Revised EMR Regional Timetables - From 19th June

[LowLevel]

It's a shame because although arguably there's greater potential for the North Staffordshire stations, plus the Potteries and Crewe to have through services to Nottingham, the market for local travel from the Matlock branch stations is much more mature. It's also very frustrating that connections for journeys like Duffield to Nottingham aren't better. The through services from Crewe of course weren't available before the pandemic depressed overall demand so they've yet to have a proper opportunity to ramp up.

Journeys from/to North Staffs to Nottingham have always been fairly strong anyway (it was a pretty well timed change at Derby to/from XC), of all the routes it's probably got the most suppressed demand opening up now the 153s are gone - full and standing 2 car trains are now not unusual. There's a lot of Nottingham/Beeston - Preston/Scotland traffic appeared too rather than using the Nottingham - Liverpool route and quite a lot of Nottingham - Manchester traffic with with good connections at Stoke.

Ideally they'll both be back and my first reaction was that Derby - Crewe should be the shuttle however it's not all that simple, I suppose.

 

[ChrisC]

From BBC East Mids news site

East Midlands Railway to reinstate some cut services​

The reliability of services has improved to allow some to be reinstated, the operator says.
www.bbc.co.uk

The Robin Hood Line from Nottingham to Mansfield and Worksop will only see two additional peak time Monday to Friday trains restored to the timetable in December between Nottingham and Mansfield Woodhouse. For the rest of the day and including all day Saturdays the service remains only hourly. Hucknall still has a 2 hour gap without a train north during the morning peak and yet the 0724 departure from Nottingham continues to trundle through at a slow speed without stopping! As for operating a reduced timetable to enable a robust and reliable service to be run what absolute nonsense. Almost every train, every day, continues to run a few minutes late and on some days during the last few weeks trains in the morning peak have been so late and unreliable, that the service was just about unusable for anyone wanting to get to work in Nottingham. As I have said earlier in this thread, and many others also, a very reliable half hourly service has been operated successfully on this line now for well over 20 years, so why can’t EMR restore this frequency and reliability?

 

[WesternLancer]

Journeys from/to North Staffs to Nottingham have always been fairly strong anyway (it was a pretty well timed change at Derby to/from XC), of all the routes it's probably got the most suppressed demand opening up now the 153s are gone - full and standing 2 car trains are now not unusual. There's a lot of Nottingham/Beeston - Preston/Scotland traffic appeared too rather than using the Nottingham - Liverpool route and quite a lot of Nottingham - Manchester traffic with with good connections at Stoke.

Ideally they'll both be back and my first reaction was that Derby - Crewe should be the shuttle however it's not all that simple, I suppose.

Interesting to read those insights.

 

[Llandudno]

From BBC East Mids news site

East Midlands Railway to reinstate some cut services​

The reliability of services has improved to allow some to be reinstated, the operator says.
www.bbc.co.uk

Interesting comment regarding making the reinstatement of some services ‘cost efficient’

Does this mean they will try and avoid reinstating others as they are not cost efficient?

 

[Starmill]

Journeys from/to North Staffs to Nottingham have always been fairly strong anyway (it was a pretty well timed change at Derby to/from XC), of all the routes it's probably got the most suppressed demand opening up now the 153s are gone - full and standing 2 car trains are now not unusual. There's a lot of Nottingham/Beeston - Preston/Scotland traffic appeared too rather than using the Nottingham - Liverpool route and quite a lot of Nottingham - Manchester traffic with with good connections at Stoke.

Ideally they'll both be back and my first reaction was that Derby - Crewe should be the shuttle however it's not all that simple, I suppose.

Indeed. The connections available at Crewe and Stoke-on-Trent put large swathes of the country in one change of Nottingham or Beeston which must be a significant advantage! Plus I guess residually before 2008 (was it then?) there were through trains too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2021 ==

It's also a shame that the last service to Matlock can't start back at Nottingham. If you're trying to get back to Duffield for example you still need to be on the slow 2136 from Nottingham, and it takes over an hour. It's only 19 miles via the A52 and could probably be driven in half the time at that time of night.

 

[STINT47]

I find the comment on their website that they will be running 87 more trains than in the last pre covid timetable to be in poor taste. It's like they're congratulating themselves on their achievements and we should thank them for it.

