Have electric vehicles been "oversold" to the detriment of public transport, walking and cycling?

[37424]

And I expect more and more companies will seek to offer subscriptions to get faster charging for less, thus earning another easy regular income that people will forget to cancel.

Forget the subscription nonsense and messing about with apps, just need a simple contactless pay as you go setup that you get with some of the newer chargers, and a reasonable charging rate which in my view is probably around 30 to 35p per KW anything above that is rip off in my view.

At 40p per KW that roughly equivalent to a car that can do 60mpg at present prices, which considering I had a self charging hybrid that could do that mpg before the electric that isn't a good incentive in my view especially for people that don't have home chargers.

 

[reddragon]

Cheaper to use petrol!
I do remain if the opinion that the companies have got their pricing backwards. Given the capital investment required for a charger, it would make more sense to charge people less for a quicker charge than more. Their current model just encouraged people to charge more slowly, so they sell less electricity and lower volume per charge station. Bonkers.

I went 170m for lunch in Wales, the trip cost me £2.50, I went 85m to visit a friend, the trip cost £1.25. In the summer these trips would be free.

At the moment kw rates are about cost of charger & facilities, that will change in the future.

And I expect more and more companies will seek to offer subscriptions to get faster charging for less, thus earning another easy regular income that people will forget to cancel.

They already do.


The unfairness that remains is that home charging is very cheap and on street parking chargers are not.

 

[jon0844]

I guess that's capitalism, and of course these subs will encourage more to be built - so it's a necessary evil.

 

[XAM2175]

I went 170m for lunch in Wales, the trip cost me £2.50, I went 85m to visit a friend, the trip cost £1.25. In the summer these trips would be free.

Miles (mi) rather than metres (m), I presume?

 

[The Ham]

I went 170m for lunch in Wales, the trip cost me £2.50, I went 85m to visit a friend, the trip cost £1.25. In the summer these trips would be free.

At the moment kw rates are about cost of charger & facilities, that will change in the future.


They already do.


The unfairness that remains is that home charging is very cheap and on street parking chargers are not.

The one thing to note is that there are starting to be apps which allow those with home chargers to hire these out to others, the one below suggests (for a 7kwh charger) a price of up to £2/hour (up to 29p/kWh).

Co Charger - Co Charger: Neighbourhood EV charger sharing made easy

Co Charger Community Charging supports electric vehicle growth through enabling neighbours to rent out and share home EV chargers

co-charger.com

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2021 ==

Not sure if it's worth of a new thread, however vaguely related to cars vs active travel.

Car adverts from March will have to include messaging to encourage walking, car sharing and public transport.

New law to force French car adverts to include green travel message

A new law will force car advertisements in France to carry messages that encourage more eco-friendly forms of transport such as cycling and public transport.

t.co

New law to force French car adverts to include green travel message.

Car adverts are to be required to show adverts encouraging people to use more ecological modes of transport.

A new law will force car advertisements in France to carry messages that encourage more eco-friendly forms of transport such as cycling and public transport. Many products in France are required to carry warnings: “Smoking kills”; “Avoid eating too much fat”; “Abuse of Alcohol is dangerous for your health”.

From March 2022, a new law will force the advertisers for automobile industry to do the same. All car adverts will need to contain one of the following messages: Pour les trajets courts, privilégiez la marche ou le vélo – For short journeys, prioritise walking or cycling Pensez à covoiturer – Think about lift sharing Au quotidien, prenez les transports en commun – On a day-to-day basis, take public transport

The messages must be clearly visible/audible and advertisers face a €50,000 fine should they fail to comply with the new rules. They must also mention the hashtag #SeDéplacerMoinsPolluer – which encourages people to choose less polluting forms of transport.

Car manufacturers and advertisers will also have to mention which emissions class the advertised vehicle falls into.

Environmental campaigners had been calling for a ban on advertising for all cars (like that imposed on the tobacco industry), which represent a significant portion of emissions within the transport sector as a whole. As it stands, adverts for the most polluting vehicles (those that produce 123g of CO2/km) will be banned from 2028.

The EU commission wants to phase out all combustion engines by 2035. See also on The Local: Behind supermarkets, the automobile sector is the second largest advertiser in France. The WWF estimates that 42 percent of all automobile advertisement spending in France is used to promote SUVs – among the most polluting vehicles of all.

