Will HS2 actually be an interesting journey from a passenger perspective?

[PTR 444]

One of the lesser discussed aspects of HS2 is what the passenger experience of the journey will be like. Of course, one of the main selling points is the sheer speed of the journey, but will this actually make for a positive experience for passengers using it? Apart from this aspect which might entice some thrill seekers and people fascinated with the idea of getting somewhere far away quickly, the journey would pass through relatively mundane countryside and the high speed means you’d miss a lot of it anyway. Still, it could be seen as a way of getting to the more scenic parts of the rail network more quickly, as once phase 2b opens you could be passing through the Lake District section of the WCML just shy of 2 hours from leaving London.

Also, once HS2 has been open for a few years, will the novelty of speed have worn off? For example, travelling at 200mph might sound like a really exciting experience for a young child, but if you’re doing it every day as part of a commute, you’ll get pretty bored of it quickly just like every other regular journey you’ve done on a frequent basis.

 

[DerekC]

Generally speaking the faster the journey the more boring in terms of making sense of what you see out of the window, but that's offset by the shorter time to get bored in. Big landscape features (like mountains) help because they stay in sight for longer even when travelling fast and give some idea of progress. HS2 is going to be in tunnel pretty much continuously until it gets onto the Midland Plain, after which it's pretty flat all the way. The fact that it is a bit faster than TGV or Eurostar won't be detectable from inside the train. So quick - yes. Boring, pretty definitely!

 

[AlterEgo]

A large part of HS2 is going to be in cuttings and tunnels isn’t it? It’s going to be ghastly, with plastic, surgery-lit trains as well no doubt.

 

[jfowkes]

When it's not in tunnel, it'll be in cutting or behind sound reduction barriers or something. Fairly dull. The view as it travels over the Colne Valley viaduct might be nice though.

I think the vast majority of travellers won't especially care though. While a nice view is a bonus, especially on leisure trips, ultimately for most people the view is pretty far down the list of priorities.

 

[CarltonA]

I expect many passengers will be glued to their phones etc, as is already the case nowadays. I'm often the only old fuddyduddy looking at other things.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The best bit, as it is on Eurostar or high speed lines generally, will be when it changes from classic metals to high speed, in the open.
It's the surge to seemingly limitless speed which impresses, plus the realisation of how far you have travelled in a few minutes.
So the best bits are likely to be leaving either of the Birmingham stations, or leaving Crewe towards London.
If the Handsacre link gets used, that will also demonstrate the contrast between classic line speeds and HS2.
Tunnels may be impressive engineering works, but they don't do much for the passenger experience.
My abiding memory of a first journey on Eurostar through the Channel Tunnel was of the Japanese passengers taking photos of each other in the tunnel...

Eurostar also displays (or it did on 373s) the live speed on the PIS, something always denied* domestic train passengers in the UK.
Hopefully HS2 will display its even faster speed - or there are GPS phone apps which will.
Speed display is quite common on the continent, but it tends to get lost in the scrolling route/station info, adverts and even films.

*except for a single WCML Voyager trip I did in about 2003, when the speed was displayed on the PIS.
Ironically, it was on a 221 set with disabled tilt, so the reading never got past 110mph.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Despite the name, HS2 isn't really about speed, it's about capacity (which is why the southern end is being done first). If you want a scenic journey, go to the Cambrian Coast or the West Highland Line

 

[Western Sunset]

So we won't be able to stand in the corridor, lower the droplight and cop the locos standing in the sidings then?

 

[Revaulx]

A large part of HS2 is going to be in cuttings and tunnels isn’t it? It’s going to be ghastly, with plastic, surgery-lit trains as well no doubt.

On German ICEs the dullness of the view outside is compensated for by the comfort and classiness of the interiors.

One can only hope that the British ones are as nice. Given the awful quality and ambience of virtually every recent British train interior, I can’t say I’m optimistic…

 

[SamYeager]

Eurostar also displays (or it did on 373s) the live speed on the PIS, something always denied* domestic train passengers in the UK.
Hopefully HS2 will display its even faster speed - or there are GPS phone apps which will.
Speed display is quite common on the continent, but it tends to get lost in the scrolling route/station info, adverts and even films.

I didn't notice the speed display on the Eurostar when I travelled in 2019 but I did on the ICE from Brussels to Frankfurt.

 

[BahrainLad]

It should be like an ICE, with lots of wood and leather and nice lighting, a bistro area and waiter service in F, and maybe even compartments for business travellers to have a meeting.

What it will actually be like is a Class 395, with a vending machine.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

On German ICEs the dullness of the view outside is compensated for by the comfort and classiness of the interiors.

