Are high numbered bus numbers offputting to potential passengers?

[RustySpoons]

I find Blazefield’s “new” numbering system for local Keighley and the Yeadon Airport routes harder to remember than the three-number designations.
Local Keighley routes are K1–K19 I think? But were 701–729?
Airport routes now A1–A3. But were 757, 747, 737?

A lot of it seems to be change for the sake of change, especially the airport routes. Route numbers that have been in use for years for services to the the airport obviously didn't need making easier to remember. Same with tendered routes they've inherited over at Rosso in Bury and Rochdale, renumbered to B* or R* respectively. Arguably that'll be more confusing if routes get dropped or passed on to another operator.

One example where it has improved things is the Mainline services in Burnley. It got very confusing with a variety of route numbers between 20 - 29, especially when route numbers changed at Burnley for through services. M1-M5 is a lot simpler, though all journeys now begin from Burnley rather than run through.

 

[Taunton]

If we go back to the 1960s or earlier, areas served by large BET or Tilling operators were used to 3 figure route numbers ... variations numbered 271, 272, and 273?.

Ah, the 272 and 273, those were Taunton town bus routes (there were only about half a dozen) at that time.

You had to understand the numbers because the destination shown was impacted by, believe it or not, a long-running shortage of the destination blinds, buses would get transferred around between garages regularly but there were no destination blinds available for the locality. What they did have was "shunting blinds", with just a couple of generic lines. So the final destination was "Western National", and the intermediate points were "Service Number", with the numbers able to show 272. If you didn't know your numbers, you were sunk. There was apparently an instruction to conductors on such vehicles to shout out the destination from the platform at each stop. That didn't happen either.

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit the numbers don’t bother me. The ones around me are all 3 digit. No issue.

The changes stagecoach made in the Lincoln area did. The no.6 (Lincoln -Skegness) becoming the 56 isnt really a big issue on its own. but a lot of these routes have had the same number for 50+ years.

You still look for the old number first then remember. Maybe this time next year no-one will care. It is more difficult for us visitors as I am sure locally lots of publicity would have taken place. For me I found out when i downloaded the timetable to check if the frequency had changed it was the wrong route then needed to find the new number.

 

[AB93]

Reigate's bus routes are 32, 411, 420, 422, 424, 430, 435 and 460. 773 is suspended. 422/424 is a relatively recent invention but reuse of an historic number. 411 replaced 357 recently. Odd remnants of London Country from the days when Surrey had many more bus services. These days, Reigate isn't particularly lucrative bus operating territory sitting between London and Crawley so it really seems strange that it once housed the primary depot of London Country in the area.

I think Reigate's a good example of why numbers do get changed. If you were starting afresh wanting to promote and easy to understand/promote network (which admittedly you can't in Reigate, as it's served only by lengthy, through services that serve umpteen other places), you'd never choose 32, 411, 420, 422, 424, 430, 435 and 460!

 

[carlberry]

I think Reigate's a good example of why numbers do get changed. If you were starting afresh wanting to promote and easy to understand/promote network (which admittedly you can't in Reigate, as it's served only by lengthy, through services that serve umpteen other places), you'd never choose 32, 411, 420, 422, 424, 430, 435 and 460!

Why not? Theres no more difficulty in promoting those products than the products 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. The advantage you have if you leave them alone is that the (at least) 95% of people who already use the network, and know the numbers will carry on using it without issue. The minute you change them people are confused; people write into local papers/complain on Faceache and the people that you're trying to sell the new network to (those you have never used it) just start hearing complaints about the buses always being changed and confusing people; hardly a useful message.

None bus users often give 'constant changes' as a reason that they don't use buses, I'm not aware of anybody that's given the reason 'using three digit numbers'

 

[AM9]

I think Reigate's a good example of why numbers do get changed. If you were starting afresh wanting to promote and easy to understand/promote network (which admittedly you can't in Reigate, as it's served only by lengthy, through services that serve umpteen other places), you'd never choose 32, 411, 420, 422, 424, 430, 435 and 460!

Most bus users are regulars, those that aren't are (usually) quite capable of looking up destinations or asking sombody who does know.

 

[carlberry]

Ah, the 272 and 273, those were Taunton town bus routes (there were only about half a dozen) at that time.

