Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[Chris125]

From what I understand from recent comments, they've removed the 12.30 path which was specifically for training, they still guzzle fuel and now no training till January. It gives me the impression they're not top of the priority list. I see 197s out more

Reliability has improved, training has progressed, and it seems there'll be a fuelling point at Birkenhead North which should presumably address the operational issues with fuel usage - sounds encouraging to me?

 

[D821]

Are they going to be kept at BHN or just fueled there when they need to be?

 

[wobman]

Are they going to be kept at BHN or just fueled there when they need to be?

Birkenhead North depot will be the home for the 230s, Chester is too busy and Wrexham is unsuitable. The fueling was a major issue and a fuel road is what is needed a Birkenhead North ASAP. Whilst the training is ongoing they will be a regular sight at Chester though, there's still 2/3 of the depot to rain up on them!

 

[Wyrleybart]

The 197s have access to more paths on the N Wales coast and there's 2 lots of drivers testing them, caf use rog drivers and tfw use DIs plus there's going to 77 of the 197s accross more routes so they are a bigger priority than the 5 x 230's.

Tfw are plowing on with ghe 230's trying their best to get them into service, the reliability and fuel consumption is out of the hands of tfw. Vivarail are the ones to resolve them ongoing issues.....

As time draws on, I more and more wonder why Vivarail didn't temporarily configure 230001 to the same standard as the TfW batch, then run it over the route for a month to establish suitablility, fuel consumption etc. Obviously it will never happen now as Vivarail have abandoned using diesel engines for future projects, leaving TfW in somewhat of a pig in a poke.

 

[Bob Price]

Path booked today for a 230 to come from Birkenhead to Crewe. Guess another tyre turning run. It's hasn't run however but I will keep an eye on the schedules.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Dec 2021 ==

006 headed back to Birkenhead today, just passed Crewe on 5Q55. There is a path booked back so wondering if another unit is heading in for attention.

 

[D821]

230007 was at BHN when I went past this morning, couldn't see what was there this evening.

 

[wobman]

It's the 230's last week of traincrew training this week until January

 

[TheSel]

It's the 230's last week of traincrew training this week until January

Given the recent Covid announcements, it could be the last week of training until ... well, much, much later than that!

 

[wobman]

Given the recent Covid announcements, it could be the last week of training until ... well, much, much later than that!

We will Have to see what the Welsh government say, tfw follow there regulations. Maybe training bubbles return or worse training ceases again........

 

[D821]

All three are at BHN this morning, 1 inside, two outside.

 

[Zontar]

Does anyone know if Dec timetable change is allowing for more 230 driver training to take place?

 

[wobman]

Does anyone know if Dec timetable change is allowing for more 230 driver training to take place?

No driver training for a while, tfw have very high sick levels due to covid. So the DIs are back driving trains until late January and then it's drivers having refresher courses on the 230's. Some drivers learnt them in April and not actually driven one since ! Tfw want them in service ASAP the latest plan is by May timetable.

 

[Zontar]

No driver training for a while, tfw have very high sick levels due to covid. So the DIs are back driving trains until late January and then it's drivers having refresher courses on the 230's. Some drivers learnt them in April and not actually driven one since ! Tfw want them in service ASAP the latest plan is by May timetable.

Is may realistic?

 

[allaction]

Are TfW paying full leasing costs for the 230’s during this prolonged period of modifications and testing, or are Vivarail taking the full effect of the hit, or is there a leasing company involved?

Asking for an anxious Welsh taxpayer friend….

Please don’t tell me we’ve gone and bought the blimmin’ things…

 

[wobman]

Are TfW paying full leasing costs for the 230’s during this prolonged period of modifications and testing, or are Vivarail taking the full effect of the hit, or is there a leasing company involved?

Asking for an anxious Welsh taxpayer friend….

Please don’t tell me we’ve gone and bought the blimmin’ things…

It's probably a very complicated contract, with numerous clauses etc I've heard the ongoing bill is quite big for these 230's. If vivarail were paying the bills they would have gone bankrupt long ago.......

