Things that used to be common place in people’s homes

[Peter Sarf]

I've childhood memories of stuff appearing in shops with "made in Taiwan". Of course I hadn't a clue where that was or its significance to local jobs etc.

That is the thing. Cheaper to buy but then have to support the local unemployed economy via taxes etc. But then we do not really want a return to the attitude of "it does not matter how well I do it the country will pay anyway". Its a two edged sword. Suffering vs complacency. But the short term greed of saving money now sits uncomfortably with the long term after effects of poverty.

There you go - nationalised industries.

 

[Gloster]

Back in the 1960s there was an ‘I’m backing Britain’ campaign. One of our neighbours got a large poster/sticker, which he displayed prominently in the back window of his Citroen.

 

[najaB]

All the talk of encouraging people to "buy British" rather misses the point - if British products were objectively better than the import then people would pay a premium for the perceived better value with out any need to be encouraged.

Just look at how people spend a lot more for branded products than the supermarket own-brand, despite them often being made on exactly the same production lines.

 

[Non Multi]

Back in the 1960s there was an ‘I’m backing Britain’ campaign. One of our neighbours got a large poster/sticker, which he displayed prominently in the back window of his Citroen.

Citroën had a car plant on the Slough Trading Estate, building cars there until 1965.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Citroën had a car plant on the Slough Trading Estate, building cars there until 1965.

In another twist. My Vauxhall Carlton was built in Germany - it is really an Opel Omega A !.

As for quality I would say many people buy the cheapest. However advertising can convince them that a certain brand it better but with no concrete proof. An example is my better half will insist on buying Nurofen which is just a nicely boxed and advertised tablet/capsule containing "Ibuprofen". She rejects my purchases of Cheap supermarket brand "Ibuprofen" with no understanding of the relative qualities (identical).

 

[WesternLancer]

All the talk of encouraging people to "buy British" rather misses the point - if British products were objectively better than the import then people would pay a premium for the perceived better value with out any need to be encouraged.

Just look at how people spend a lot more for branded products than the supermarket own-brand, despite them often being made on exactly the same production lines.

This is a fair point - and some do - but I think in many cases (tho perhaps not supermarket own brand food?) not vast numbers - or not enough to sustain the market. I doubt a British made spud masher, for example, was notably better than one now bought and made in china. Many people do seem very heavily price driven, even if they could afford to pay more - tho some of course can not afford that choice.

 

[gg1]

Just look at how people spend a lot more for branded products than the supermarket own-brand, despite them often being made on exactly the same production lines

It's only as simple as that if there's only one company who make the product in question. If there is a particular brand of teabags/ketchup/soup/loo roll/detergent/squash/shampoo etc etc you have a preference for AND money is not that tight that you need to cut back your weekly shop to the bare minimum, most people will just stick with what they like rather than take a chance on something which is cheaper but may or may not be inferior.

 

[najaB]

Many people do seem very heavily price driven, even if they could afford to pay more - tho some of course can not afford that choice.

Some people are strictly price driven - usually because they have little or no margin in their budget. Everyone else is value driven - they will spend as much as feels "right" for the product. For example, I've seen people who won't buy a product because it's "too cheap". For a small number of people it feels right to spend more on a product because it was made in the UK, but we can't depend on that.

What we (read "the Government") need to do is help manufacturers improve their product (that could be the actual product or building the brand) to the point that more customers feel comfortable spending more for the product on its own merits, rather that because of where it was made.

If there is a particular brand of teabags/ketchup/soup/loo roll/detergent/squash/shampoo etc etc you have a preference for AND money is not that tight that you need to cut back your weekly shop to the bare minimum, most people will just stick with what they like rather than take a chance on something which is cheaper but may or may not be inferior.

That's exactly the point I'm making! People's perception of value depends on more than the cost of the product or its actual performance.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just look at how people spend a lot more for branded products than the supermarket own-brand, despite them often being made on exactly the same production lines.

Sometimes, but not always, the product formulation of own brand food items (compared with branded alternatives) will differ, which can then affect the taste and/or texture. This can actually work out as being healthier for you, though, if the own brand products have less fat or salt.

 

[najaB]

Sometimes, but not always, the product formulation of own brand food items (compared with branded alternatives) will differ, which can then affect the taste and/or texture. This can actually work out as being healthier for you, though, if the own brand products have less fat or salt.

Oh, naturally the formulations will be different - if only because the brand owners demand it. But the point I was making is that many people won't even consider trying the store-brand simply because "there's no way it could be as good".

 

[johnnychips]

It's only as simple as that if there's only one company who make the product in question. If there is a particular brand of teabags/ketchup/soup/loo roll/detergent/squash/shampoo etc etc you have a preference for AND money is not that tight that you need to cut back your weekly shop to the bare minimum, most people will just stick with what they like rather than take a chance on something which is cheaper but may or may not be inferior.

Good point. The only brands I insist on buying by name because I perceive them as better are:

Domestos bleach (for unmentionable reasons)
Bisto gravy granules

And fortunately they are both always available at Poundland, and cost…well you can work it out

 

[Ediswan]

Just look at how people spend a lot more for branded products than the supermarket own-brand, despite them often being made on exactly the same production lines.