Personally if I was responsible for introducing a new timetable that after one month had severe cuts made to it and even then still had lots of short forms, late running and cancellations I would be embarrassed and apologetic.

For people travelling from Nottingham to Duffield or Belper may I suggest Trent Barton buses as an alternative? The Red Arrow goes direct down the A52 every 10 minuets then you can connect in Derby bus station to the sixes, which run every 10 minuets. I've found that the journey is now quicker by bus due to poor rail connections at Derby and if you buy a zigzag day ticket it's cheaper.

 

[Starmill]

For people travelling from Nottingham to Duffield or Belper may I suggest Trent Barton buses as an alternative? The Red Arrow goes direct down the A52 every 10 minuets then you can connect in Derby bus station to the sixes, which run every 10 minuets. I've found that the journey is now quicker by bus due to poor rail connections at Derby and if you buy a zigzag day ticket it's cheaper.

No doubt Trentbarton have been quietly very pleased at the turn of events at EMR.

 

[43055]

It's a shame because although arguably there's greater potential for the North Staffordshire stations, plus the Potteries and Crewe to have through services to Nottingham, the market for local travel from the Matlock branch stations is much more mature. It's also very frustrating that connections for journeys like Duffield to Nottingham aren't better. The through services from Crewe of course weren't available before the pandemic depressed overall demand so they've yet to have a proper opportunity to ramp up.

Got a Crewe service from Derby last week and quite a lot of people did stay on so the extension to Nottingham does seem to be popular. Even better it seems that 170's have now made it on the route with what looks to be a 3 car on all week so far and also a 2 car out today as well.

 

[Kite159]

No doubt Trentbarton have been quietly very pleased at the turn of events at EMR.

And I suspect Stagecoach (?) has also been very pleased with the trains on the Robin Hood Line. I wonder how many residents of Mansfield or Kirkby area have given up on using the train and gone to use the bus (for at least they will probably get a seat on the bus)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I find the comment on their website that they will be running 87 more trains than in the last pre covid timetable to be in poor taste. It's like they're congratulating themselves on their achievements and we should thank them for it.

Personally if I was responsible for introducing a new timetable that after one month had severe cuts made to it and even then still had lots of short forms, late running and cancellations I would be embarrassed and apologetic.

Spot on no humility for the failure just limp excuses aided an abetted by RDG and and even the Dept of Transport keeping stumm. Lets see if DofT are stupid enough to pay them a bonus under the EMRA.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

It would be nice to see how the 486 trains per day / 87 extra trains has been calculated. Do they count Matlock to Derby as being operated when it still has it's Derby - Nottingham section removed?

I guess the Mainline and Connect services are included in this total to flatter the figures.

I think I'll do the sums, watch this space for the expose of PR bullspin!

Update:
The May 2021 timetable provides 334 EMR regional services - there could be some debate about linked services.
The June timetable (as operating mid-November) provides 253 regional services plus some buses. 38 of the 253 are only operated in part (mostly the Matlock not to Nottingham route).
The January 2022 timetable provides 272 regional services.

Still seems quite a shortfall to me - 81.5% to be operated to be precise.

Note how the press release refers to 22 services being re-instated (which is technically correct) but the net increase is only 18 due to the withdrawal of four Skegness services.

How the figures comapre to the pre-May 2021 timetable I don't know, as I do not have a recent analysis.

 

[DDB]

When they chopped nearly all the Spondon services EMR claimed they got XR to put in extra stops. I was never sure if this was true but now XC have withdrawn one of the services making Spondons service even worse.
There is no publicity about this at Spondon station. As it is an EMR station the help point takes you through to EMR help who refuse to help as its CrossCountry despite the fact you only need CrossCountry anyway as EMR have withdrawn nearly all the services.

 

[STINT47]

The last week and especially today have been truly awful on EMR regional routes. Lots of cancellations leading to gaps in the service, which make using public transport for work a nightmare.

Nothing seems to be getting better and it seems that adding additional trains at the timetable change has just put us back to where we were last June.

I might accept covid as a valid reason for all the shortages but the IbterCity side is a lot more reliable and other TOCs are achieving much better reliability. I'm sure covid is having an impact but I don't think it covers all of the current problems by a long way. Are staff not working overtime due to industrial relations?

