortunate refurbishment in the 2010s, but even in their “dumbed down” state they were still pretty decent.

My annual car mileage has increased considerably as a result.

 

[John Jarman]

Yes you’re certainly not alone. I’ve used them pretty much daily from start to finish, never had one fail to the point of the journey having to be terminated - which is more than can be said for a small handful of years of sporadic use on their replacements. One defective speedometer (able to be fixed by a fitter), a few reboots and a couple of times doors having to be given a kick to close is not a bad record considering the mileage I’ve travelled on them.

Many million pounds of all our money being quite literally burned away there, thanks to the DFT’s bull-in-china-shop franchising “strategy” of recent years.

A mundane train in many ways, but one where the designers managed to get a lot of things very right. The only downside was their rather unfortunate refurbishment in the 2010s, but even in their “dumbed down” state they were still pretty decent.

My annual car mileage has increased considerably as a result.

Yes you're quite right in all areas and particular the referb. In my humble opinion they looked far better in NSE colours and the interiors lost their homely feel when the carpets were replaced for lino.

On the positive side the doors had their much needed overhaul and I led a team to carry this work out and I was very proud how successful this was and the prof was in the pudding with the increased performance from the door systems. I found a surplus door actuator that was destined for the skip that I now proudly keep above my workbench in the garage as a little memento of the happy times. Does anyone know whether any parts are being salvaged?

 

[YSTrains]

Can anyone tell what units are being sent for scrap today?

 

[Magdalia]

I spent 15 years working on class 365s at Hornsey. I am really really sad to see them go, such good units and such a shame as they were really really reliable.
To think all of the mods that have been carried out in recent times, this really really is a waste of money.

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for all of the efforts of you and your colleagues with the Hornsey fleet. As a regular user of Kings Cross services I've long held a high regard for Hornsey's work, especially their ability to turn out 38 of 40 class 365s for the weekday peaks on such a consistent basis.

One thing has puzzled me for a long time, and I think it is the main reason for the early withdrawal of the class 365s. Why was there never a mid life renewal of the traction package, like on the class 465s? I heard more than once that the class 365s ran on Windows 95, but never knew whether it was literally true or just a metaphor for the ancient nature of the electronics/software. Either way, did the lack of a mid life renewal of the traction package make the maintenance task increasingly challenging?

 

[Fuzzytop]

Richard Clinnick on Twitter reports that 365518 and 365539 are today's doomed pair, on their way to Newport at the moment. 539 was the last one I used, quite sad really.

14 to go...

 

[D365]

Why was there never a mid life renewal of the traction package, like on the class 465s? I heard more than once that the class 365s ran on Windows 95, but never knew whether it was literally true or just a metaphor for the ancient nature of the electronics/software. Either way, did the lack of a mid life renewal of the traction package make the maintenance task increasingly challenging?

It was only the Brush Class 465s that were renewed. The GEC Networkers (465/2, 466, 365) were not touched.

And no Windows on the Networkers. They don’t have any form of train computer.

 

[warwickshire]

Good morning from goring and Streetly Tuesday 11th January 2021.
Today 57312 took 365539 and 365518 for scrap.
On the 0533 Belmont yard to Newport Simms stock scrap move.

 

[Roast Veg]

And no Windows on the Networkers. They don’t have any form of train computer.

Nothing like the integrated TCMS on later units, but the oft reocunted tale of the PIS is that FCC lost the "floppies".