Omicron variant and the measures implemented in response to it

[quantinghome]

recent bad experience then: family relative complaining of Gallbladder, took into hospital month or so ago to then let go and put on tablets, yesterday back in again for same issue - sorry but for me something wrong here!

I was under the impression that say issue arose it got dealt with, to me this seems like flogging a dead horse - take some meds you will be fine - it’s not the right approach regardless going to hospital let alone GP.

We've had similar issues with family members having treatment delayed or treatment that hasn't worked. But surely this is an issue with medicine in general? Ultimately, funding matters. If doctors have more time to deal with each case, better diagnostic equipment and better treatment options then outcomes will be better. But this requires money at the end of the day.

 

[Eyersey468]

I think the problem on restrictions is that nobody will believe that they will only be for 2-4 weeks. I'm not sold on them either, and what concerns me is that anything introduced in the winter is likely to see mission creep due to "winter strains" etc as has been seen before. It'll end up being March before vague normality returns.

And then they will find excuses to bring them back every winter

 

[bramling]

It's an absolute mental rollercoaster all this. This morning there were encouraging signs Johnson will at least not order a lockdown. But I feel it's very possible he could still go with this. We have to hang on till 5pm to find out.

The fact that it's "only" a news conference is promising. I'd be more bothered, for now, if an 8pm address was being rumoured.

We can surmise that Johnson is being tugged in different directions, a tug of war between SAGE, the backbenchers, hospitality and Labour. At the end of the day Johnson is too weak to make a decision, it will be which of those tugs hardest. Perhaps the only other positive is Sunak seems to be taking an "enough's enough" line.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed. I don't trust the concept of a "circuit breaker". It won't work and theyll just make it drag on.

 

[Eyersey468]

Indeed. I don't trust the concept of a "circuit breaker". It won't work and theyll just make it drag on.

Agree 100%

 

[kristiang85]

It's an absolute mental rollercoaster all this. This morning there were encouraging signs Johnson will at least not order a lockdown. But I feel it's very possible he could still go with this. We have to hang on till 5pm to find out.

Some journalists are saying he won't say anything today, but still there might be a lockdown right after Christmas. The uncertainty is such a killer; I'm meant to be looking forward to this time, but now I'm just constantly stressed as I have no idea how its going to pan out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2021 ==

Indeed. I don't trust the concept of a "circuit breaker". It won't work and theyll just make it drag on.

Absolutely. No circuit breaker has had any kind of demonstrable effect and stayed as a short circuit breaker.

 

[quantinghome]

Just to clarify I do not blame the doctors, nurses, hospital porters etc etc on the ground, they have all tried their best during this. I do however lay blame at the door of successive governments and NHS management.

Agreed. But the solution is to fund the NHS properly, not to rip it up and put a new system in place. Goodness knows the NHS has had enough reorganisations imposed on it by governments.

 

[kez19]

We've had similar issues with family members having treatment delayed or treatment that hasn't worked. But surely this is an issue with medicine in general? Ultimately, funding matters. If doctors have more time to deal with each case, better diagnostic equipment and better treatment options then outcomes will be better. But this requires money at the end of the day.

I agree but it just feels that some don’t care - it’s not giving me a good impression either

 

[bramling]

Indeed. I don't trust the concept of a "circuit breaker". It won't work and theyll just make it drag on.

Yes not least because the NHS is going to continue to be "under pressure". That's not going to stop after two weeks, especially as we can guarantee domestic mixing will continue regardless. Probably all the more so if people are on furlough again.

People did their bit for the NHS last year, and their reward is essentially being told to do one if they dare to seek access to their GP. I'd say patience with the NHS is largely exhausted, and a "save the NHS" message won't be nearly as well received as last year.

 

[kristiang85]

Agreed. But the solution is to fund the NHS properly, not to rip it up and put a new system in place. Goodness knows the NHS has had enough reorganisations imposed on it by governments.

The NHS has plenty of funding. It is just wasted outrageously.

The reorganisations just seem to end up adding bureaucracy and layers of management. The whole thing needs dismantling and starting again. Pretty much impossible, I know, but funding is categorically not the problem.

 

[MikeWM]

My bet would be a return to 'step 2' fairly soon (probably between Christmas and New Year).

Why? Because the things that are closed at 'step 2' and open at 'step 3' are precisely the places many were trying to push 'vaccine passports' last winter/spring.

This time, given the continual division and 'othering' that has now been stirred up against those not taking the vaccine, they'll be in a better place to try push them as a condition for such places reopening.

But then I think most of what has happened over the last 18 months has been to introduce 'permission papers', so I would think that. If you have a different explanation of what is going on, your opinion on what is next may differ.

 

[kez19]

Agreed. But the solution is to fund the NHS properly, not to rip it up and put a new system in place. Goodness knows the NHS has had enough reorganisations imposed on it by governments.