One can only hope that the British ones are as nice. Given the awful quality and ambience of virtually every recent British train interior, I can’t say I’m optimistic…

Travelling in Germany is boring over the NBS (new) and ABS (upgraded) lines as you are plagued with 5m high sound barriers where the only interest is what colour the material is. Completely takes away the experience of travelling by rail and watching the world go by even if an ICE is comfy. That said at least if you go up front on the ICE3 units you cans see where your going at 200mph if the driver hasn't darkened the glass.

 

[Skie]

Given the amount of tunnel/cutting running I hope they’re building some form of trackside data uplink to the trains, otherwise it’s going to be worse than the WCML/390s for phone signal and incredibly dull.

 

[fishwomp]

I expect many passengers will be glued to their phones etc, as is already the case nowadays. I'm often the only old fuddyduddy looking at other things.

On a busy service with airline seats, if you are in an aisle seat with high back, the current services don't offer a great view. There are also some sections in London and the Birmingham conurbation where the view would benefit from tunnels or high barrier fences today..

 

[furnessvale]

Also, once HS2 has been open for a few years, will the novelty of speed have worn off? For example, travelling at 200mph might sound like a really exciting experience for a young child, but if you’re doing it every day as part of a commute, you’ll get pretty bored of it quickly just like every other regular journey you’ve done on a frequent basis.

Of course a regular commute at 200mph can become boring. What the traveller needs to do when that happens is remind himself that he used to make the same boring commute at half the speed taking twice as long!

 

[6Gman]

So we won't be able to stand in the corridor, lower the droplight and cop the locos standing in the sidings then?

What about leaning out to get the numbers of trains coming the other way?

(Worked with - most - steam locos and Southern EMUs)

 

[Horizon22]

No it probably won’t be that interesting. But outside of enthusiasts, I would say the importance of this comes fairly low down the ranking of passenger priorities.

 

[colchesterken]

I like to go to the South of France for holidays. I gave up flying several years ago when I discovered the pleasure of the TGV
I love the experience of an upstairs seat rushing through northern France looking at the little villages and the farms,
I never read or play with the phone just look out of the window, Miss it with Covid restrictions

 

[ExRes]

I guess it shouldn't be too difficult to get some sleep, just sit there counting sheep grazing on pound signs on the fields of tarmac

 

[Mojo]

Given how much of the line is going to be in tunnel, will 4G/5G signal repeaters, such as the leaky feeders being trialled and installed on the Underground, be fitted in the tunnels?

 

[Carlisle]

There are also some sections in London and the Birmingham conurbation where the view would benefit from tunnels or high barrier fences today..

A view couldn’t be improved by tunnels or barriers, just enhance privacy & noise reduction on surrounding land

 

[Peter Mugridge]

When it's not in tunnel, it'll be in cutting or behind sound reduction barriers or something. Fairly dull.

I suspect the experience will be fairly similar to the first 15 - 20 minutes or so of a TGV ride out of Paris Montparnasse, which is similarly blighted by tunnels and barriers.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It should be like an ICE, with lots of wood and leather and nice lighting, a bistro area and waiter service in F, and maybe even compartments for business travellers to have a meeting.

I agree, and despite my liking for Alstom trains, a win by Siemens could have granted us that should they have offered a Velaro family train.

What it will actually be like is a Class 395, with a vending machine.

Bright and clinical. Hitachi’s finest!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The southern WCML has its sights which you can tick off on the way south: Rugby's flyovers/unders, views of the Grand Union Canal and its boats, several impressive tunnels of varying length, elevated sections around Wolverton, steep cuttings at Roade and Tring, the odd view of crawling motorway traffic (M1, M25), Ivinghoe Beacon and the recently restored Whipsnade Lion near Leighton Buzzard, adjacent slow line traffic with plenty of freight, sharply curving/tilting sections such as Weedon, Wolverton and Berkhamsted, miles of sidings from Wembley onwards, increasing housing eyesores with their backs to the railway, a possible glimpse of GC-route traffic where the Marylebone line crosses the WCML, before the final descent into Euston.

HS2 will build its own ambience from the country it runs through, but it has quite a lot to live up to for variety and historical significance.
Tunnels apart, it does have a predominantly green route with little industrial development south of Birmingham Interchange or Crewe.
The elevated sections should be interesting, assuming you can see over the sound barriers.
The viaduct south of Lichfield where HS2 crosses the WCML should give some views of "old v new", with the cathedral spires in the background.
The tall chimney of the Cemex works at Southam, a landmark visible in the long view from the Banbury-Leamington line, is only 3km from HS2 as it enters the Long Itchington tunnel from the north, so may not be visible from the train.

