Class 1 versus Class 2….

[Western 52]

I notice that there seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency when it comes to assigning trains as either class 1 or class 2.

A class 1 train is supposed to be a service with limited stops – an express service.

A class 2 train is supposed to be a service with has regular calls – an all stations or a semi-fast service.

Here are some examples from my local area to illustrate what I mean by inconsistency:-

2B39 1850 Carmarthen to Cardiff Central – class 2, but does not stop at 9 of the intermediate stations. 2B73 2108 Cardiff Central to Carmarthen is similar. Both these trains are therefore fairly fast services, especially between Swansea and Cardiff.

1B64 1711 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central – class 1, but stops at all except 3 of the intermediate stations, far more than the class 2 trains above. 1B53 0632 Cardiff Central to Pembroke Dock is similar to 1B64 with only 3 stops not made. These trains are slower between Cardiff and Swansea due to the many additional stops they make.

So how are the class numbers assigned? Operationally, is there any difference between classes 1 and 2, such as priority given at junctions, etc?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Since the Dec ‘04 SWT turntable recast the Brockenhurst to Lymington shuttles have been 1Jxx even though they serve all stations.

 

[43055]

I notice that there seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency when it comes to assigning trains as either class 1 or class 2.

A class 1 train is supposed to be a service with limited stops – an express service.

A class 2 train is supposed to be a service with has regular calls – an all stations or a semi-fast service.

Here are some examples from my local area to illustrate what I mean by inconsistency:-

2B39 1850 Carmarthen to Cardiff Central – class 2, but does not stop at 9 of the intermediate stations. 2B73 2108 Cardiff Central to Carmarthen is similar. Both these trains are therefore fairly fast services, especially between Swansea and Cardiff.

1B64 1711 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central – class 1, but stops at all except 3 of the intermediate stations, far more than the class 2 trains above. 1B53 0632 Cardiff Central to Pembroke Dock is similar to 1B64 with only 3 stops not made. These trains are slower between Cardiff and Swansea due to the many additional stops they make.

So how are the class numbers assigned? Operationally, is there any difference between classes 1 and 2, such as priority given at junctions, etc?

The two class 1's might have extra stops due to other services not running. I believe there was a two hourly 'shuttle' between Swansea and Cardiff but RTT doesn't show it running at the moment.

At one point it was suggested that the Crewe - Derby service was a class 1 (1Kxx) due to the junction at Kidsgrove (where it joins to the Manchester - Stoke line) to allow it to have better priority onto the main line. Clearly this must re resolved now as all the services towards Nottingham and Newark are either 2Nxx or 2Axx while the Crewe services retain the 1Kxx headcode.

 

[class 9]

These days whether you're class 1 or 2 is largely irrelevant, as a Driver of class 1s, delays on a daily basis from late running class 2s.
The days of expresses getting priority are largely gone.

 

[Llanigraham]

The class designation can also be used as a routing reminder at some Signal Boxes.

 

[swt_passenger]

I can’t remember exactly where it was, somewhere in the south, but I remember someone highlighting that a particular service was class 1 in one direction and class 2 in the other.

But as the name of the previous poster @class 9 reminds me, there are plenty of areas where classes 1 and 2 are potentially both lower priority than class 9…

I suspect the distinction has been blurring gradually for so long that the simple definitions in post#1 are no longer adequate.

 

[CAF397]

Northern 1Y/1N** Airport services stop at more stations between Preston and Manchester than their 2H/2N** Hazel Grove services!

 

[class 9]

I can’t remember exactly where it was, somewhere in the south, but I remember someone highlighting that a particular service was class 1 in one direction and class 2 in the other.

But as the name of the previous poster @class 9 reminds me, there are plenty of areas where classes 1 and 2 are potentially both lower priority than class 9…

I suspect the distinction has been blurring gradually for so long that the simple definitions in post#1 are no longer adequate.

Class 9s are services that if delayed can cause considerable knock on delays.
It still amuses me that class 9s get priorty as when I started as a freight guard they were loose coupled goods, max speed 25mph!!!

 

[IceBlue]

At one point it was suggested that the Crewe - Derby service was a class 1 (1Kxx) due to the junction at Kidsgrove (where it joins to the Manchester - Stoke line) to allow it to have better priority onto the main line. Clearly this must re resolved now as all the services towards Nottingham and Newark are either 2Nxx or 2Axx while the Crewe services retain the 1Kxx headcode.

Always wondered why this was the case. Is the idea that once clear of the WCML a late running eastbound service is unlikely to cause too many knock on issues in Derby/Nottingham, whereas if a westbound service misses the path at Stoke Junction, in my experience at least it will get held for the XC and VT Manchester services (likely causing a 10+ minute delay), so it is given class 1 is with the intention of getting onto the North Staffs line without unnecessary delay in Derby?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Class 9s are services that if delayed can cause considerable knock on delays.
It still amuses me that class 9s get priorty as when I started as a freight guard they were loose coupled goods, max speed 25mph!!!