Many years ago, I spent a few months working in the QA department of a South Wales light bulb factory. The only difference between branded and Woolworths was that it was neccesary to change the stamp on the end of bulb and the packaging.

 

[swt_passenger]

Many years ago, I spent a few months working in the QA department of a South Wales light bulb factory…

Is that by any chance the main reason for your forum user name?

 

[Ediswan]

Is that by any chance the main reason for your forum user name?

Could be.

 

[PG]

Could be.

I'm glad you felt able to enlighten us

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'm glad you felt able to enlighten us

Very illuminating!

 

[Acey]

Many years ago I worked for a while in a factory making biscuits,we used to wrap the same products in various different supermarket labels ( even a rival manufacturer ) all sold at different mark ups ,depending on the perceived status of the retailer !

 

[jfollows]

All the talk of encouraging people to "buy British" rather misses the point - if British products were objectively better than the import then people would pay a premium for the perceived better value with out any need to be encouraged.

Just look at how people spend a lot more for branded products than the supermarket own-brand, despite them often being made on exactly the same production lines.

I don't disagree, but when Marks & Spencer switched from sourcing from the UK to overseas they lost my custom because I also perceived the British products as better than the replacement import and was prepared to pay a premium whereas for the replacement products I could buy the same for less at other retailers.
They presumably made a call that more of their customers were more sensitive to price than I was, or that the quality of non-British products was comparable.
I'm not sure with the wisdom of hindsight that they made the right call. But it's hard to predict what would have otherwise happened. I spent a couple of months working at the M&S data centre in Stockley Park in the 1990s and even there there was a good sense of culture and pride to be working for the company, which I wouldn't expect to be the case today.

 

[Acey]

A case in point,I love butter and would willingly and happily pay a premium for a British made butter that tastes as good as the French brand ( President ) that I buy at a premium price ,I have tried all of the British higher priced brands and to me, at least, none compare ,I don't really like buying anything from abroad ( least of all those nice French folks ) but until a British producer comes up with something comparable I will continue to help the French economy

 

[WesternLancer]

I don't disagree, but when Marks & Spencer switched from sourcing from the UK to overseas they lost my custom because I also perceived the British products as better than the replacement import and was prepared to pay a premium whereas for the replacement products I could buy the same for less at other retailers.
They presumably made a call that more of their customers were more sensitive to price than I was, or that the quality of non-British products was comparable.
I'm not sure with the wisdom of hindsight that they made the right call. But it's hard to predict what would have otherwise happened. I spent a couple of months working at the M&S data centre in Stockley Park in the 1990s and even there there was a good sense of culture and pride to be working for the company, which I wouldn't expect to be the case today.

Yes, I largely took the same buying decision ref M&S - what seemed to happen was that it was once possible to buy good quality UK made clothing (for example) made for the mass market at a reasonable price. If you now want made in UK clothing you have to go to up market niche producers at high cost, or settle for lower priced made overseas stuff that is cheaper but also, I think, of varying levels of lower quality, which last for a shorter time.

So I too assume that M&S made the call that majority of their customers were most sensitive to price, not so much to quality.

 

[XAM2175]

On the topic of homewares, I was gratified to find that three things I bought at Tesco yesterday weren't actually made in China - a scrubbing brush (Spain), a Vileda mop (UK), and a swing-top rubbish bin (UK, and from recycled plastic too) - so all's not entirely lost!

 

[najaB]

If you now want made in UK clothing you have to go to up market niche producers at high cost, or settle for lower priced made overseas stuff that is cheaper but also, I think, of varying levels of lower quality, which last for a shorter time.

Evidence?

 

[Western Lord]

And then we had the era of made in Hong Kong then made in Japan. Not much actually comes from Japan nowadays - remember 1970s - 1980s HiFi separates, still got mine.

I'm old enough to remember when stuff made in Hong Kong was labelled "Empire Made"!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Some people are strictly price driven - usually because they have little or no margin in their budget. Everyone else is value driven - they will spend as much as feels "right" for the product. For example, I've seen people who won't buy a product because it's "too cheap". For a small number of people it feels right to spend more on a product because it was made in the UK, but we can't depend on that.

What we (read "the Government") need to do is help manufacturers improve their product (that could be the actual product or building the brand) to the point that more customers feel comfortable spending more for the product on its own merits, rather that because of where it was made.

That's exactly the point I'm making! People's perception of value depends on more than the cost of the product or its actual performance.

A big driver is how much has the product been reduced by - not its final price. I see people buying things they do not even need because the price has come down. The fact that another shop is selling it for a similar or even cheaper price seems to have passed them by.

Oh, naturally the formulations will be different - if only because the brand owners demand it. But the point I was making is that many people won't even consider trying the store-brand simply because "there's no way it could be as good".

A colleague of mine would never buy from Argos - because everything there is cheap rubbish. I tried getting them to look at what is actually in the catalogue - as in the exact same products as he was buying elsewhere.