You had to understand the numbers because the destination shown was impacted by, believe it or not, a long-running shortage of the destination blinds, buses would get transferred around between garages regularly but there were no destination blinds available for the locality. What they did have was "shunting blinds", with just a couple of generic lines. So the final destination was "Western National", and the intermediate points were "Service Number", with the numbers able to show 272. If you didn't know your numbers, you were sunk. There was apparently an instruction to conductors on such vehicles to shout out the destination from the platform at each stop. That didn't happen either.

I suspect the shortage of blinds only explains a small percentage of the 'Service' type destinations that were endemic within some Tilling fleets. Mostly it was the driver/conductor not wanting to wind the blind around, especially on short services such as a small town like Taunton. Even having the wrong blind could more often be traced to the engineers not wanting to bother swapping a blind on a transferred vehicle (it's boring and dirty work!).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I suspect the shortage of blinds only explains a small percentage of the 'Service' type destinations that were endemic within some Tilling fleets. Mostly it was the driver/conductor not wanting to wind the blind around, especially on short services such as a small town like Taunton. Even having the wrong blind could more often be traced to the engineers not wanting to bother swapping a blind on a transferred vehicle (it's boring and dirty work!).

I think you're probably right.

My dad's depot had a couple of local services where the blind was set either to the various Estate it ran to OR just the town. Similarly, there were a number of routes that linked my town and another, larger one nearby. Going to the bigger town, the blind invariably had the VIA point version shown. Coming back.... they just had the generic home town shown (which had been duplicated near the top of the blind) rather than wind all the way down to the appropriate part of the blind.

In my dad's case, why waste time scrolling down the blind when you can use the time more productively to roll something else....involving Old Holborn!

 

[AndyW33]

Some Tilling companies had policies that meant if a small depot had a vehicle called in for works overhaul or accident repairs, a replacement would be provided by one of the major depots. Almost inevitably the replacement would not have the correct blind for the small depot's routes. As the loan vehicle would return home as soon as the overhaul was finished, nobody bothered to change over the linens, resulting in "Service" displays. The policy was anathema to National Bus Company senior management when the NBC was created, partly because it made it difficult to assess performance metrics such as number of spares related to PVR at individual depots, and partly because BET companies had not done things this way,and their financial performance appeared better.

When I was moved from a former BET company to a former Tilling one, in a depot management role, and major route changes caused a need for blinds to be replaced or modified, I had the "Service" destination removed altogether, and also added the most common destinations more than once on the roll to reduce winding time. Staff who didn't (or couldn't) display the correct destination then ended up showing the white blank at the end of the roll - which stood out very easily to Inspectors who could then report the lazy or harass the engineers to fit the correct blind according to circumstances. This seemed to work quite well!

 

[Dai Corner]

I’ve not lived in Bristol very long so I’m not that clued up on the history of the buses. What were the Excel routes numbered before they used the ‘X’ prefix?

They were numbered 35x or 36x in line with the rest of the 3xx Bristol Country routes, with a few exceptions such as the X1 (WSM-Bristol limited stop via Long Ashton bypass) and X7 (Clevedon-Bristol limited stop via Failand).

 

[Busaholic]

Ah, the 272 and 273, those were Taunton town bus routes (there were only about half a dozen) at that time.

You had to understand the numbers because the destination shown was impacted by, believe it or not, a long-running shortage of the destination blinds, buses would get transferred around between garages regularly but there were no destination blinds available for the locality. What they did have was "shunting blinds", with just a couple of generic lines. So the final destination was "Western National", and the intermediate points were "Service Number", with the numbers able to show 272. If you didn't know your numbers, you were sunk. There was apparently an instruction to conductors on such vehicles to shout out the destination from the platform at each stop. That didn't happen either.

I seem to remember the Minehead town service was 276 in 1966, still worked by a rear entrance single decker in its final year, The 215 and 218 were the interworked Lodekka services to Bridgwater and Taunton respectively, each every two hours; the 216 went to Lynton and the Porlock bus was 267(?)

TOWN SERVICE was shown on the 276, but it went nowhere near my digs up a steep hill!

 

[JGurney]

the prefix indicated a flat fare route, then a rarity outside the Red Arrow routes.

Yes, I remember the first flat fare routes being introduced, with the letter prefix intended to distinguish them from other services. It was after all London buses had became flat fare that letter prefixes started getting applied to other routes, some of them new like the R68, some re-numberings of long-established routes such as the 202 becoming the H22, leading to the current random-looking mixture of prefixed and unprefixed numbers.