 

[Roger100]

The best bit, as it is on Eurostar or high speed lines generally, will be when it changes from classic metals to high speed, in the open.
It's the surge to seemingly limitless speed which impresses, plus the realisation of how far you have travelled in a few minutes.
So the best bits are likely to be leaving either of the Birmingham stations, or leaving Crewe towards London.
If the Handsacre link gets used, that will also demonstrate the contrast between classic line speeds and HS2.
Tunnels may be impressive engineering works, but they don't do much for the passenger experience.
My abiding memory of a first journey on Eurostar through the Channel Tunnel was of the Japanese passengers taking photos of each other in the tunnel...

Eurostar also displays (or it did on 373s) the live speed on the PIS, something always denied* domestic train passengers in the UK.
Hopefully HS2 will display its even faster speed - or there are GPS phone apps which will.
Speed display is quite common on the continent, but it tends to get lost in the scrolling route/station info, adverts and even films.

*except for a single WCML Voyager trip I did in about 2003, when the speed was displayed on the PIS.
Ironically, it was on a 221 set with disabled tilt, so the reading never got past 110mph.

A rather poor photo taken on a FGW HST in 2013 - the VOLO TV screens could display a moving map display and the train speed. The photo shows the route between Twyford and Maidenhead and 116 mph. These screens were removed in 2014.

 

[The Planner]

The southern WCML has its sights which you can tick off on the way south: Rugby's flyovers/unders, views of the Grand Union Canal and its boats, several impressive tunnels of varying length, elevated sections around Wolverton, steep cuttings at Roade and Tring, the odd view of crawling motorway traffic (M1, M25), Ivinghoe Beacon and the recently restored Whipsnade Lion near Leighton Buzzard, adjacent slow line traffic with plenty of freight, sharply curving/tilting sections such as Weedon, Wolverton and Berkhamsted, miles of sidings from Wembley onwards, increasing housing eyesores with their backs to the railway, a possible glimpse of GC-route traffic where the Marylebone line crosses the WCML, before the final descent into Euston.

HS2 will build its own ambience from the country it runs through, but it has quite a lot to live up to for variety and historical significance.
Tunnels apart, it does have a predominantly green route with little industrial development south of Birmingham Interchange or Crewe.
The elevated sections should be interesting, assuming you can see over the sound barriers.
The viaduct south of Lichfield where HS2 crosses the WCML should give some views of "old v new", with the cathedral spires in the background.
The tall chimney of the Cemex works at Southam, a landmark visible in the long view from the Banbury-Leamington line, is only 3km from HS2 as it enters the Long Itchington tunnel from the north, so may not be visible from the train.

You will be dissapointed there, HS2 goes under the WCML south of Lichfield in a jacked box. Delta Jn to Interchange should be interesting though with all the grade seperation and going over the M42 and M6.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On German ICEs the dullness of the view outside is compensated for by the comfort and classiness of the interiors.

One can only hope that the British ones are as nice. Given the awful quality and ambience of virtually every recent British train interior, I can’t say I’m optimistic…

I don't know about ambiance, but comfort should be reasonable, as decent legroom and reclining seats are specified, so it can't be ironing boards.

 

[Mikey C]

If it's anything like HS1, there will be the occasional moment of interest, in between the tunnels and dull views (due to being "hiddden"). I always enjoy the section at Thurrock where it's threaded under the southbound A282 QE2 Bridge and over the northbound A282, and the Medway crossing alongside the M2 for example.

You will be dissapointed there, HS2 goes under the WCML south of Lichfield in a jacked box. Delta Jn to Interchange should be interesting though with all the grade seperation and going over the M42 and M6.

By the sound of things then, HS2 will similarly be at its most interesting when being threaded through existing infrastructure, where there is no need to hide the railway in a tunnel or screen it off.

 

[The exile]

What about leaning out to get the numbers of trains coming the other way?

(Worked with - most - steam locos and Southern EMUs)

And then braining yourself on the metal grille of the light fitting immediately above the window as you brought your head in smartly as a train came the other way! (Rise Hill tunnel, approx 1982!)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You will be dissapointed there, HS2 goes under the WCML south of Lichfield in a jacked box. Delta Jn to Interchange should be interesting though with all the grade seperation and going over the M42 and M6.

I was going on the original (2010) route map which shows bridges over the existing road/rail infrastructure around Lichfield.
The 2016 map shows, indeed, a sunken route under the whole lot instead.
So no views until you are north of Lichfield - but the distinctive cathedral may still be visible from a distance.