Class 9 is used to draw attention to something about the specific service, not necessarily just delay-related. On the GWML the Paddington-Cardiff services operated by Class 387s are 9Bxx (dn) & 9Lxx (up) to remind signallers that they are not bi-modes and therefore cannot be diverted off the wires, unlike 80x which can be. Therefore in this case, class 9 has no higher prioritisation than the surrounding class 1s, as it is not related to regulation.

 

[Horizon22]

Class 9 is used to draw attention to something about the specific service, not necessarily just delay-related. On the GWML the Paddington-Cardiff services operated by Class 387s are 9Bxx (dn) & 9Lxx (up) to remind signallers that they are not bi-modes and therefore cannot be diverted off the wires, unlike 80x which can be. Therefore in this case, class 9 has no higher prioritisation than the surrounding class 1s, as it is not related to regulation.

Whilst true, I do not think that was the original intention of class 9 trains.

London Overground, Thameslink, TfL Rail and Eurostar are also class 9s. Some stations in South London (Peckham Rye comes to mind) have multiple class 9s from different operators. The original ‘higher’ priority has been lost in recent years (as has the distinction between 1xxx & 2xxx in places).

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Whilst true, I do not think that was the original intention of class 9 trains.

London Overground, Thameslink, TfL Rail and Eurostar are also class 9s

Not all London Overground or TfL rail, only the ELL services and TfL rail services on Western are class 9's.

In fact most London Overground services are Class 2.

 

[Horizon22]

Not all London Overground or TfL rail, only the ELL services and TfL rail services on Western are class 9's.

In fact most London Overground services are Class 2.

Yes there’s certainly an inconsistency, which is what I suppose the point the OP was trying to make.

 

[Peter0124]

This service is non-stop to Aberdeen yet has a class 2 headcode:

Realtime Trains | 2A01 0642 Dundee to Aberdeen | 03/01/2022

Real-time train running information for 2A01 0642 departure from Dundee to Aberdeen on 03/01/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Yes there’s certainly an inconsistency, which is what I suppose the point the OP was trying to make.

When you look at the services that are class 9's it does sort of follow a pattern:

Thameslink services that run through the core,
ELL services,
Avanti services via Birmingham New Street,
TPE services from Newcastle to Liverpool Lime Street,
Crossrail services,
Eurostar,
Class 387 services going to Bristol Parkway or Cardiff Central,

In total they are all sort of unique groups of services that either run through some very congested areas eg. Avanti via Birmingham New Street, Thameslink, Crossrail and ELL services which have set booked time they most run through their respecitve cores, Eurostar for obvious reasons and TPE services are again long cross route services, it does help the signaller with identifying services and the consequences of potential regulation.

The real main reason though is that we are slowly running out of headcodes which is why class 9's are being used more widely.

I do wonder if, potentially in the long term Class 8's are going to be around for much longer. The only things booked to run as class 8's are anti icer trains and then any STP or VSTP movements for specific low speed services.

 

[IceBlue]

Whilst true, I do not think that was the original intention of class 9 trains.

London Overground, Thameslink, TfL Rail and Eurostar are also class 9s. Some stations in South London (Peckham Rye comes to mind) have multiple class 9s from different operators. The original ‘higher’ priority has been lost in recent years (as has the distinction between 1xxx & 2xxx in places).

I remember reading that Eurostar use 9O[Oscar]xx and 9I[India]xx headcodes, as (at least for London services) they use 90[Zero]xx and 91[One]xx numbers in the continent.

 

[LowLevel]

The two class 1's might have extra stops due to other services not running. I believe there was a two hourly 'shuttle' between Swansea and Cardiff but RTT doesn't show it running at the moment.

At one point it was suggested that the Crewe - Derby service was a class 1 (1Kxx) due to the junction at Kidsgrove (where it joins to the Manchester - Stoke line) to allow it to have better priority onto the main line. Clearly this must re resolved now as all the services towards Nottingham and Newark are either 2Nxx or 2Axx while the Crewe services retain the 1Kxx headcode.

It is for the crossing timings at Alsager, Radway Green and Barthomley Junction on the down or something like that. Mitigates a station overrun/SPAD risk by making the signalling system think it's a non stopper or something along those lines. It has been explained a few times so my detail might be wrong but that's the gist of it.

 

[Watershed]

I notice that there seems to be quite a bit of inconsistency when it comes to assigning trains as either class 1 or class 2.

A class 1 train is supposed to be a service with limited stops – an express service.