Automobile industry figures have hit back against the new regulations. “It stigmatises drivers,” said Lionel French Keogh, the CEO of Hyundai in France. “It is the first time that we have had such a direct message from the government. But if I am doing a short journey and have to go along a main road, I will do so neither on foot nor by bicycle,” he told AFP. The decision not to ban automobile adverts altogether has saved billions of euros worth of advertising revenue for media organisations in France.

 

[krus_aragon]

I do remain if the opinion that the companies have got their pricing backwards. Given the capital investment required for a charger, it would make more sense to charge people less for a quicker charge than more. Their current model just encouraged people to charge more slowly, so they sell less electricity and lower volume per charge station. Bonkers.

More capital investment is needed for faster chargers, though: if you have half a dozen 350kW chargers, you're looking at around 2MW of power draw when they're all occupied. On a 240V supply, that'd be more than 8,000 amps!

(In reality, you'd be looking for a higher-voltage industrial connection to the grid, to avoid ludicrous currents.)

 

[reddragon]

25.5% of car sales in December were pure EV and rising! EVs took 1st & 10th in the month, with 2 other models having EV versions.

The Tesla M3 was the 2nd best seller of 2021.

Sadly, cars are selling at 55x the rate of new public charger installations!

 

[AM9]

More capital investment is needed for faster chargers, though: if you have half a dozen 350kW chargers, you're looking at around 2MW of power draw when they're all occupied. On a 240V supply, that'd be more than 8,000 amps!

(In reality, you'd be looking for a higher-voltage industrial connection to the grid, to avoid ludicrous currents.)

Althougfh mathmatically correct not really a relevant comparison. The two types of chargers are addressing a totally different market. Apart from home charging which will be mostly kW wired into a consumer unit, there will be chargers meant for 1-3hour charges whilst visiting various retail/leisure/work locations. The 50+kW setups are really best serving 'en route' charging needs where an occupancy element in the charge would prevent hogging key resources. The nature of the fast charging stations' clientele is that they will be strategically located where those on longer journeys are prevalent. As such, that will justify the provision of a sensibly sized DNO connection.

 

[krus_aragon]

Althougfh mathmatically correct not really a relevant comparison. The two types of chargers are addressing a totally different market. Apart from home charging which will be mostly kW wired into a consumer unit, there will be chargers meant for 1-3hour charges whilst visiting various retail/leisure/work locations. The 50+kW setups are really best serving 'en route' charging needs where an occupancy element in the charge would prevent hogging key resources.

I seem to have failed to convey my point well enough. The poster I was replying to said they'd expect stations to charge more money for charging a car slowly (i.e. slow turnover of customers). While this makes sense in one aspect, I wanted to raise the point that fast charging requires more expensive infrastructure, so you'd expect to see a high price tag associated with fast chargers.

The occupancy element you mention will presumably encourage people to move their vehicle once it's charged, and keep turnover up.

 

[jon0844]

Sadly, cars are selling at 55x the rate of new public charger installations!

It does seem like this might change relatively soon as more and more private companies are investing in charging equipment. Now of course they're doing this to make a profit, and a local car park has recently installed around 40-50 charging bays (not sure about the charge speed - but in a car park I guess they don't need to be as quick) presumably to encourage users to park there than the many other car parks (mostly council run) that have none.

The problem is that all these private companies are presumably free to charge what they want and those in premium locations are charging the most for the fastest charge - and people accept this is a convenience fee.

I guess that premium is ultimately what will encourage more to be built though...

...problem is, as time goes on, how long will it be before the big companies on the motorway services think they can increase the pricing to be akin to the cost of petrol and diesel, because 'well, people were happy to pay that before'.

 

[Failed Unit]

It does seem like this might change relatively soon as more and more private companies are investing in charging equipment. Now of course they're doing this to make a profit, and a local car park has recently installed around 40-50 charging bays (not sure about the charge speed - but in a car park I guess they don't need to be as quick) presumably to encourage users to park there than the many other car parks (mostly council run) that have none.

The problem is that all these private companies are presumably free to charge what they want and those in premium locations are charging the most for the fastest charge - and people accept this is a convenience fee.

I guess that premium is ultimately what will encourage more to be built though...

...problem is, as time goes on, how long will it be before the big companies on the motorway services think they can increase the pricing to be akin to the cost of petrol and diesel, because 'well, people were happy to pay that before'.

As you are from the area haven’t the charging points reached Hatfield yet. Most small car parks in WGC have a least 4 installed in the past 6 months. WGC station has them as well. Not sure about the power. One thing I am noticing at various times of day is these spaces are full of “normal cars” which could cause a problem if you are short on juice.