I'm sorry to say this but I'm wondering if things will ever get better whilst the current management are in place. After six months they seem to have achieved very little, or if they have pethaps they should communicate it better so we can cut them some slack?

I can only hope that the new year starts to bring us a regional service that can be relied on again.

 

[43055]

The last week and especially today have been truly awful on EMR regional routes. Lots of cancellations leading to gaps in the service, which make using public transport for work a nightmare.

Nothing seems to be getting better and it seems that adding additional trains at the timetable change has just put us back to where we were last June.

I might accept covid as a valid reason for all the shortages but the IbterCity side is a lot more reliable and other TOCs are achieving much better reliability. I'm sure covid is having an impact but I don't think it covers all of the current problems by a long way. Are staff not working overtime due to industrial relations?

I'm sorry to say this but I'm wondering if things will ever get better whilst the current management are in place. After six months they seem to have achieved very little, or if they have pethaps they should communicate it better so we can cut them some slack?

I can only hope that the new year starts to bring us a regional service that can be relied on again.

Really hope things improve soon. The first 2 Nottingham/Newark - Crewe and Nottingham - Skegness services are cancelled in the morning. The former will mean the first arrival into Crewe won't be until 11am. If this was the Intercity route it wouldn't be acceptable but because its a little regional service then it's ok.

The intercity route has probably had some slack this week due to the engineering works at Kentish Town which has reduced the service.

 

[43096]

The last week and especially today have been truly awful on EMR regional routes. Lots of cancellations leading to gaps in the service, which make using public transport for work a nightmare.

Nothing seems to be getting better and it seems that adding additional trains at the timetable change has just put us back to where we were last June.

I might accept covid as a valid reason for all the shortages but the IbterCity side is a lot more reliable and other TOCs are achieving much better reliability. I'm sure covid is having an impact but I don't think it covers all of the current problems by a long way. Are staff not working overtime due to industrial relations?

I'm sorry to say this but I'm wondering if things will ever get better whilst the current management are in place. After six months they seem to have achieved very little, or if they have pethaps they should communicate it better so we can cut them some slack?

I can only hope that the new year starts to bring us a regional service that can be relied on again.

I’m not following your logic: if the St Pancras services are more reliable and the local side isn’t then that would imply that management is not the issue as it’s the same senior team across both service groups.

 

[LowLevel]

The last week and especially today have been truly awful on EMR regional routes. Lots of cancellations leading to gaps in the service, which make using public transport for work a nightmare.

Nothing seems to be getting better and it seems that adding additional trains at the timetable change has just put us back to where we were last June.

I might accept covid as a valid reason for all the shortages but the IbterCity side is a lot more reliable and other TOCs are achieving much better reliability. I'm sure covid is having an impact but I don't think it covers all of the current problems by a long way. Are staff not working overtime due to industrial relations?

I'm sorry to say this but I'm wondering if things will ever get better whilst the current management are in place. After six months they seem to have achieved very little, or if they have pethaps they should communicate it better so we can cut them some slack?

I can only hope that the new year starts to bring us a regional service that can be relied on again.

People are working lots of overtime but that is also an issue - it's gone on for so long that you can only keep that up to a point. COVID taking people out at no notice and the festive season are not helping - people will not give up personal engagements to go to work.

I'm on my 3 weekly weekend off at the moment and after not doing much overtime for a while because I don't want to be at work I am working every day of it for them but I wouldn't do that every time, it would cause me to have a breakdown eventually.

They've got plenty of new drivers coming online but the age profile of the establishment doesn't help - it takes literally years to get someone fully trained up to replace an experienced driver and Nottingham in particular has a big group of staff who qualified in the 80s who either arrived in the late 80s or early 90s, or moved from the freight in the early 2000s and they're starting to think about or actually leaving at once - they don't want to hang around to allow the Government to "reform" their pensions.

 

[ChrisC]

It’s the Robin Hood Line timetable that I am finding most inconvenient. The daytime frequency between Mansfield and Nottingham was reduced to only hourly last June and the 2tph have still not been restored and I am now quite concerned that the current timetable will continue even beyond May this year.

Although inconvenient, I can live with an hourly service for local journeys, but I have completely had enough of the current timetable when trying to make journeys further afield with connections at Nottingham. Almost everywhere I have travelled to these last 6 months has resulted in me having approximately an hour to wait in Nottingham on both the outward and return journey.

