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GTR cancellations including not operating from Victoria until 10th Jan

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Surreytraveller

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Will that half of Victoria station and approach be silent? If so, does that make the engineering works easier because they don’t have anyone to hand it back to between the periods they’ve planned for?
The railway is either open or its shut. It'll make it painless should there be an overrun. The engineers will still have to hand it back, regardless of whether there's any trains running or not
 
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JN114

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Will that half of Victoria station and approach be silent? If so, does that make the engineering works easier because they don’t have anyone to hand it back to between the periods they’ve planned for?

Possession are planned down to the minute, months in advance.

For the same reasons Southern’s timetablers aren’t going to be rewriting the timetable, Network Rail aren’t going to replan a possession already in progress.

There’ll be less pressure as lesser consequences of an overrun; but nothing will be changed as a result.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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There's no time or resources to rewrite a plan. Its not a simple task to extend the Balham terminators to Victoria. Stock workings have to be rewritten, timetables have to be rewritten, driver diagrams have to be rewritten. Maintenance schedules for the stock have to be rewritten.
There is no-one and no time to do it
I only said C.Jcn to give a better travel experience for its customers. Anyhow it is what it is so i least hope Southerns planners are able to come up with a revised Vic service from the following week when more people will be travelling even with reduced numbers as this is going to an ongoing problem for weeks.
 

Surreytraveller

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I only said C.Jcn to give a better travel experience for its customers. Anyhow it is what it is so i least hope Southerns planners are able to come up with a revised Vic service from the following week when more people will be travelling even with reduced numbers as this is going to an ongoing problem for weeks.
There's a plan in the pipeline for a shuttle service using the Gatwick Express stock and drivers from Victoria to Gatwick calling at Clapham and Croydon
 

BluePenguin

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It is at times like this we should appreciate what little train services we have available to us as some people have none.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Interesting that SWT and SE are holding their current service levels so i do hope ALL TOCs have been tasked by government to have a reduced service plan for every route ready to go as its pretty clear every depot is destined to face an outbreak at some point.
I laughed out loud reading this. SWR’s permanent timetable is a reduced one - a heavily reduced one - with Dorking slashed to hourly, Guildford via Epsom slashed to hourly, Shepperton slashed to hourly and Hounslow loop services cut apart from the peaks and according to SWR’s consultation - they want to keep it this way as part of the December 2022 change next year! Reduce it anymore, considering remaining trains are already heavily short formed due to the stock crisis, and they’ll be riots

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I laughed out loud reading this. SWR’s permanent timetable is a reduced one - a heavily reduced one - with Dorking slashed to hourly, Guildford via Epsom slashed to hourly, Shepperton slashed to hourly and Hounslow loop services cut apart from the peaks and according to SWR’s consultation - they want to keep it this way as part of the December 2022 change next year! Reduce it anymore, considering remaining trains are already heavily short formed due to the stock crisis, and they’ll be riots
Edit: Hang on, I’ve possibly misunderstood. I thought by “holding their current service levels” you meant retaining the full service, hence my amusement, but if you mean retaining the reduced service, indeed you are right and I apologise for my misunderstanding.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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I laughed out loud reading this. SWR’s permanent timetable is a reduced one - a heavily reduced one - with Dorking slashed to hourly, Guildford via Epsom slashed to hourly, Shepperton slashed to hourly and Hounslow loop services cut apart from the peaks and according to SWR’s consultation - they want to keep it this way as part of the December 2022 change next year! Reduce it anymore, considering remaining trains are already heavily short formed due to the stock crisis, and they’ll be riots

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Edit: Hang on, I’ve possibly misunderstood. I thought by “holding their current service levels” you meant retaining the full service, hence my amusement, but if you mean retaining the reduced service, indeed you are right and I apologise for my misunderstanding.
I meant the latter in that they've held there current service levels but your entitled to laugh out loud . Also to be fair to Southern they were much closer to pre covid service levels at Dec timetable change anyhow but this outcome was so inevitable anyhow but guess timing was lousy for TOC Southern planners with Xmas engineering works leaving no spare resource to plan a contingency timetable.
 

