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SWR - Further Timetable Reductions from 17/1

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Kingston loop

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Today saw a notice at Norbiton that certain services are cancelled until 18 May 2022, ie xx35 to Waterloo and (presumably) the other leg going to Shepperton, this is also reflected in the journey check web site but the service is still in the PDF timetables . Already down to a three an hour service then.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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Today saw a notice at Norbiton that certain services are cancelled until 18 May 2022, ie xx35 to Waterloo and (presumably) the other leg going to Shepperton, this is also reflected in the journey check web site but the service is still in the PDF timetables . Already down to a three an hour service then.
preparing the way for Dec 22
 

infobleep

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If they do run a Sunday timetable then Guildford will get 2 fast trains an hour to Clapham Junction off peak. That could be a welcomed bonus for some.

I would like the actual reasons for all of this to be made public if it isn't entirely down to staffing being off due to covid.

Obviously, it could be a direct Sunday timetable from Guildford as key workers must surely use the 5:14 Guildford to Waterloo service.

If it is, it will be interesting to see Guildford to Ascot have a 7-day timetable again. Currently, only runs on Sundays, with the other days terminating at Aldershot and separate Guildford to Farnham service running.

I don't know how well used the Guildford to Farnham service has been end to end.
 

HamworthyGoods

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If they do run a Sunday timetable then Guildford will get 2 fast trains an hour to Clapham Junction off peak. That could be a welcomed bonus for some.

I would like the actual reasons for all of this to be made public if it isn't entirely down to staffing being off due to covid.

Obviously, it could be a direct Sunday timetable from Guildford as key workers must surely use the 5:14 Guildford to Waterloo service.

If it is, it will be interesting to see Guildford to Ascot have a 7-day timetable again. Currently, only runs on Sundays, with the other days terminating at Aldershot and separate Guildford to Farnham service running.

I don't know how well used the Guildford to Farnham service has been end to end.

In this case I suspect a Sunday timetable refers to a level of frequency on a line (trains per hour) not the actual calling patterns. Take the Pompey Direct a Sunday SWR timetable wouldn’t work alongside a Weekday GWR timetable at Guildford or similarly Southern at Havant. Elsewhere a Sunday SWR timetable wouldn’t work with a weekday Cross Country timetable between Southampton and Bournemouth.
 

Goldfish62

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I would like the actual reasons for all of this to be made public if it isn't entirely down to staffing being off due to covid.
I think "reduced timetable due to a rolling stock shortage" would be a difficult one to explain given SWR's already reduced timetable and would likely throw up some awkward questions that SWR and the DfT would not want to answer.

As usual "Due to Covid" appears to be a useful blanket excuse.
 

Capvermell

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I think "reduced timetable due to a rolling stock shortage" would be a difficult one to explain given SWR's already reduced timetable and would likely throw up some awkward questions that SWR and the DfT would not want to answer.

As usual "Due to Covid" appears to be a useful blanket excuse.

They are obviously using the excuse of COVID driver shortage as a substitute for the reality of it being the middle of the winter under COVID socialising terror (for instance who wants to pay £80 to go to the theatre wearing a face mask) with a vast passenger and revenue shortage. So they seem to reckon that as they have far less passengers and far less revenue they should not have to run the service but because this honest explanation is politically inexpedient they try to claim it is all because there aren't enough drivers available to drive the trains due to positive lateral flow tests.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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So they seem to reckon that as they have far less passengers and far less revenue they should not have to run the service but because this honest explanation is politically inexpedient they try to claim it is all because there aren't enough drivers available to drive the trains due to positive lateral flow tests.
The Rail Delivery Group in their press release kinda acknowledge that

Temporary timetables deliver a more reliable service for passengers and better value for taxpayers by better matching service levels to the current number of passengers
This is the reality of the situation although surprisingly todays covid transport usage data from DofT doesn't show as much a collapse in passenger numbers as i expected over the last few weeks.
 