 

[AM9]

As you are from the area haven’t the charging points reached Hatfield yet. Most small car parks in WGC have a least 4 installed in the past 6 months. WGC station has them as well. Not sure about the power. One thing I am noticing at various times of day is these spaces are full of “normal cars” which could cause a problem if you are short on juice.

That can be fixed with an 'occupation charge'. If there is low cost charging, that occupation charge should include the charging cost. Alternatively if cars are parked in the bays without being connected, a penalty charge (of the financial kind) could be made, - possibly backed up with a camera sensing the presence of a vehicle that isn't connected. There are a number of means by which abuse of the spaces can be discouraged.

 

[jon0844]

As you are from the area haven’t the charging points reached Hatfield yet. Most small car parks in WGC have a least 4 installed in the past 6 months. WGC station has them as well. Not sure about the power. One thing I am noticing at various times of day is these spaces are full of “normal cars” which could cause a problem if you are short on juice.

The new car park I'm talking about is the car park alongside the ECML at WGC (not sure who operates it, NCP?) and it's very impressive (there's also a locker for picking up and sending parcels).

I know about Hatfield station (lots of spaces there, but not as many as WGC) and the new Hatfield town centre multi storey.. but for the most part, car parks either zero or a pathetic number. 4 or 8 spots in a multi storey is a token gesture and unless they're planning to massively expand it very soon, I doubt many people would be confident in going shopping and hoping to find a spot now EV sales are rocketing. Assuming they're slow chargers, with people leaving the vehicle there for a few hours (or even all day if they're commuting) it's not like you're going to wait as you might at a rapid charger where someone is only stopped to charge.

Some bays have maximum times, but usually at least 3 or 4 hours, and I'd hope those that overstay or aren't charging get a penalty, but with many car parks being ANPR based I doubt there's a physical check very often - another big problem to overcome. Remember, we live in a society where people won't read a sign and comply - they'll do whatever they think they can get away with.

 

[trebor79]

I seem to have failed to convey my point well enough. The poster I was replying to said they'd expect stations to charge more money for charging a car slowly (i.e. slow turnover of customers). While this makes sense in one aspect, I wanted to raise the point that fast charging requires more expensive infrastructure, so you'd expect to see a high price tag associated with fast chargers.

But what you see is (eg) 360kW chargers with a range of tariffs, with a 50kW delivery being sometimes less than half the price of 350kW. This makes no sense whatsoever, as having made the investment, the company is now selling discounted electricity to people who are prepared to wait longer, thereby tying up that expensive kit and limiting the amount of power it can sell in a day.
Usually you get a discount for buying high volumes of something, not smaller!

I get the argument that "people will pay for convenience/speed" but I'm not sure that it will work out like that, especially once the charge companies raise prices to be on a par with petrol (which they will at some point).

 

[dgl]

But what you see is (eg) 360kW chargers with a range of tariffs, with a 50kW delivery being sometimes less than half the price of 350kW. This makes no sense whatsoever, as having made the investment, the company is now selling discounted electricity to people who are prepared to wait longer, thereby tying up that expensive kit and limiting the amount of power it can sell in a day.
Usually you get a discount for buying high volumes of something, not smaller!

I get the argument that "people will pay for convenience/speed" but I'm not sure that it will work out like that, especially once the charge companies raise prices to be on a par with petrol (which they will at some point).

As I understand there is an extra charge levied once a load goes above a certain wattage. Naturally conntecting large unpredicatable loads to the grid is not good for grid stability, hence the extra charge and they therefore have no option but to charge you more.
These charges naturally affect anyone with large unpredictable loads not just EV chargers.

 

[Failed Unit]

That can be fixed with an 'occupation charge'. If there is low cost charging, that occupation charge should include the charging cost. Alternatively if cars are parked in the bays without being connected, a penalty charge (of the financial kind) could be made, - possibly backed up with a camera sensing the presence of a vehicle that isn't connected. There are a number of means by which abuse of the spaces can be discouraged.

I have just taken a look at the bays more closely, still not sure what the power output of the charger is, but they have now changed the signage (it is one of those things you don't notice when you are on the footpath). 4 hour maximum for charging and EVs only. Not enforced (yet) by cameras so I guess it is down to the traffic warden. In this particular park it is a local shopping area so I expect 4 hours is more than enough for people to do their business. The charging itself if paid for by the app.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2022 ==

The new car park I'm talking about is the car park alongside the ECML at WGC (not sure who operates it, NCP?) and it's very impressive (there's also a locker for picking up and sending parcels).