Surreytraveller

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I meant the latter in that they've held there current service levels but your entitled to laugh out loud . Also to be fair to Southern they were much closer to pre covid service levels at Dec timetable change anyhow but this outcome was so inevitable anyhow but guess timing was lousy for TOC Southern planners with Xmas engineering works leaving no spare resource to plan a contingency timetable.
There's not a spare resource to plan a contingency timetable anyway. Planners are busy preparing for future blockades and timetable changes. There aren't planners sat around doing nothing in case a pandemic comes along.
Southern is lucky it has a timetable they can pull off the shelf to roll over into next week. Any extra work planners do now puts future timetables at risk
 

deepeetw

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It’s OK, SWR have their own additional reductions coming in January as well.

(have started a new thread for that)

As a result, we will be introducing a new, consolidated timetable from Monday 17 January 2022. Our focus is on producing a timetable that is deliverable, so that we improve reliability for our customers, and caters to key workers, school pupils and those who cannot work from home. We will be publishing further details on our new timetable shortl
 
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Taunton

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Surely there must be a simplistic emergency game plan already on file, done years ago, for 25% staff shortfall, 50% shortfall, 75% shortfall, whatever. Likewise for stock shortages in similar proportions, lines closed, and other contingencies.
 

BayPaul

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Surely there must be a simplistic emergency game plan already on file, done years ago, for 25% staff shortfall, 50% shortfall, 75% shortfall, whatever. Likewise for stock shortages in similar proportions, lines closed, and other contingencies.
But a plan put together years ago wouldn't be able to simply drop straight in to the current situation, as there are dependencies on other operators whose timetables have changed, different stock etc.
I suspect it isn't as simple as an emergency plan for 25% staff shortfall - it is likely that some depots are more heavily impacted than others.
 

Ian1971

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So what do they expect those who have to travel to Victoria or Clapham for work or education purposes do?
Moreover it would be helpful if they uploaded the timetables into the various online planners
My daughter uses Southern to get to and from college everyday and she’s expected to go in, but at present neither Southerns app or the National rail app show anything but the normal timetable but with a note that there will be alterations
 
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mmh

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So what do they expect those who have to travel to Victoria or Clapham for work or education purposes do?
Moreover it would be helpful if they uploaded the timetables into the various online planners
My daughter uses Southern to get to and from college everyday and she’s expected to go in, but at present neither Southerns app or the National rail app show anything but the normal timetable but with a note that there will be alterations
I also note that those on the COVID tread who have suggested that everyone should be just going around as normal are very quiet about the prospect of this distribution
There's a link to their website with their suggestions on what people should do in the first post of this thread.
 

Surreytraveller

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So what do they expect those who have to travel to Victoria or Clapham for work or education purposes do?
Moreover it would be helpful if they uploaded the timetables into the various online planners
My daughter uses Southern to get to and from college everyday and she’s expected to go in, but at present neither Southerns app or the National rail app show anything but the normal timetable but with a note that there will be alterations
Have a look at today and tomorrow's timetable. That's what will be running.
There aren't the staff available to process the amount of information at a moment's notice.
 

Ian1971

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There's a link to their website with their suggestions on what people should do in the first post of this thread.
It gives very little really practical information, once again the traveller is treated as an inconvenience. I fail to understand how a rail company can justify removing all their services from their main London terminus with only a couple of days notice.

Its akin to the only supermarket in town simply removing 50% of its products including many of the main staples & expecting all their customers to accept it
 

Jan Mayen

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It's a bit more than a few days notice. A few minutes on the web, and I came up with a journey from Victoria to home using Southeastern to Herne Hill, Thameslink to Tulse Hill (memo to self: Streatham would be better, or at least different), Southern to East Croydon, then Thameslink home. Added 40 minutes to the journey. Faster options using London Underground and Blackfriars or London Bridge are available.
 

Surreytraveller

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It gives very little really practical information, once again the traveller is treated as an inconvenience. I fail to understand how a rail company can justify removing all their services from their main London terminus with only a couple of days notice.

Its akin to the only supermarket in town simply removing 50% of its products including many of the main staples & expecting all their customers to accept it
What would you suggest they do? Go ahead with a full timetable that within a couple of hours has descended into chaos?