I agree but can I then ask then if we look at that phrase “protect the NHS” who are we really protecting is it the workers or managers/management? This is just curiosity, as media at times seem to imply workers but will speak to managers or off shoots ie NHS Confederation (just a random one off top my head)

 

[brick60000]

I give up

I hope all of those who want restrictions are happy with themselves- - you truly have no idea the pain, suffering and misery that you are causing to so many across the Country.

+1. Post Christmas restrictions are a ludicrous concept. Well and truly the definition of bolting the stable after the horse has bolted and purely a visual attempt to show we are doing something.

I won’t be the only one that has felt a crushing and teared up over this abusive uncertainty.

Some journalists are saying he won't say anything today, but still there might be a lockdown right after Christmas. The uncertainty is such a killer; I'm meant to be looking forward to this time, but now I'm just constantly stressed as I have no idea how its going to pan out.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2021 ==



Absolutely. No circuit breaker has had any kind of demonstrable effect and stayed as a short circuit breaker.

The uncertainty is breaking me. If I know what’s coming, at least I can prepare.

focus on work today = zero

 

[kristiang85]

+1. Post Christmas restrictions are a ludicrous concept. Well and truly the definition of bolting the stable after the horse has bolted and purely a visual attempt to show we are doing something.

Exactly. If it was a genuine public health emergency (and let's face it - any kind of restriction should only come in due to such an emergency), then it should happen immediately not on a date in a week's time. If that's the case, then it is not an emergency.

They are just playing with our mental health and morale, and quite clearly don't give a flying .... .

 

[bramling]

My bet would be a return to 'step 2' fairly soon (probably between Christmas and New Year).

Why? Because the things that are closed at 'step 2' and open at 'step 3' are precisely the places many were trying to push 'vaccine passports' last winter/spring.

This time, given the continual division and 'othering' that has now been stirred up against those not taking the vaccine, they'll be in a better place to try push them as a condition for such places reopening.

But then I think most of what has happened over the last 18 months has been to introduce 'permission papers', so I would think that. If you have a different explanation of what is going on, your opinion on what is next may differ.

I must admit to being quite cynical walking to Sainsbury's earlier, seeing one of those electronic billboards with a government ad focussed on "collect your free NHS Covid pass now".

It would work quite well from a nefarious perspective to get everything closed again, and then when re-opened only accessible to those who are injected. Then if you're naughty and get caught not wearing a mask somewhere then your pass gets suspended, two weeks for a first offence then the length of suspension getting longer each time. Then if you're involved in a political protest, and finally if you're heard to say anything against Supreme Boris.

 

[DanNCL]

As things currently stand there won’t be either a news conference nor a statement today from Downing Street. Of course there’s always a (high) chance that could change, but as things stand there’s nothing from Downing Street. Would I be too optimistic to say that no news may be good news?

 

[bramling]

Exactly. If it was a genuine public health emergency (and let's face it - any kind of restriction should only come in due to such an emergency), then it should happen immediately not on a date in a week's time. If that's the case, then it is not an emergency.

They are just playing with our mental health and morale, and quite clearly don't give a flying .... .

Yes it's either an emergency or it's not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2021 ==

As things currently stand there won’t be either a news conference nor a statement today from Downing Street. Of course there’s always a (high) chance that could change, but as things stand there’s nothing from Downing Street. Would I be too optimistic to say that no news may be good news?

I'd say not really. More likely there's a massive barney going on at No.10, and it will be whatever the result is of that which determines the next step. To put it a different way, who manages to hit Johnson hardest.

 

[YorkshireBear]

As things currently stand there won’t be either a news conference nor a statement today from Downing Street. Of course there’s always a (high) chance that could change, but as things stand there’s nothing from Downing Street. Would I be too optimistic to say that no news may be good news?

I would say no news is worse, no news means they don't yet want to give us the real news and are waiting for Christmas to pass or something similar.

 

[quantinghome]

The NHS has plenty of funding. It is just wasted outrageously.

The reooganisations just seem to end up adding bureaucracy and layers of management. The whole thing needs dismantling and starting again. Pretty much impossible, I know, but funding is categorically not the problem.

I'm sure efficiencies could be made, particularly by ending the pointless internal market, a set up which appears to have been imposed for ideological reasons rather than improving patient care. But then there are efficiencies that the NHS brings to bear, particularly applying its purchasing power to the cost of medicine.

But overall UK health care funding (primarily through the NHS) is about average for OECD countries. Compared to other developed countries, it's better by some measures and worse in other.

The NHS at 70: How good is the NHS? (nuffieldtrust.org.uk)

Anyway, I think I've tested the admins' patience enough with this off-topic diversion, important though it is.

 

[bramling]

I would say no news is worse, no news means they don't yet want to give us the real news and are waiting for Christmas to pass or something similar.