I know about Hatfield station (lots of spaces there, but not as many as WGC) and the new Hatfield town centre multi storey.. but for the most part, car parks either zero or a pathetic number. 4 or 8 spots in a multi storey is a token gesture and unless they're planning to massively expand it very soon, I doubt many people would be confident in going shopping and hoping to find a spot now EV sales are rocketing. Assuming they're slow chargers, with people leaving the vehicle there for a few hours (or even all day if they're commuting) it's not like you're going to wait as you might at a rapid charger where someone is only stopped to charge.

Some bays have maximum times, but usually at least 3 or 4 hours, and I'd hope those that overstay or aren't charging get a penalty, but with many car parks being ANPR based I doubt there's a physical check very often - another big problem to overcome. Remember, we live in a society where people won't read a sign and comply - they'll do whatever they think they can get away with.

I am not sure who owns that car park, but it is APCOA that manage the car park (as is common I think with all GTR stations). A good portion of EV spaces, but realistically I don't think I would rely on these and probably would have a full charge.

To me as others have probably said on this thread the range isn't quiet there to be confident about using them. If you have driven from somewhere that would take you to the edge of the range, even with the work Welwyn Hatfield district council have done (which I expect is similar UK wide) - I wouldn't be confident I could find a working charging point. I guess it is the same problem with petrol, but the difference is you can "splash and dash" if you get your range calculations wrong. I am sure capacity of EVs will get better, but then you will possibly need to have 50% spaces dedicated to EVs. The other thing that will be interesting is visiting people, I come and see you but wouldn't expect you to have a can of Petrol, but now I may be begging you to charge my car which will hit your electric bill. I would of course pay you, but how much?

 

[trebor79]

As I understand there is an extra charge levied once a load goes above a certain wattage. Naturally conntecting large unpredicatable loads to the grid is not good for grid stability, hence the extra charge and they therefore have no option but to charge you more.
These charges naturally affect anyone with large unpredictable loads not just EV chargers.

That's not how it works. The electricity price is the electricity price and independant of instantaneous load. You are correct that 10 x 350kW chargers will likely be a much more expensive connection than 10 x 50kW chargers, but that's a one-off sunk cost. It makes no sense to incur that cost, then encourage the capacity to be under-utilised by discounting the price to people who choose to charge at a slower rate.
Even if the electricity price varied with load, why wouldn't you just charge all of your customers the higher rate, to encourage those that can to use the higher charging speeds?

 

[jon0844]

But what you see is (eg) 360kW chargers with a range of tariffs, with a 50kW delivery being sometimes less than half the price of 350kW. This makes no sense whatsoever, as having made the investment, the company is now selling discounted electricity to people who are prepared to wait longer, thereby tying up that expensive kit and limiting the amount of power it can sell in a day.
Usually you get a discount for buying high volumes of something, not smaller!

I get the argument that "people will pay for convenience/speed" but I'm not sure that it will work out like that, especially once the charge companies raise prices to be on a par with petrol (which they will at some point).

It doesn't need to make sense as they've clearly worked out that people can and will* pay more to charge quicker and continue their journey. If they're willing to wait, they'll expect to pay less. Logic doesn't really fit into it, but as slower chargers are likely to be a lot cheaper then eventually you may find most spaces have power (just as in Sweden many residential car parks have power for every space so car owners can connect a heater).

I also wonder, and someone will probably tell me it already exists, if these sites that let you rent a parking space on someone's drive will soon let you pay to use a residential charging socket (giving a bit of income to the homeowner) which will then allow people who have fitted EV chargers at home to make some money when they're out.

* They don't have a lot of choice on a motorway service station of course - but presumably in the future, competition may allow for cheaper places a short drive away - just as I'd always look for petrol or shops off the motorway than use a service station (the latter used ONLY if desperate for the toilet).

I am not sure who owns that car park, but it is APCOA that manage the car park (as is common I think with all GTR stations). A good portion of EV spaces, but realistically I don't think I would rely on these and probably would have a full charge.

The car park at WGC is not anything to do with GTR. It's a private car park, possibly leased from the council. It may of course still be run by Apcoa but I didn't see their logo. I though the signage looked like NCP's design/font but there's no logo (that I could see, but it was at night) so I am not entirely sure.