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It's a bit more than a few days notice. A few minutes on the web, and I came up with a journey from Victoria to home using Southeastern to Herne Hill, Thameslink to Tulse Hill (memo to self: Streatham would be better, or at least different), Southern to East Croydon, then Thameslink home. Added 40 minutes to the journey. Faster options using London Underground and Blackfriars or London Bridge are available.
Streatham is same platform interchange, of course!
 

Southern Dvr

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FACT: The Victoria resignalling & engineering works is running on time. No overrun expected.

FACT: Within 8 hours of December rosters being released a ‘control timetable’ came in.

CONJECTURE: The December Timetable over promised to a massive degree.
 

Ian1971

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What would you suggest they do? Go ahead with a full timetable that within a couple of hours has descended into chaos?

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Streatham is same platform interchange, of course!
I’d suggest that they provide at least some service to their main terminus and the biggest interchange on the network (Clapham).
London Bridge is a very long way from Victoria and having to travel via London Bridge and Waterloo to connect to SWT services extends journey times by up to an hour
I understand they have to reduce services but a blanket removal of all services from one of the main arteries into the Capital seems extreme
 

bramling

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I’d suggest that they provide at least some service to their main terminus and the biggest interchange on the network (Clapham).
London Bridge is a very long way from Victoria and having to travel via London Bridge and Waterloo to connect to SWT services extends journey times by up to an hour
I understand they have to reduce services but a blanket removal of all services from one of the main arteries into the Capital seems extreme

It seems to be the case that they simply don't have the resources to do the necessary planning. It won't just be train crews off, but planning, control and management too.

We currently have a situation where in places there's up to 80% of staff off in certain teams, in many cases "awaiting PCR test".
 

JonathanH

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Surreytraveller

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I’d suggest that they provide at least some service to their main terminus and the biggest interchange on the network (Clapham).
London Bridge is a very long way from Victoria and having to travel via London Bridge and Waterloo to connect to SWT services extends journey times by up to an hour
I understand they have to reduce services but a blanket removal of all services from one of the main arteries into the Capital seems extreme
Who's going to arrange for that service to be provided? There is no-one.
 

mmh

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Who's going to arrange for that service to be provided? There is no-one.
The Gatwick Express drivers at home twiddling thumbs? I predict the shuttle won't happen, I doubt they'd run it at a frequency which prevented it being completely overrun. Perhaps I'm too cynical, and I won't be annoyed if I'm proved wrong!
 

deepeetw

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The Northern Line will not be serving London Bridge from the 15th either due to the Bank branch works, so it's going to be harder getting the increased number of passengers to their destinations as well.
 

Surreytraveller

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The Gatwick Express drivers at home twiddling thumbs? I predict the shuttle won't happen, I doubt they'd run it at a frequency which prevented it being completely overrun. Perhaps I'm too cynical, and I won't be annoyed if I'm proved wrong!
Train drivers aren't planners. They won't have the equipment, training or knowledge of how to arrange for a service to run.
Its not a case of just getting in a train and driving it!
 

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Brighton-London being Thameslink only sounds okay-ish at 4tph, but then you get those random days when the entire Cambridge service is binned due to lack of staff, and then it will be cosy and frustrating.
 

Sussex Ben

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Things must be really bad at Southern if the reduced timetable used on the run up to Christmas couldn’t be brought back into action, especially as I assume crew diagrams broadly worked with the Dec 2021 roster.

I can’t complain though, as this means I can look forward to direct trains to London Bridge next week that aren’t 700s :D
 

hwl

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So what do they expect those who have to travel to Victoria or Clapham for work or education purposes do?
Moreover it would be helpful if they uploaded the timetables into the various online planners
My daughter uses Southern to get to and from college everyday and she’s expected to go in, but at present neither Southerns app or the National rail app show anything but the normal timetable but with a note that there will be alteration
I also note that those on the COVID tread who have suggested that everyone should be just going around as normal are very quiet about the prospect of this disruption

The timetables for Tuesday 4th to Friday 7th were uploaded to southern website earlier this afternoon:

Effectively:
Fast services via Forest Hill to London Bridge (only LO stopping services on the Forest Hill corridor, no southern ones)
Local South London stopping services all via Tulse Hill to London Bridge.
 
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