Cowley

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As much as possible can we leave discussing Covid out of this please.
Thanks!
 

infobleep

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In this case, I suspect a Sunday timetable refers to a level of frequency on a line (trains per hour) not the actual calling patterns. Take the Pompey Direct a Sunday SWR timetable wouldn’t work alongside a Weekday GWR timetable at Guildford or similarly Southern at Havant. Elsewhere a Sunday SWR timetable wouldn’t work with a weekday Cross Country timetable between Southampton and Bournemouth.
So perhaps it will resemble something like the strike timetable but with extra trains than was possible during the strike.

So probably two fast trains an hour from Guildford not far apart at and then nothing for near enough 50 minutes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

They are obviously using the excuse of COVID driver shortage as a substitute for the reality of it being the middle of the winter under COVID socialising terror (for instance who wants to pay £80 to go to the theatre wearing a face mask) with a vast passenger and revenue shortage. So they seem to reckon that as they have far less passengers and far less revenue they should not have to run the service but because this honest explanation is politically inexpedient they try to claim it is all because there aren't enough drivers available to drive the trains due to positive lateral flow tests.
I do want to go to the theatre wearing a face mask. That's better than not going at all. It's off-topic but I had to say that there are people like me out there.

They will surely need to explain stuff transparently though or people will be contacting MPs to raise questions and some of these MPs are Conservative MPs. Me Johnson doesn't have full support if all his MPs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I've just remembered that last Saturday,, New Year's Day, there was a Saturday service on the North Downs Line and a Sunday service on the Portamouth Direct Line. So whilst I appreciate the issues at Haavnt, the issues at Guildford for NDL aren't insurmountable. I don't know what service was provide on the Reading to Waterloo line.

That doesn't mean it's possible due to Havant issues but if they are running less trains from Havant on Southern, who knows. I seriously doubt it though.
 
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pompeyfan

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A friend of mine has been told it’ll be similar to the Jan - May 2021 timetable, including splitting the Weymouth’s and Exeters.
 

Capvermell

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A friend of mine has been told it’ll be similar to the Jan - May 2021 timetable, including splitting the Weymouth’s and Exeters.

And has your "friend" been told that this is now to be a permanent state of affairs for rail travel going forwards or just something that will go on for a few weeks?
 
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pompeyfan

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I’m not really sure why you quote marked the word friend. I’m not going to be identifying them. Current intention is 4 - 8 weeks.
 

pompeyfan

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So why does the current online timetable show services running normally again with effect from Monday 17th January?...........
You’ve caught me out, I’m lying. I’m making it all up for attention…
 

Capvermell

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You’ve caught me out, I’m lying. I’m making it all up for attention…

Well if you say so then I suppose that must be true.;) :p

But you could have said that final decisions haven't yet been taken from 17th January onwards and so the normal timetable has been left in place online for the time being until such a time as a definite decision to continue currently highly limited services or not is taken...........
 

pompeyfan

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Well if you say so then I suppose that must be true.;) :p

But you could have said that final decisions haven't yet been taken from 17th January onwards and so the normal timetable has been left in place online for the time being until such a time as a definite decision to continue currently highly limited services or not is taken...........

I can only go by what I’ve been told, but during the guard strikes at all operators timetables did not appear in public facing systems until 2000 the night before. I would imagine crew and unit diagrams are still being thrashed out by the relevant departments, once this is done the public will have visibility. RTTs runs off Trust I believe, which would imply the times and paths have not been submitted to NR
 

Glenn1969

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I can only go by what I’ve been told, but during the guard strikes at all operators timetables did not appear in public facing systems until 2000 the night before. I would imagine crew and unit diagrams are still being thrashed out by the relevant departments, once this is done the public will have visibility. RTTs runs off Trust I believe, which would imply the times and paths have not been submitted to NR
RTT also says the current timetable is WTT not STP. which presumably implies it will run til May ?
 