Probably isn't hard to find out, but I guess it's not that important... only that I think we'll see significant numbers of bays installed at many car parks this year.

 

[reddragon]

It doesn't need to make sense as they've clearly worked out that people can and will* pay more to charge quicker and continue their journey. If they're willing to wait, they'll expect to pay less. Logic doesn't really fit into it, but as slower chargers are likely to be a lot cheaper then eventually you may find most spaces have power (just as in Sweden many residential car parks have power for every space so car owners can connect a heater).

I also wonder, and someone will probably tell me it already exists, if these sites that let you rent a parking space on someone's drive will soon let you pay to use a residential charging socket (giving a bit of income to the homeowner) which will then allow people who have fitted EV chargers at home to make some money when they're out.

* They don't have a lot of choice on a motorway service station of course - but presumably in the future, competition may allow for cheaper places a short drive away - just as I'd always look for petrol or shops off the motorway than use a service station (the latter used ONLY if desperate for the toilet).

The cost of a rapid charger is many times more than a home wall charger. Most type 2 fast chargers are paid for by grants, businesses or site owners using available power supplies at little cost. These are often used to provide free charging to promote a businesses green credentials or sales. The best you can expect is the sale of 7kw of power an hour, not even worth the cost of charging for it in many cases.

Rapids need very costly grid supplies, transformers, battery balancing packs and the units are very costly. It is easy to charge for their usage, charge costs make the charging process viable. You can charge by the kw and the minute as some do already, plus overstay charge options. The return for a charge point owner has to be much higher as the KWs sold versus capital cost is much poorer. Also, home charger owners will only use rapids on a long trip or free destination chargers.

Yes there are several ways now you can rent a parking space with a charger.

Motorway Services are Gridserve, plus some Ionity but many chargers are deliberately just off a junction with facilities like a pub, cafe etc. As you navigate by Zap-Map that's fine.

 

[Shrop]

Not sure if I've missed something in this thread, but has anyone thought about the threat (promise) of vastly increased energy bills that are starting around April? As I understand it, this means electricity will cost a LOT more than it does now, while petrol prices won't change much. Won't this swing the balance of running costs quite strongly back from electric towards petrol cars?

 

[AM9]

Not sure if I've missed something in this thread, but has anyone thought about the threat (promise) of vastly increased energy bills that are starting around April? As I understand it, this means electricity will cost a LOT more than it does now, while petrol prices won't change much. Won't this swing the balance of running costs quite strongly back from electric towards petrol cars?

No, once EVs are in the majority, petrol will start to attract a premium from its reduced availability and the closure of many supply networks. Electricity is currently rising in cost as a consequence of international gas shortages and the UK government's failure to provide security of supplies.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure if I've missed something in this thread, but has anyone thought about the threat (promise) of vastly increased energy bills that are starting around April? As I understand it, this means electricity will cost a LOT more than it does now, while petrol prices won't change much. Won't this swing the balance of running costs quite strongly back from electric towards petrol cars?

Petrol is nearly £1.50 a litre now and still going up.

 

[NoRoute]

Not sure if I've missed something in this thread, but has anyone thought about the threat (promise) of vastly increased energy bills that are starting around April? As I understand it, this means electricity will cost a LOT more than it does now, while petrol prices won't change much. Won't this swing the balance of running costs quite strongly back from electric towards petrol cars?

Firstly, many people are opting for EVs as their new company or salary sacrifice car because of the very low benefit in kind tax, which makes them an attractive choice over petrol and diesel. That affects car buying decisions at the point of purchase and won't change.

Even with increased electricity costs, the per mile running cost is still likely to be a lot lower than petrol or diesel. At £1.50 a litre, assuming 50mpg, that 13.6ppm for petrol, whereas electric even at 30p/kWh assuming 3 mile per kWh is 10ppm. In practice a lot of EV drivers sign up for time of use tariffs and charge overnight on the off-peak rate, EV tariffs continue to offer off peak rates below 10p/kWh, so less than 4p per mile.

 

[AM9]

Firstly, many people are opting for EVs as their new company or salary sacrifice car because of the very low benefit in kind tax, which makes them an attractive choice over petrol and diesel. That affects car buying decisions at the point of purchase and won't change.

