Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[EdChap]

Perhaps 701025 is the only working unit! Perhaps they are trying to get one unit accepted by the end of the year to tell everybody how well they are doing!!

 

[Nogoohwell]

The only unit I ever see out 701025 is out again working 5Q13 just left Waterloo

Well at least they have one unit working

 

[Box]

Strangely the only one I ever see is 701004, which was at Waterloo again yesterday.

 

[444045]

Saw 701031 at Eastleigh yesterday, came out of the depot and went into the works again!!

 

[fgwrich]

Perhaps 701025 is the only working unit! Perhaps they are trying to get one unit accepted by the end of the year to tell everybody how well they are doing!!

The mileage on this one must be considerably higher than the others by now as it seems to have found itself out almost weekly since April.

Others that look to have been let out are: 004, 016, 025, 028, 031 and an occasional but limited appearance of unbranded 002.

 

[dingdinger]

The mileage on this one must be considerably higher than the others by now as it seems to have found itself out almost weekly since April.

Others that look to have been let out are: 004, 016, 025, 028, 031 and an occasional but limited appearance of unbranded 002.

Spotted 025 again! It will be working 5Q03 13:00 from Waterloo

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Make no mistake about this, this is not a good source I know - and I’m not claiming it is - but I assumed you’d like to know anyway so that those who do have the knowledge can say if it’s true or not - comments on an IG post made by a SW driver suggest it’s ASLEF disputes over windscreens that are causing delay to their driver training and service introduction

 

[dingdinger]

Make no mistake about this, this is not a good source I know - and I’m not claiming it is - but I assumed you’d like to know anyway so that those who do have the knowledge can say if it’s true or not - comments on an IG post made by a SW driver suggest it’s ASLEF disputes over windscreens that are causing delay to their driver training and service introduction

They haven't been handed over to SWR as of yet so please correct if wrong but that surely can't be the current reason for the delay.

 

[mangyiscute]

Was changing trains at Ascot and spotted 701004 , managed to snap a picture just before it left

 

[spark001uk]

Yes I think it's 004 and 023 that are out and about lately.
On another note, 47727 and 701017 were allocated to 5Q10 Litchurch - Eastleigh this morning, but has since been canned. Looks like it may have been due to return a unit north on 5Q15 too, so I assume that likely won't run either.

 

[Bigfoot]

Make no mistake about this, this is not a good source I know - and I’m not claiming it is - but I assumed you’d like to know anyway so that those who do have the knowledge can say if it’s true or not - comments on an IG post made by a SW driver suggest it’s ASLEF disputes over windscreens that are causing delay to their driver training and service introduction

One of the many, many reasons.

 

[Ilovetrains43]

I think it won't be long before they finally enter service as 455s have recently bowed out which could suggest that the 701s are imminent into service.

 

[Goldfish62]

So, crystal ball gazing, I wonder how things will look this time next year. I suspect one of these in no particular order:

1. At least some 701s in service.
2. No 701s in service, testing continues.
3. 701s rejected as not fit for purpose.

2 and 3 accompanied by major rolling stock shortage resulting in timetable cuts and bustitutions.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So, crystal ball gazing, I wonder how things will look this time next year. I suspect one of these in no particular order:

1. At least some 701s in service.
2. No 701s in service, testing continues.
3. 701s rejected as not fit for purpose.

2 and 3 accompanied by major rolling stock shortage resulting in timetable cuts and bustitutions.

or 4 keep the 455's going and refurbish (again) the 458's as a contingency

 

[Bigfoot]

So, crystal ball gazing, I wonder how things will look this time next year. I suspect one of these in no particular order:

1. At least some 701s in service.
2. No 701s in service, testing continues.
3. 701s rejected as not fit for purpose.

2 and 3 accompanied by major rolling stock shortage resulting in timetable cuts and bustitutions.

I'd put a fair chunk of cash on number one.

 

[FOCTOC]

Yes I think it's 004 and 023 that are out and about lately.
On another note, 47727 and 701017 were allocated to 5Q10 Litchurch - Eastleigh this morning, but has since been canned. Looks like it may have been due to return a unit north on 5Q15 too, so I assume that likely won't run either.

Correct on both of the latter. Canned due to defects on the 701.

 

[hwl]

I'd put a fair chunk of cash on number one.

Agreed, so would I. The limitation on units in service at the end of 2022 would most likely be due to the rate at which SWR could do driver training.

 

[AlexNL]

I think it won't be long before they finally enter service as 455s have recently bowed out which could suggest that the 701s are imminent into service.

I've been told that has to do with those specific 455 units are either broken or due for a major exam/overhaul.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'd put a fair chunk of cash on number one.

Normally I would but did anyone expect that by the end of this year SWR still wouldn't have accepted a single unit, let alone put any into service?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2021 ==

or 4 keep the 455's going and refurbish (again) the 458's as a contingency

In the case of the 701s being rejected I don't think there'd been any other option.

 

[Bigfoot]

Normally I would but did anyone expect that by the end of this year SWR still wouldn't have accepted a single unit, let alone put any into service?

Seems that time is being taken to get it/them right before a full and fairly quick introduction.

 

[davews]

Was changing trains at Ascot and spotted 701004 , managed to snap a picture just before it left

And seen at Martins Heron at 1620. I was tempted despite the 'please don't board' tapes to press the door release button and see what happened but didn't... It amuses me that the platform announced 'next train does not stop at this station' but clearly did.