The Robin Hood Line train, when it’s not late or cancelled, arrives in Nottingham each hour at xx44.
Trains to the these destinations depart at the following times resulting in up to an hour wait for the next train. The connection to Derby is the one that connects with the X/C service to the South West. Even the fast train to London is a tight connection.
Norwich xx34
Lincoln/Grimsby xx38
Derby/Birmingham xx41
Grantham/Skegness xx45
Manchester/Liverpool xx47
London St. Pancras xx52

It’s just as bad in the opposite direction as the Robin Hood Line train departs from Nottingham each hour at xx25.
Trains arrive in Nottingham from the following places at the following times.
Skegness/Grantham xx20
Derby/Birmingham xx23
Grimsby/Lincoln xx25
Liverpool/Manchester xx29
Norwich xx34

If the hourly service, with no usable connections, continues beyond May I think I will be using my car far more often this summer. As an example a few weeks ago when travelling home from Newcastle changing at Grantham, the xx20 arrival from Skegness was 4 minutes late arriving in Nottingham and I ran down the platform just as the Robin Hood Line train was departing resulting in an hour to wait in Nottingham. I know it wasn’t an actual valid connection but before the timetable cuts there was always another train to Mansfield in 30 minutes if it was missed. It was the currently missing from the timetable, Mansfield Woodhouse trains, that made most of the best connections in both directions.

 

[Killingworth]

People are working lots of overtime but that is also an issue - it's gone on for so long that you can only keep that up to a point. COVID taking people out at no notice and the festive season are not helping - people will not give up personal engagements to go to work.

I'm on my 3 weekly weekend off at the moment and after not doing much overtime for a while because I don't want to be at work I am working every day of it for them but I wouldn't do that every time, it would cause me to have a breakdown eventually.

They've got plenty of new drivers coming online but the age profile of the establishment doesn't help - it takes literally years to get someone fully trained up to replace an experienced driver and Nottingham in particular has a big group of staff who qualified in the 80s who either arrived in the late 80s or early 90s, or moved from the freight in the early 2000s and they're starting to think about or actually leaving at once - they don't want to hang around to allow the Government to "reform" their pensions.

I can totally empathise with that. It was an age ago when retirement at 50 was possible that I realised that everyone else was opting out. Generous redundancy (early retirement!) packages were on offer. Reducing head count was less important than reducing the wage bill.

I didn't qualify for overtime but was putting in masses of extra hours to achieve targets. Approaching 51 I was the oldest in my area and saw the effects of drastically reduced experience in our teams. Poorer terms were coming. It was a no brainer.

The age profile is a major threat to any employer, especially when experience takes years to acquire. In our case it became a stampede to leave! EMR need to get a grip on this quickly or it's going to get a lot worse.
.

 

[DDB]

It’s the Robin Hood Line timetable that I am finding most inconvenient. The daytime frequency between Mansfield and Nottingham was reduced to only hourly last June and the 2tph have still not been restored and I am now quite concerned that the current timetable will continue even beyond May this year.

Although inconvenient, I can live with an hourly service for local journeys, but I have completely had enough of the current timetable when trying to make journeys further afield with connections at Nottingham. Almost everywhere I have travelled to these last 6 months has resulted in me having approximately an hour to wait in Nottingham on both the outward and return journey.

The Robin Hood Line train, when it’s not late or cancelled, arrives in Nottingham each hour at xx44.
Trains to the these destinations depart at the following times resulting in up to an hour wait for the next train. The connection to Derby is the one that connects with the X/C service to the South West. Even the fast train to London is a tight connection.
Norwich xx34
Lincoln/Grimsby xx38
Derby/Birmingham xx41
Grantham/Skegness xx45
Manchester/Liverpool xx47
London St. Pancras xx52

It’s just as bad in the opposite direction as the Robin Hood Line train departs from Nottingham each hour at xx25.
Trains arrive in Nottingham from the following places at the following times.
Skegness/Grantham xx20
Derby/Birmingham xx23
Grimsby/Lincoln xx25
Liverpool/Manchester xx29
Norwich xx34

If the hourly service, with no usable connections, continues beyond May I think I will be using my car far more often this summer. As an example a few weeks ago when travelling home from Newcastle changing at Grantham, the xx20 arrival from Skegness was 4 minutes late arriving in Nottingham and I ran down the platform just as the Robin Hood Line train was departing resulting in an hour to wait in Nottingham. I know it wasn’t an actual valid connection but before the timetable cuts there was always another train to Mansfield in 30 minutes if it was missed. It was the currently missing from the timetable, Mansfield Woodhouse trains, that made most of the best connections in both directions.