 

[carlberry]

They were numbered 35x or 36x in line with the rest of the 3xx Bristol Country routes, with a few exceptions such as the X1 (WSM-Bristol limited stop via Long Ashton bypass) and X7 (Clevedon-Bristol limited stop via Failand).

If only it was that easy!

I'm sure that TGW will fill in any bits I've missed however the whole thing has been a combination of First's love for tinkering and some OCD from their marketing department. The Bristol country services were renumbered in 1967 into the 3xx series and the services to Weston/Clevedon/Portishead/Nailsea were all in the 35x and 36x series. The only real change to this over the years has been the arrival of the X1 which, as the X suggests, was an express route.

At some point First decided that they'd renumber the Portishead services as X2 and X3 as a big launch with lots of publicity. (The X being related to the marketing message 'Express yourself, but not using the initial letter obviously).

At some other point somebody decided that the Weston service being the 352 wasn't exciting enough so they renumbered it the 1 (because the express version was the X1). Some time after this happened, and after numerous issues with people trying to get on the wrong bus, the message finally got through that having two service 1s from the same company leaving from the same stop (in Bristol city centre) but going to different places wasn't a great idea and the Weston service became the W1.

The X7 used to be an express services to Clevedon however it had been dropped at some point and First decided to change the number of their Chepstow service to use it (as it crosses the SeveRn)

Later on it was decided to market all of the services in the area as the 'Excel' network (but again First didn't like Es). The problem with this was that First's OCD cut in again so (to get enough numbers in a row) their existing X7 service was renamed as the Severn Express however this didn't fit their systems properly so, online, they called it the 7XP which you had to use if you wanted to find it for the rest of it's existence. They also wanted the Weston services together so the W1 became the X2 and the X2 became the X4. Despite this for the following two years several bus stops on the Portishead road had large posters advertising the previous versions that were left over from the previous marketing push!

Once the initial pattern for Excel had been setup First decided to start changing it however didn't have any more numbers they could use so services such as X3A and X1X started appearing so basically back to three digits but nothing like the previous ones.

Despite the number of years that have passed it's still possible to find lots of websites that refer to the previous numbers in their 'how to get to us' section, and Bristol City Council decided they couldn't be bothered keeping up so several of their bus stops still show the original numbers on the actual bus stop sign.

There are rumours that the buses on the Excel services are being replaced in the near future so I expect that there will be another round of number changes, because that's how to keep your existing users happy!

 

[Dai Corner]

If only it was that easy!

I'm sure that TGW will fill in any bits I've missed however the whole thing has been a combination of First's love for tinkering and some OCD from their marketing department. The Bristol country services were renumbered in 1967 into the 3xx series and the services to Weston/Clevedon/Portishead/Nailsea were all in the 35x and 36x series. The only real change to this over the years has been the arrival of the X1 which, as the X suggests, was an express route.

At some point First decided that they'd renumber the Portishead services as X2 and X3 as a big launch with lots of publicity. (The X being related to the marketing message 'Express yourself, but not using the initial letter obviously).

At some other point somebody decided that the Weston service being the 352 wasn't exciting enough so they renumbered it the 1 (because the express version was the X1). Some time after this happened, and after numerous issues with people trying to get on the wrong bus, the message finally got through that having two service 1s from the same company leaving from the same stop (in Bristol city centre) but going to different places wasn't a great idea and the Weston service became the W1.

The X7 used to be an express services to Clevedon however it had been dropped at some point and First decided to change the number of their Chepstow service to use it (as it crosses the SeveRn)

Later on it was decided to market all of the services in the area as the 'Excel' network (but again First didn't like Es). The problem with this was that First's OCD cut in again so (to get enough numbers in a row) their existing X7 service was renamed as the Severn Express however this didn't fit their systems properly so, online, they called it the 7XP which you had to use if you wanted to find it for the rest of it's existence. They also wanted the Weston services together so the W1 became the X2 and the X2 became the X4. Despite this for the following two years several bus stops on the Portishead road had large posters advertising the previous versions that were left over from the previous marketing push!

Once the initial pattern for Excel had been setup First decided to start changing it however didn't have any more numbers they could use so services such as X3A and X1X started appearing so basically back to three digits but nothing like the previous ones.

Despite the number of years that have passed it's still possible to find lots of websites that refer to the previous numbers in their 'how to get to us' section, and Bristol City Council decided they couldn't be bothered keeping up so several of their bus stops still show the original numbers on the actual bus stop sign.