Even with increased electricity costs, the per mile running cost is still likely to be a lot lower than petrol or diesel. At £1.50 a litre, assuming 50mpg, that 13.6ppm for petrol, whereas electric even at 30p/kWh assuming 3 mile per kWh is 10ppm. In practice a lot of EV drivers sign up for time of use tariffs and charge overnight on the off-peak rate, EV tariffs continue to offer off peak rates below 10p/kWh, so less than 4p per mile.

And of course the costs of ownership in terms of maintenance (and probably insurance as a consequence) will be lower as apart from the common components e.g. brakes, suspension and steering, there is very little that has anything like the wear and unreliability issues of an ICV. Ownwers will increasingly view on the overall cost rather than focus on something like fuel.

 

[DustyBin]

Returning to the thread title, I have colleagues who are now three months or more into EV contracts (mostly Model 3s and Q4 e-trons). Some are now using public transport for longer journeys due to range (or as I keep saying, actually infrastructure) anxiety so there are benefits in terms of public transport use (although admittedly domestic flying isn’t great environmentally!).

The common issue seems to be setting off on a 250 mile journey (for example) with a planned break and top up halfway, only to find there isn’t a charger available which means waiting or taking a chance (even you get to your destination you then REALLY need to find a charger!). Not everybody has this issue as some people never need to drive more than 150 miles in a day but for people in roles similar to my own it’s a problem. It’s exactly what put me off getting an EV at this stage to be honest but if my concerns proved to be unfounded I’d have happily admitted I was wrong.

So, I ordered a new car yesterday (my own not a company car) and it’s petrol, probably my last. The dealer made a silly offer for my current car (it’s barely depreciated in two years) so it was a no-brainer. It will be interesting what the situation is when I’m next looking in two to three years time; hopefully the choice of EVs and charging infrastructure has improved by then!

 

[reddragon]

The common issue seems to be setting off on a 250 mile journey (for example) with a planned break and top up halfway, only to find there isn’t a charger available which means waiting or taking a chance (even you get to your destination you then REALLY need to find a charger!). Not everybody has this issue as some people never need to drive more than 150 miles in a day but for people in roles similar to my own it’s a problem. It’s exactly what put me off getting an EV at this stage to be honest but if my concerns proved to be unfounded I’d have happily admitted I was wrong.

The problem that started this year was huge uptake in EVs without a comparable increase in chargers, 55 EVs sold per new rapid charger in 2021.

With the current roll out rate by Gridserve, MFG, Instavolt etc that problem will be short lived.

 

[DustyBin]

The problem that started this year was huge uptake in EVs without a comparable increase in chargers, 55 EVs sold per new rapid charger in 2021.

Yes I think it’s a simple case of the infrastructure not keeping up.

With the current roll out rate by Gridserve, MFG, Instavolt etc that problem will be short lived.

Hopefully over the next couple of years we’ll see a dramatic improvement.

Another thing that should become clear over the next year or two is how EVs will be “taxed” as something will need to be done to counter the loss of road tax and fuel duty income.

 

[Shrop]

The problem that started this year was huge uptake in EVs without a comparable increase in chargers, 55 EVs sold per new rapid charger in 2021.

With the current roll out rate by Gridserve, MFG, Instavolt etc that problem will be short lived.

I have a PHEV so I enjoy the benefits of electric running and also the lack of range anxiety. I've never yet used a charger away from home (except at the houses of friends/family), but I've looked into it and found it prohibitively difficult! When I last looked a few months ago, you had to install an app in advance, for each of many different providers, just in case the place you want to charge happened to have that particular provider. It was nothing like as simple as just turning up and using a bank card like you do for petrol ...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have a PHEV so I enjoy the benefits of electric running and also the lack of range anxiety. I've never yet used a charger away from home (except at the houses of friends/family), but I've looked into it and found it prohibitively difficult! When I last looked a few months ago, you had to install an app in advance, for each of many different providers, just in case the place you want to charge happened to have that particular provider. It was nothing like as simple as just turning up and using a bank card like you do for petrol ...

The ones near me are definitely just "tap your card". However, installing an app takes a few seconds, and after a few times you'd have all of them there and ready.

 

[reddragon]

Another thing that should become clear over the next year or two is how EVs will be “taxed” as something will need to be done to counter the loss of road tax and fuel duty income.

That is a bit of a red herring actually.

Once you take into account the health care costs of air pollution and the extravagant subsidies to the oil industry, then savings from much lower energy costs for the Government once we go 100% renewables the gap is tiny.

The transition period will be an issue though as legacy air pollution related health issues will take a while to fade