Capvermell

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I can only go by what I’ve been told, but during the guard strikes at all operators timetables did not appear in public facing systems until 2000 the night before. I would imagine crew and unit diagrams are still being thrashed out by the relevant departments, once this is done the public will have visibility. RTTs runs off Trust I believe, which would imply the times and paths have not been submitted to NR

So this is an important time to fight and lobby against the proposal of us being left without any evening service south of Dorking during the week for several months ahead..........
 

pompeyfan

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South Western Railway don’t serve south of Dorking anyway so your point is irrelevant.
 

Capvermell

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South Western Railway don’t serve south of Dorking anyway so your point is irrelevant.

I didn't claim South Western does provide service south of Dorking. Only Southern/GoVia does. Boxhill & Weshumble is served by both Southern and SouthWestern while Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham are only served by Southern.

Re challenging reduced timetable from Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham I will obviously be taking that up with Southern/GTRailway and the relevant regulatory and passenger representative bodies and not with SouthWestern.
 

infobleep

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I didn't claim South Western does provide service south of Dorking. Only Southern/GoVia does. Boxhill & Weshumble is served by both Southern and SouthWestern while Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham are only served by Southern.

Re challenging reduced timetable from Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham I will obviously be taking that up with Southern/GTRailway and the relevant regulatory and passenger representative bodies and not with SouthWestern.
This is a thread about SWR and not GTR. So unless comparing the two in some way, comments on GTR are best left for the thread kn Southern disruption.

Out of wider interest, are all TOCs being asked to reduce services to match passenger numbers for the benefit of taxpayers? I appreciate some TOCs may have more passengers using their services so wouldn't need to cut as many services.
 

xtpe

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This is a thread about SWR and not GTR. So unless comparing the two in some way, comments on GTR are best left for the thread kn Southern disruption.

Out of wider interest, are all TOCs being asked to reduce services to match passenger numbers for the benefit of taxpayers? I appreciate some TOCs may have more passengers using their services so wouldn't need to cut as many services.
FROM THE GUARDIAN THIS WEEK


Reduced timetables are to be brought in across Great Britain’s entire railway network by the middle of this month to deal with Covid staff shortages and to match falling passenger numbers.

Train operators said passengers should check before they travel, with more companies due to introduce temporary timetables after moves from ScotRail, LNER and others in December.



The industry body the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) said the reduced schedules would be introduced by 16 January for every operator to make services more resilient and reliable for passengers.



The RDG said the changes would also offer better value for taxpayers in the face of declining usage and fare revenue during the pandemic. It did not give a date for when normal service would resume.

However, unions warned that the current crisis around the spread of the Omicron coronavirus variant should not be used as cover for long-term cuts, while passenger representatives called for first and last services to be maintained throughout.


High levels of staff absence during the latest wave of Covid infections led a number of operators to cancel services in the run-up to Christmas, starting with ScotRail, which was particularly affected because of Scotland’s rules on self-isolation for contacts as well as infected people.

ScotRail brought in a temporary reduced weekday timetable this week, with 150 fewer services a day. CrossCountry has cut about 50 trains a day, while Southern will not run trains to its normal London terminus, Victoria, for the rest of the week.

Transport for Wales and Greater Anglia have switched to amended timetables, while TransPennine Express, South Western, Northern and others are warning of short-notice service changes.

The RDG’s director of people, operations and railway strategy, Susie Homan, said: “The temporary timetables that rail companies are putting in place, with government support, will help ensure more reliable services with fewer short-notice cancellations so that we can continue to get people and goods to where they need to be.

“The government has supported the railway with over £15bn since the start of the pandemic, and it makes sense to better match the number of trains that are running with the number of people travelling, so that the industry gets the most out of every taxpayer pound and doesn’t take more than its fair share of public money.”

Official figures show passenger numbers had fallen back to just over 50% of pre-pandemic levels before Christmas.

However, the TSSA union demanded guarantees that the cuts would only last for the duration of the Omicron wave, with the instruction to work from home where possible making passenger numbers fall rapidly. The general secretary, Manuel Cortes, said: “We really fear that the Tory government is using temporary timetables as cover to reduce services so they can then implement cuts of £2bn on our railways.”