It's probably also the case that there is some level of awareness that an announcement now regarding Christmas could prove pretty incendiary, especially after all the circus of the last few weeks.

 

[quantinghome]

I agree but can I then ask then if we look at that phrase “protect the NHS” who are we really protecting is it the workers or managers/management? This is just curiosity, as media at times seem to imply workers but will speak to managers or off shoots ie NHS Confederation (just a random one off top my head)

Protecting patients firstly. Making sure we're not in a situation where people needing a hospital bed are turned away. Also protecting NHS staff from burn-out.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It's probably also the case that there is some level of awareness that an announcement now regarding Christmas could prove pretty incendiary, especially after all the circus of the last few weeks.

Absolutely add that to the reasons too, probably more likely than waiting for Christmas actually.

 

[DustyBin]

Exactly. If it was a genuine public health emergency (and let's face it - any kind of restriction should only come in due to such an emergency), then it should happen immediately not on a date in a week's time. If that's the case, then it is not an emergency.

They are just playing with our mental health and morale, and quite clearly don't give a flying .... .

Precisely this, and it's becoming normalised just as many of us feared it would.

 

[MikeWM]

I must admit to being quite cynical walking to Sainsbury's earlier, seeing one of those electronic billboards with a government ad focussed on "collect your free NHS Covid pass now".

It would work quite well from a nefarious perspective to get everything closed again, and then when re-opened only accessible to those who are injected. Then if you're naughty and get caught not wearing a mask somewhere then your pass gets suspended, two weeks for a first offence then the length of suspension getting longer each time. Then if you're involved in a political protest, and finally if you're heard to say anything against Supreme Boris.

Indeed, which is precisely how social credit systems work.

Note how many of the 'restrictions' we've had have involved getting permission to do something ('need to wear a mask', 'need to sign in', 'need to check there aren't too many people in here already', 'need to book ahead') that previously we've done freely.

We've got fairly used to this behaviour change, and it appears we're about to have one more round of it, so then they can 'make it all easier' with a Covid app (or, as they are experimenting with in Sweden, a microchip implanted in the wrist - yep, another conspiracy theory comes true...)

Tin-foil-hat time? Maybe, but doesn't it seem rather closer and rather more likely now, than when I was saying the same things 15 months ago?

 

[kez19]

Protecting patients firstly. Making sure we're not in a situation where people needing a hospital bed are turned away. Also protecting NHS staff from burn-out.

I could argue that differently, patient turned up, given bed to be later chucked out - so unfortunately for me that’s a big no! (family relative)

How are we protecting patients first? I don’t follow or get that? I could be having a heart attack waiting hours then possibly die - how is that protecting me? (nothing personal at you here), that’s not protecting that’s negligence?

 

[adc82140]

OK, to anyone who is in favour of a circuit breaker. I work for the NHS. I have booked a couple of nights away on the Isle Of Wight starting on 28th. Self contained. Do you really think I should be told no, you don't deserve a holiday. Sit at home staring at the walls. There is no further leave available for me until Easter. So much for that then.

 

[bramling]

Indeed, which is precisely how social credit systems work.

Note how many of the 'restrictions' we've had have involved getting permission to do something ('need to wear a mask', 'need to sign in', 'need to check there aren't too many people in here already', 'need to book ahead') that previously we've done freely.

We've got fairly used to this behaviour change, and it appears we're about to have one more round of it, so then they can 'make it all easier' with a Covid app (or, as they are experimenting with in Sweden, a microchip implanted in the wrist - yep, another conspiracy theory comes true...)

Tin-foil-hat time? Maybe, but doesn't it seem rather closer and rather more likely now, than when I was saying the same things 15 months ago?

There's also the element that any social credit system can also function as a cash cow. It may be the case that the "free NHS Covid pass" is free now, but will it always be? Like when my road grew a CPZ scheme (which it never really needed - it got railroaded in on the basis of "other areas are getting them, you need to protect yourselves"). Started off at £35 for a permit, now it's over three times that.

 

[MikeWM]

There's also the element that any social credit system can also function as a cash cow. It may be the case that the "free NHS Covid pass" is free now, but will it always be? Like when my road grew a CPZ scheme (which it never really needed - it got railroaded in on the basis of "other areas are getting them, you need to protect yourselves"). Started off at £35 for a permit, now it's over three times that.

Or indeed University Tuition Fees - whatever one's opinion of them, if they'd tried to start them at 9k a year they never would have got them through. They started at 'just' 1k a year, and then boiled the frog.

Unfortunately politicians - and/or the people behind the politicians - know what they're doing and how to do it.

 

[Bungle73]

44 deaths recorded today, so what is this "crisis" we're supposed to be in and need restrictions for exactly?

 

[kristiang85]

Growth already seems to be slowing, on a day-of-week basis (credit to Andrew Lilico):