Fingers crossed that some of them will be used for SWR training pretty soon.

 

[43096]

And seen at Martins Heron at 1620. I was tempted despite the 'please don't board' tapes to press the door release button and see what happened but didn't... It amuses me that the platform announced 'next train does not stop at this station' but clearly did.

Just seen the same set at Bracknell. Good to see they are being tested with something more like a real world duty cycle by stopping and releasing doors. Quite often testing just consists of lots of non-stop running and then they're surprised when the door faults occur once in service.

 

[fgwrich]

So, crystal ball gazing, I wonder how things will look this time next year. I suspect one of these in no particular order:

1. At least some 701s in service.
2. No 701s in service, testing continues.
3. 701s rejected as not fit for purpose.

2 and 3 accompanied by major rolling stock shortage resulting in timetable cuts and bustitutions.

Well, at least Versions 2 and 3 will please the treasury - Less trains, less services. Cutbacks by stealth (and in this theoretical case Bombardier inadvertently helping the treasury). Remember, it's becoming more increasingly obvious that it's them calling the shots these days (over the equally incompetent DfT).

Correct on both of the latter. Canned due to defects on the 701.

There's a surprise!

I did see a photo on Facebook of a completed 5 car at Alstom's Litchurch lane the other day, so it seems they are carrying on with the construction of those.

 

[3rd rail land]

So, crystal ball gazing, I wonder how things will look this time next year. I suspect one of these in no particular order:

1. At least some 701s in service.
2. No 701s in service, testing continues.
3. 701s rejected as not fit for purpose.

2 and 3 accompanied by major rolling stock shortage resulting in timetable cuts and bustitutions.

I think 1 is the only viable option all other things being equal. Without permitting major overhauls/exams there would be a chronic shortage of rolling stock. I expect some of the units currently needing repair would need to be fixed to have enough rolling stock as well.

As for 3 do you think the DfT/Treasury would even consider allowing an entirely new fleet of trains to be ordered and for the 701s to not even see a single mile in passenger service?

 

[Goldfish62]

I think 1 is the only viable option all other things being equal. Without permitting major overhauls/exams there would be a chronic shortage of rolling stock. I expect some of the units currently needing repair would need to be fixed to have enough rolling stock as well.

As for 3 do you think the DfT/Treasurey would even consider allowing an entirely new fleet of trains to be ordered and for the 701s to not even see a single mile in passenger service?

Well, if ASLEF continue to refuse to drive them it doesn't matter how viable option 1 is, it won't happen.

As for Option 3, no of course not. We're unlikely to see any new rolling stock ordered for the national network for a long time. However, it wouldn't be the first time in Europe that new rolling stock has been rejected and in this case retention of the 455s would surely be the only option.

 

[fgwrich]

I think 1 is the only viable option all other things being equal. Without permitting major overhauls/exams there would be a chronic shortage of rolling stock. I expect some of the units currently needing repair would need to be fixed to have enough rolling stock as well.

As for 3 do you think the DfT/Treasurey would even consider allowing an entirely new fleet of trains to be ordered and for the 701s to not even see a single mile in passenger service?

With the Treasury the way it is at the moment, Yes. The egg would be on South Western / Rock Rail / Alstom’s fault than the DfT’s, and a reduced size fleet would please those in Whitehall. The unions can play the safety card again, the DfT the “we didn’t order these this time” card.

Bearing in mind these were ordered in 2017, due into service at the start of December 2019, 2 years later we are still without a single unit nowhere near ready to enter service or any SWR drivers trained or units handed over, it isn’t a great start for the fleet.

 

[Goldfish62]

Bearing in mind these were ordered in 2017, due into service at the start of December 2019, 2 years later we are still without a single unit nowhere near ready to enter service or any SWR drivers trained or units handed over, it isn’t a great start for the fleet.

Quite a contrast to Liverpool Street when I was passing through the other day. Packed full of 345s, 710s and 720s all going about their business.

 

[444045]

Does anyone know which 701 is on 5Q69 13+24 Wimbledon Park to Bournemouth Depot today please ? Going for its mods (118 of them).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Meerkat]

Well, if ASLEF continue to refuse to drive them it doesn't matter how viable option 1 is, it won't happen.

Do ASLEF have legal powers to say the trains arent safe or would they have to test that in court?
What happens if the DfT go nuclear? Hypothetically, confident that the public and a court will back the DfT on whether the trains have been modified enough to be safe and looking for a fight, they say "you drive them or you are breaching contract and will get your notice".
Do ASLEF then have to take a test case for wrongful dismissal?

Obviously the chances of that happening are for another thread, the question here is do ASLEF have any power to totally prevent introduction of the 701s other than a strike (and could they legally get the other drivers out on strike or only the metro drivers due to drive the things?)

 

[spark001uk]

Does anyone know which 701 is on 5Q69 13+24 Wimbledon Park to Bournemouth Depot today please ? Going for its mods (118 of them).

Thanks in advance.

Can't be certain at this moment, but I can tell you 701025 is currently on its way to wim pk from Feltham depot on 5Q68. Seems plausible being one headcode number below it but don't quote me on that, it could be swapping for another at wim pk.