There are rumours that the buses on the Excel services are being replaced in the near future so I expect that there will be another round of number changes, because that's how to keep your existing users happy!

Thanks for your detailed reply, Carl.

Another complication was that Avon County Council (1974-1996) decided they'd number their supported services as 6xx instead of 3xx. So on evenings and Sundays the route and (often) operator would be the same as weekdays but the number different (300 greater).

Oh, that was just for 'country' services. Bristol city supported services had 500 added instead.

To get back on topic, presumably Avon didn't think higher numbers put passengers off!

 

[Taunton]

In university times I had moved on from Somerset to Edinburgh. There everyone seemed to know the city bus routes by number (just 1 to 49), and to a considerable extent where they went, but for the "country" Eastern Scottish buses they might as well have not bothered with numbers - and quite often didn't. They couldn't show many of the large number of potential destinations from Edinburgh either, but invariably used paper stickers put inside the nearside windscreen, with Edinburgh shown on the blind, which sufficed for going back and forth all day. At the garage exit there was a huge box with all the preprinted destination stickers, must have been 100 of them, which the conductors would grab on their way out.

Over in Glasgow there were just a couple of short-distance suburban shuttle routes, which had a novel approach where the destination had, squashed in on a single line, one end of the route in ever-decreasing letters, and tapered underneath in ever-increasing letters the other end. This meant it never had to be changed all day, but the passengers did need to have a good pair of spectacles.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If only it was that easy!

I'm sure that TGW will fill in any bits I've missed however the whole thing has been a combination of First's love for tinkering and some OCD from their marketing department. The Bristol country services were renumbered in 1967 into the 3xx series and the services to Weston/Clevedon/Portishead/Nailsea were all in the 35x and 36x series. The only real change to this over the years has been the arrival of the X1 which, as the X suggests, was an express route.

At some point First decided that they'd renumber the Portishead services as X2 and X3 as a big launch with lots of publicity. (The X being related to the marketing message 'Express yourself, but not using the initial letter obviously).

At some other point somebody decided that the Weston service being the 352 wasn't exciting enough so they renumbered it the 1 (because the express version was the X1). Some time after this happened, and after numerous issues with people trying to get on the wrong bus, the message finally got through that having two service 1s from the same company leaving from the same stop (in Bristol city centre) but going to different places wasn't a great idea and the Weston service became the W1.

The X7 used to be an express services to Clevedon however it had been dropped at some point and First decided to change the number of their Chepstow service to use it (as it crosses the SeveRn)

Later on it was decided to market all of the services in the area as the 'Excel' network (but again First didn't like Es). The problem with this was that First's OCD cut in again so (to get enough numbers in a row) their existing X7 service was renamed as the Severn Express however this didn't fit their systems properly so, online, they called it the 7XP which you had to use if you wanted to find it for the rest of it's existence. They also wanted the Weston services together so the W1 became the X2 and the X2 became the X4. Despite this for the following two years several bus stops on the Portishead road had large posters advertising the previous versions that were left over from the previous marketing push!

Once the initial pattern for Excel had been setup First decided to start changing it however didn't have any more numbers they could use so services such as X3A and X1X started appearing so basically back to three digits but nothing like the previous ones.

Despite the number of years that have passed it's still possible to find lots of websites that refer to the previous numbers in their 'how to get to us' section, and Bristol City Council decided they couldn't be bothered keeping up so several of their bus stops still show the original numbers on the actual bus stop sign.

There are rumours that the buses on the Excel services are being replaced in the near future so I expect that there will be another round of number changes, because that's how to keep your existing users happy!

I think that's mainly right but you forgot another added complication....

When the Chepstow service was renumbered from X7 to SEV or 7XP (it appeared in different formats according to First or the local authority), they didn't then use the number immediately. Instead, the relevant Clevedon service was renumbered as the X6A for about 6 months before it was then able to assume the X7 moniker. I seem to recall the same thing happened with the X2 renumbered as the X4 and so the W1 became the X1A for some months before it assumed the X2 number

Avon CC did indeed have a scheme (as did Cleveland) of having different numbers for their supported services. Hence 5** for Bristol, 6** for North Somerset, 7** for Bath and 8** for Weston - so you could stand in Wells on a Sunday and instead of your 126 or 173, it was 826 or 773. Of course, some of these service number "traits" still persist with a number of supported services in Bath still with 7** numbers and various 5** and 6** services in Bristol