I know someone who worked in the Ruddles brewery back in the late 1970s - early 1980s. He said the exact same bottles filled from the same batch would be labelled either Ruddles County or Sainsburys Rutland Bitter depending on the instructions of the day.

Good point. The only brands I insist on buying by name because I perceive them as better are:

Domestos bleach (for unmentionable reasons)
Bisto gravy granules

And fortunately they are both always available at Poundland, and cost…well you can work it out

Kelloggs Cornflakes are never to be found in own brand. But then I do not like cornflakes !.

A case in point,I love butter and would willingly and happily pay a premium for a British made butter that tastes as good as the French brand ( President ) that I buy at a premium price ,I have tried all of the British higher priced brands and to me, at least, none compare ,I don't really like buying anything from abroad ( least of all those nice French folks ) but until a British producer comes up with something comparable I will continue to help the French economy

Lurpak is my favourite - still Danish I presume. Missus buys spreadable which is of course watered down (literally) so therefore any butter will do.

Yes, I largely took the same buying decision ref M&S - what seemed to happen was that it was once possible to buy good quality UK made clothing (for example) made for the mass market at a reasonable price. If you now want made in UK clothing you have to go to up market niche producers at high cost, or settle for lower priced made overseas stuff that is cheaper but also, I think, of varying levels of lower quality, which last for a shorter time.

So I too assume that M&S made the call that majority of their customers were most sensitive to price, not so much to quality.

M&S possibly relied on their reputation for quality. They could have gone for common products of varying quality based on place of manufacture. But then that would have exposed their brand overall. I am of the belief that too many people would have been tempted by the cheaper version and then thought about getting it even cheaper elsewhere. All I know is that it seems to me that my M&S clothing wears out faster than it used to. I think M&S are suffering from customers racing to the bottom.

I'm old enough to remember when stuff made in Hong Kong was labelled "Empire Made"!

Ah rings a bell - probably something my grandparents would say. Back in the 60s !!?.

 

[WesternLancer]

Evidence?

well - often it is a sense of the thing isn't it - I have not dedicated time in my life to making an accurate research based assessment of how many times I had to wear a pair of trousers before they wore thin with a control based before and after and inflation corrected price comparisons between the UK and Bangladeshi made items if that is what you mean, correcting for all other relevant variables.
But I did start to get the sense in my mind that socks I bought from M&S went threadbare faster than the socks I used to buy from M&S in years gone by...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2022 ==

All I know is that it seems to me that my M&S clothing wears out faster than it used to. I think M&S are suffering from customers racing to the bottom.

and that is my thinking too!

 

[gg1]

Yes, I largely took the same buying decision ref M&S - what seemed to happen was that it was once possible to buy good quality UK made clothing (for example) made for the mass market at a reasonable price. If you now want made in UK clothing you have to go to up market niche producers at high cost, or settle for lower priced made overseas stuff that is cheaper but also, I think, of varying levels of lower quality, which last for a shorter time.

So I too assume that M&S made the call that majority of their customers were most sensitive to price, not so much to quality.

M&S still made decent quality clothes until relatively recently, long after they moved production overseas. I used to buy all my work (office) trousers from there but their quality seemed to drop off a cliff about 5 years ago, with cheaper feeling fabric and appalling stitching on the seams, my guess is they switched to a cheaper supplier. By contrast I own a suit of theirs from the late 00s which is still in excellent condition.

 

[najaB]

But I did start to get the sense in my mind that socks I bought from M&S went threadbare faster than the socks I used to buy from M&S in years gone by...

The problem with that measure "...it seems to me that..." is that it is, by definition, untrustworthy - things were rarely as good as we remember them being.

What we really need is an inflation-adjusted sock life per pound measurement comparing a 2001 sock to a 2021 sock.

 

[WesternLancer]

The problem with that measure "...it seems to me that..." is that it is, by definition, untrustworthy - things were rarely as good as we remember them being.

What we really need is an inflation-adjusted sock life per pound measurement comparing a 2001 sock to a 2021 sock.

Quite so! Sort of thing Which? ought to do! (maybe they do..)

We might have to go back to a 1991 era pre GATT globalisation sock however, if not even older.

 

[Bald Rick]

The problem with that measure "...it seems to me that..." is that it is, by definition, untrustworthy - things were rarely as good as we remember them being.

What we really need is an inflation-adjusted sock life per pound measurement comparing a 2001 sock to a 2021 sock.

Well funnily enough, I have bought the same type of sock from M&S for nearly 25 years, and for reasons I shan’t trouble you with I happen to know how much they cost back in 1999. They have, very roughly, risen at a lower rate than RPI in that time.

I do concur that they wear through more quickly. However that may be because I walk about 3 times the distance per day today than I did in 1999.

So what we need is an inflation adjusted sock life per pound per km walked measurement. That should nail it.

 

[Busaholic]

So what we need is an inflation adjusted sock life per pound per km walked measurement. That should nail it.

I think you're the man to do it (careful where you put those nails!)

I look forward to your redacted report in 2032 - careful you open a new thread!