A class 2 train is supposed to be a service with has regular calls – an all stations or a semi-fast service.

Here are some examples from my local area to illustrate what I mean by inconsistency:-

2B39 1850 Carmarthen to Cardiff Central – class 2, but does not stop at 9 of the intermediate stations. 2B73 2108 Cardiff Central to Carmarthen is similar. Both these trains are therefore fairly fast services, especially between Swansea and Cardiff.

1B64 1711 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central – class 1, but stops at all except 3 of the intermediate stations, far more than the class 2 trains above. 1B53 0632 Cardiff Central to Pembroke Dock is similar to 1B64 with only 3 stops not made. These trains are slower between Cardiff and Swansea due to the many additional stops they make.

So how are the class numbers assigned? Operationally, is there any difference between classes 1 and 2, such as priority given at junctions, etc?

Nominally, class 1 is an express passenger service and class 2 is a stopping/ordinary passenger service. However over recent years, so many service groups and trains have been introduced as exceptions to the rule, that it is now little more than a very rough rule of thumb.

For example EMR's Newark-Crewe service is a class 1 in the westbound direction and a class 2 in the eastbound direction. There's no difference in the calling patterns.

TPE's Liverpool-Newcastle services is a class 1 in the northeast bound direction and a class 9 in the southwest bound direction. Again, no difference in the calling patterns.

With an increasing number of service groups being joined up - often across traditional regional boundaries - the use of class 9 has expanded to allow services to remain easily identifiable by signallers etc.

 

[Horizon22]

When you look at the services that are class 9's it does sort of follow a pattern:

Thameslink services that run through the core,
ELL services,
Avanti services via Birmingham New Street,
TPE services from Newcastle to Liverpool Lime Street,
Crossrail services,
Eurostar,
Class 387 services going to Bristol Parkway or Cardiff Central,

In total they are all sort of unique groups of services that either run through some very congested areas eg. Avanti via Birmingham New Street, Thameslink, Crossrail and ELL services which have set booked time they most run through their respecitve cores, Eurostar for obvious reasons and TPE services are again long cross route services, it does help the signaller with identifying services and the consequences of potential regulation.

The real main reason though is that we are slowly running out of headcodes which is why class 9's are being used more widely.

I do wonder if, potentially in the long term Class 8's are going to be around for much longer. The only things booked to run as class 8's are anti icer trains and then any STP or VSTP movements for specific low speed services.

Yes the point is bold is generally what is happening, as the network has become more utilised and additional services have run from other oeprators, its made sense to make some distinction albeit not the original one.

 

[87015]

Yes the point is bold is generally what is happening, as the network has become more utilised and additional services have run from other oeprators, its made sense to make some distinction albeit not the original one.

It’s not though is it, anyone can ask to use 9 for anything and unlikely to be descent, reasons from “why not” upwards.

 

[Falcon1200]

I have believed for a long time that only having Classes 1 and 2 (plus 9 for specific cases as above) for passenger trains is too restrictive, and leads to absurdities, such as, for example: Two Class 1 trains from Glasgow Central in the evening, one being a 125mph 400 mile service to London and the other a 50mph EMU to Neilston (Class 1 as it omits a few stops) ! I would prefer; Class 1 for long distance true express trains, Class 2 for medium distance or limited stop suburban services, and Class 3 for all-stations locals. Plus Class 9 for the reasons given above.

These days whether you're class 1 or 2 is largely irrelevant, as a Driver of class 1s, delays on a daily basis from late running class 2s.
The days of expresses getting priority are largely gone.

Signalling Centres work to strict Regulating Statements, which are agreed in advance and are designed to minimise overall delay; And where trains are having to be regulated because one or more is running out of course, whatever decision is made will delay, and displease, someone !

 

[vlad]

Always wondered why this was the case. Is the idea that once clear of the WCML a late running eastbound service is unlikely to cause too many knock on issues in Derby/Nottingham, whereas if a westbound service misses the path at Stoke Junction, in my experience at least it will get held for the XC and VT Manchester services (likely causing a 10+ minute delay), so it is given class 1 is with the intention of getting onto the North Staffs line without unnecessary delay in Derby?

From personal experience a westbound Derby to Crewe train does have to wait at Stoke for a late-running Manchester train, presumably to allow connections. However, as the turnaround time at Crewe is only 5 minutes (which is way less than that station's minimum connection time), that tends to mean that the train is then cancelled Stoke - Crewe - Stoke to avoid causing issues to any other services.

Not that I'm bitter or anything but I've lost count of the number of times I've walked home from Stoke rather than waiting for the next train.

 

[dk1]

Norwich-Cambridge/Stansted Airport services have always been class 1 unless anything other than the standard stopping pattern occurs, then it becomes a class 2.