See this is the thing with EMR they cut services in a hurry back in June and haven't gone back to see if they could make more sensibe cuts to run better services with the resources available. It sounds like running the opposite service on Robinhood instead would restore connectivity. In the same way on the Nottingham Derby stretch they cut the stopper rather than the semi fast so some stations didn't get a service at all. They've has six months to come up with something better and they haven't.

Picking up an earlier post the communication with the public has been practically non existent.

 

[WesternLancer]

See this is the thing with EMR they cut services in a hurry back in June and haven't gone back to see if they could make more sensibe cuts to run better services with the resources available. It sounds like running the opposite service on Robinhood instead would restore connectivity. In the same way on the Nottingham Derby stretch they cut the stopper rather than the semi fast so some stations didn't get a service at all. They've has six months to come up with something better and they haven't.

Picking up an earlier post the communication with the public has been practically non existent.

Yes, and that is a management decision, or set of decisions....

 

[josla1]

I see the remaining services due to be reinstated today on the Norwich/Nottingham - Liverpool have all not run.

 

[43055]

Some positive news it looks like almost everything has run today on the regional side. Only cancellations seem to be the first Crewe - Derby (door problem) and a single return between Nottingham - Liverpool and Nottingham - Norwich.

 

[dk1]

Some positive news it looks like almost everything has run today on the regional side. Only cancellations seem to be the first Crewe - Derby (door problem) and a single return between Nottingham - Liverpool and Nottingham - Norwich.

Passed more EMR services today between Norwich & Ely (two return runs) than I have done in months. One was even still a 4-car.

 

[LowLevel]

No annual leave now apart from application days (IE no booked weeks) which makes life much easier.

 

[Killingworth]

I see the remaining services due to be reinstated today on the Norwich/Nottingham - Liverpool have all not run.

Not sure if they were supposed to run today, it's hard to keep track, but think the full hourly service between Sheffield and Liverpool's been put off a bit longer. More from next week, according to RTT.

There'll still be a missing c.8.37 from Sheffield going west and a c.9.42 from Piccadilly coming east. Maybe all will be resolved in May.

 

[STINT47]

The service does seem to have run a lot better over the last two days. If stopping anual leave has done this then I can't help but feel that this should have been done months ago,staff could have had payments in lieu of taking time off and leaving customers stranded.

 

[Qwerty133]

No annual leave now apart from application days (IE no booked weeks) which makes life much easier.

That just sums the railway up. Surely as much booked weeks of leave as possible should be shoved into unpopular weeks as more people are willing to do overtime on such weeks and the numbers opting to take their own choice of leave will be much lower in January than in the run up to Xmas.

 

[Llandudno]

The service does seem to have run a lot better over the last two days. If stopping anual leave has done this then I can't help but feel that this should have been done months ago,staff could have had payments in lieu of taking time off and leaving customers stranded.

I suppose limiting annual leave helps in the short term, however, train crews will be accumulating their annual leave to take later in the year which will no doubt lead to cancellations in the summer and on weekends leading up to Christmas when passenger demand is back to normal?

 

[LowLevel]

That just sums the railway up. Surely as much booked weeks of leave as possible should be shoved into unpopular weeks as more people are willing to do overtime on such weeks and the numbers opting to take their own choice of leave will be much lower in January than in the run up to Xmas.

There are maximum quotas permitted for each week and you can guarantee Christmas and school holidays will always be full so it doesn't really help.

I personally prefer my leave away from popular times but then I don't have kids to get fined over taking them out of school.

If you want your leave this week you can opt to swap to it.

 

[dk1]

That just sums the railway up. Surely as much booked weeks of leave as possible should be shoved into unpopular weeks as more people are willing to do overtime on such weeks and the numbers opting to take their own choice of leave will be much lower in January than in the run up to Xmas.

That would be totally against the holiday roster which runs over many years and rotates over those years. At my depot it starts next week & runs continually until mid December so what you are suggesting would be totally unworkable.