He said the transport secretary, Grant Shapps, should “give passengers copper-bottomed guarantees that rail services will return back to their pre pandemic level as soon as we have any kind of return to normality”, adding: “Failure to do so would be a clear signal of what many fear are this government’s real intentions – cutting train services.”

The RMT general secretary, Mick Lynch, said: “No one should underestimate the impact that Covid is having on transport staff and there is a logic to adjusting services accordingly. However, any attempt to use this crisis to cynically bulldoze through permanent cuts to services and staffing levels would meet the stiffest resistance from this trade union.”

The passenger watchdog Transport Focus said that amending timetables was a pragmatic response if it would prevent chaotic last-minute cancellations. However, Anthony Smith, the chief executive, added: “Services must still meet the needs of those who have to travel, especially key sector workers.

“Operators must protect first and last services, provide enough space to keep passengers at a safe distance from each other, and flexibility so that tickets can be used on alternative routes or times.”
 

Kite159

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Good to see the Union bosses still living in a pre Covid bubble thinking that one day the timetable in use at the start of 2020 with lots of peak time extra trains to cope with the commuter demand will return in full, even though the working from home for some workers will now be the way forward. Gone are the days of 5 days a week commuters paying many thousands a year for season tickets on some routes.

They don't seem to click that the endless tap of taxpayer money which has supported the rail industry for the last 22 months will get eventually get reduced, with some high peak additional services axed for good as the demand has fallen
 

southern442

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True as that may be, SWR seem to be taking these cuts to an extreme, compared to what we are currently seeing with similar operators. Southern for example have come up with what seems to be a timetable that is (until a couple of weeks ago) much more efficient and better suited to their lines than the pre-covid one. SWR have a bit of a gap whilst waiting for new trains, and they have old ones that are either desperately needed elsewhere, waiting to be repurposed for a different part of the network, or are falling apart. So it's no surprise they are being quite severe. Although Southeastern are in a position that is not dissimilar and they seem to be doing okay.
 

deepeetw

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What this week has shown is that (sparing a couple of missed duties on the IoW), there hasn’t been much of a need to cancel things due to crewing issues……
 

JonathanH

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Southern for example have come up with what seems to be a timetable that is (until a couple of weeks ago) much more efficient and better suited to their lines than the pre-covid one.
What is to say there won't be further reductions on Southern in due course, consistent with those at SWR? SWR might just have made more progress in deciding and agreeing the future operation.
 

southern442

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What is to say there won't be further reductions on Southern in due course, consistent with those at SWR? SWR might just have made more progress in deciding and agreeing the future operation.
Even if this is the case, the recent timetable has still worked well, and unless you are specifically starting or finishing your journey at stations between Wandsworth and Victoria, hasn't been too devastating for travel. Plus Southern have only the staff to worry about, as the vast majority of their stock is quite reliable.
 

infobleep

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Good to see the Union bosses still living in a pre Covid bubble thinking that one day the timetable in use at the start of 2020 with lots of peak time extra trains to cope with the commuter demand will return in full, even though the working from home for some workers will now be the way forward. Gone are the days of 5 days a week commuters paying many thousands a year for season tickets on some routes.

They don't seem to click that the endless tap of taxpayer money which has supported the rail industry for the last 22 months will get eventually get reduced, with some high peak additional services axed for good as the demand has fallen
Reminds me of Boris Johnson encouraging everyone to return to the office in 2020 as I think it was.

If we all did that the trains would be busy again. But not enough people are going to listen to Mr Johnson. They like their mix of home and office working.

Back on topic, this is only temporary. If they wish to do something longer term, without wishing to put back in missing services then they need to recast the timetable to try and even it out better.
 

Goldfish62

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Back on topic, this is only temporary. If they wish to do something longer term, without wishing to put back in missing services then they need to recast the timetable to try and even it out better.
That's happening in December.
 
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