 

[43096]

Are TfW paying full leasing costs for the 230’s during this prolonged period of modifications and testing, or are Vivarail taking the full effect of the hit, or is there a leasing company involved?

Asking for an anxious Welsh taxpayer friend….

Please don’t tell me we’ve gone and bought the blimmin’ things…

TfW own the 230s.

 

[Zontar]

TfW own the 230s.

Why did they buy them if they still keep getting faults or are unreliable? Doesn't make sense

 

[allaction]

TfW own the 230s.

Thanks for this. *sobs*

 

[wobman]

Why did they buy them if they still keep getting faults or are unreliable? Doesn't make sense

That's something one of the vivarail experts on here can answer, it's baffled many people why tfw would purchase them.......

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That's something one of the vivarail experts on here can answer, it's baffled many people why tfw would purchase them.......

Could there be any redress in law that TfW could make an application for?

 

[wobman]

Could there be any redress in law that TfW could make an application for?

It's probably all to do what's written into the rolling stock contract with vivarail, you would hope there was proper scrutiny of the said contract before it was signed!

 

[Wyrleybart]

Could there be any redress in law that TfW could make an application for?

I guess it is tricky. Land Vivarail with serious financial implications from a court case which might put them out of business, then who provides the aftercare for your 230s ?

 

[Zontar]

I guess it is tricky. Land Vivarail with serious financial implications from a court case which might put them out of business, then who provides the aftercare for your 230s ?

If they're not working or capable of running a service reliably, then it's fairly irrelevant.

I suspect a long legal case before this is settled if they don't sort the issues.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If they're not working or capable of running a service reliably, then it's fairly irrelevant.

I suspect a long legal case before this is settled if they don't sort the issues.

I wonder if those USA people behind their Vivarail project will be somewhat annoyed at the poor reputation Vivarail is gradually building up over the last few years in Britain.

How many Vivarail units are currently in active revenue services in any of their areas?

 

[Zontar]

I wonder if those USA people behind their Vivarail project will be somewhat annoyed at the poor reputation Vivarail is gradually building up over the last few years in Britain.

How many Vivarail units are currently in active revenue services in any of their areas?

Working as they should be?.....I can only assume that's the Isle of Wight. But these were heavily delayed going into service.

 

[allaction]

I guess it is tricky. Land Vivarail with serious financial implications from a court case which might put them out of business, then who provides the aftercare for your 230s ?

The alternative being that it’s the taxpayers (that’s you and me) that get clobbered….

 

[wobman]

The alternative being that it’s the taxpayers (that’s you and me) that get clobbered….

I've heard tfw have asked stadler about the maintenance contract, VivaRail charge very high rates and at Birkenhead North depot stadler shutters are soon being trained on the 230's for shunting as the ROG drivers cost a lot to shunt the units.

006 ans 010 are still sitting at crewe waiting for mods and there's not enough room at Birkenhead for all 5 units to stable !

The 230's are by far the most expensive units to run and maintain cost per mile in tfws fleet, this is very concerning that all they have only been doing training runs. Also they haven't restarted training on the 230's yet due to very high covid absence levels and a reduced timetable.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I suspect that while Covid is/could-be a factor then there is nothing fruitful to be gained from a legal dispute.

 

[Roger B]

I've heard tfw have asked stadler about the maintenance contract, VivaRail charge very high rates and at Birkenhead North depot stadler shutters are soon being trained on the 230's for shunting as the ROG drivers cost a lot to shunt the units.

006 ans 010 are still sitting at crewe waiting for mods and there's not enough room at Birkenhead for all 5 units to stable !

The 230's are by far the most expensive units to run and maintain cost per mile in tfws fleet, this is very concerning that all they have only been doing training runs. Also they haven't restarted training on the 230's yet due to very high covid absence levels and a reduced timetable.

Thanks Wobman. Whereabouts in Crewe are 006/010 stabled - are they visible / identifiable from passing trains, please? Many thanks

 

[wobman]

Thanks Wobman. Whereabouts in Crewe are 006/010 stabled - are they visible / identifiable from passing trains, please? Many thanks

Inside the arriva traincare Shed, 010 is visible from the wcml crewe to Stafford route quite easily.