 

[MotCO]

Avon CC did indeed have a scheme (as did Cleveland) of having different numbers for their supported services. Hence 5** for Bristol, 6** for North Somerset, 7** for Bath and 8** for Weston - so you could stand in Wells on a Sunday and instead of your 126 or 173, it was 826 or 773. Of course, some of these service number "traits" still persist with a number of supported services in Bath still with 7** numbers and various 5** and 6** services in Bristol

I think Surrey CC did something similar as well. The normal route would have a '5' if it was a supported route. Hence say route 424 ran during the day, but 524 would run in the evenings when it was supported (only given as an example -I don't know if it is a real example.)

 

[JonathanH]

The only real change to this over the years has been the arrival of the X1 which, as the X suggests, was an express route.

810 for a while in the early 1980s I think (not part of the Avon scheme which was later).

(Even a picture to back that up - not mine https://www.flickr.com/photos/28431353@N02/6155922126/) Bath to Bristol was 809 https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/i...product_id=177716&category_id=17_27_39&page=9.

I found my April 1981 NBC principal routes map earlier. It is intriguing to see which numbers are still the same around the country, which have lost leading digits and which have been renumbered completely. There is simply no pattern whatsoever as to how the three digit numbers seem to have evolved over time.

 

[nw1]

Aged 12 I could understand numbers like, say, 271 and 408, so I presume older people could.

My earliest memories were in the heyday of three-digit route numbers in the late NBC days. Interesting that since privatisation there was a gradual lowering of numbers. In early privatisation days some of the three-digit numbers remained but two-digit numbers also became common place. However route number duplication was rare; the two digits were enabled by old NBC companies splitting into smaller companies (e.g. Alder Valley (NBC) -> Alder Valley South + The Bee Line) which allowed more usage of lower numbers without duplication within a single company.

Then, later into privatisation (during the 90s) single-digits became more fashionable. This had the side effect of the same company having duplicate numbers in different towns. For example the Hampshire division of Stagecoach has a 1 in Winchester, in Andover and in Basingstoke. While none of these overlap, personally I find that very messy.

Going back further from my earliest (around 1983/84) memories it looks like lower numbers - in addition to higher numbers - were a little more fashionable in the 70s than they were in the early/mid 80s. About 1980-85 seemed to be the very height of three-digit fashion. For example in the 70s apparently the Reading and High Wycombe area Alder Valley services had low single digits, which were then renumbered into three-digit series around 1980.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jan 2022 ==

I think Surrey CC did something similar as well. The normal route would have a '5' if it was a supported route. Hence say route 424 ran during the day, but 524 would run in the evenings when it was supported (only given as an example -I don't know if it is a real example.)

Yes, this definitely occurred, starting at deregulation on 26/10/86.

219 and 519 was one real example, also (slightly strangely perhaps) 268 and 523, explained by the fact that the Farnham/Aldershot town section of the 523 was on the old pre-deregulation 223 route.

 

[JonathanH]

For example in the 70s apparently the Reading and High Wycombe area Alder Valley services had low single digits, which were then renumbered into three-digit series around 1980.

Yes, Thames Valley had low numbers as did Aldershot & District. Some time around 1980 the numbering was changed to make the numbers unique (although notably the 5 from Reading to Oxford worked jointly with Oxford didn't become 105 until Reading Transport bought the Reading and Newbury operations in 1992).

The High Wycombe numbers were consistent with the 3xx numbers also used by London & Country in the area.

 

[nw1]

Yes, Thames Valley had low numbers as did Aldershot & District. Some time around 1980 the numbering was changed to make the numbers unique (although notably the 5 from Reading to Oxford worked jointly with Oxford didn't become 105 until Reading Transport bought the Reading and Newbury operations in 1992).

The High Wycombe numbers were consistent with the 3xx numbers also used by London & Country in the area.

I think (from what I can make out from sources such as Flickr bus and coach photos) the numbers were already unique even before the 1980 renumbering. The low numbers were in the Reading area with the old A+D part of Alder Valley already in the 2xx series.

For example I've seen photos of the 1 (Reading-Maidenhead) and the 220 and 290 (Guildford area) from 1979, and I have a distinct memory of travelling on a 219 (Aldershot-Midhurst) also in 1979 - a few years before I actually started taking notice of buses in any detail.

The most satisfying numbering schemes IMO were those old very logical ones which started at 1 and went all the way up to say 4xx or even higher, which came up on a previous thread last summer. Badgerline retained this to some extent post-privatisation though was a bit ruined by the messy (IMO) duplication of low route numbers in Bath and Weston-super-Mare.

 

[JonathanH]

Here is a scan of the South East area of the 'Principal Bus Links' map of April 1981 and a broadly contemporary map of Reading area Alder Valley services (complete with amendments I made at a young age). The former shows a fairly incoherent set of low and multiple digit numbers. It is interesting to see how some have changed and some remain the same.



PS I might try scanning them again later to improve the clarity.

 

[randyrippley]

I always look forward to my trips on the 555 from Windermere to Keswick.

What's in a number? The Swiss bus timetables (in their National Rail timetable) are numbered like the Dewey Decimal system in my 1991 copy, but I think lots of the actual routes/services have other smaller local numbers - but some were in 4 digits!

but would you ride it if it was numbered 666?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jan 2022 ==

Who needs numbers anyway?
When I was a kid living near Yeovil, none of the local independents used them.
Wakes, Safeway, Hutchings & Cornelius, Brutonian, Pearce Darch & Wilcox just used destination blinds. Nobody needed namby pamby numbers to tell them which bus to catch. Just get on the correct colour bus with the correct driver at the correct time.
Numbers were a strange imported idea only used by Western National

--edit--
It's worth remembering that back in the 1960s in Somerset adult literacy couldn't be assumed

 

[RuddA]

When visiting my wife's family in Warsaw it is never a problem having 3 digit bus numbers, with 1 & 2 digit numbers being for trams.
Bit confusing when her town changed from zone 2 to zone 1 so the terminating buses had to change number.

Public transport step by step

This brief guide for passengers outlines the basic rules related with the functioning of and using the Warsaw public transport. These rules described herein are meant to assist passengers, however they do not release anyone from the obligation to read the additional provisions and the...

www.wtp.waw.pl

 

[Citistar]

I personally prefer the system i grew up with (around Avon), as many of us probably do - 1 and 2 digit numbers for urban services, 3 digits for interurban and rural routes. The only problem with this was the number of drivers who would still refuse to carry urban passengers on a longer service, something which persisted well in to this millenium despite never having been part of the local travel regs since 1986 and never referred to on timetables.

For the moment at least, i also run one of the very few four digit numbered public routes left in the country.

 

[JonathanH]

The only problem with this was the number of drivers who would still refuse to carry urban passengers on a longer service, something which persisted well in to this millenium despite never having been part of the local travel regs since 1986 and never referred to on timetables.

Sometimes that is understandable if there is limited capacity and a local service on much of the same route.

When I lived within walking distance of Bear Flat in Bath some of the drivers of buses on the Radstock routes weren't keen on picking up passengers there. I think there were some old hands who worked the same service roster every day on the 176 / 184 routes.

At one time the city rover for Bath had been valid on all the country routes except those on the routes via Peasedown but that changed around 1998.

 

[Citistar]

When I lived within walking distance of Bear Flat in Bath some of the drivers of buses on the Radstock routes weren't keen on picking up passengers there. I think there were some old hands who worked the same service roster every day on the 176 / 184 routes.

Yeah, precisely the corridor i had in mind!

At one time the city rover for Bath had been valid on all the country routes except those on the routes via Peasedown but that changed around 1998.

If that were the case, i've never come across that as being made known to passengers. I'll have to take a look through some fare books of the era and see if it is mentioned in there.

 

[Dai Corner]

For the moment at least, i also run one of the very few four digit numbered public routes left in the country.

I have to ask; why did you number it 1011? And do you say it 'one oh one one' or 'ten eleven'?

 

[galwhv69]

Not usually, however there may be a few anomalies such as the 969 in London (only route with a number above 699)

 

[RT4038]

Sometimes that is understandable if there is limited capacity and a local service on much of the same route.

When I lived within walking distance of Bear Flat in Bath some of the drivers of buses on the Radstock routes weren't keen on picking up passengers there. I think there were some old hands who worked the same service roster every day on the 176 / 184 routes.

At one time the city rover for Bath had been valid on all the country routes except those on the routes via Peasedown but that changed around 1998.

I think you will probably find that the longer distance passengers give the drivers plenty of earache if they stop for 'city service' passengers too!