Caught expired railcard

[mynameis]

Hi all,

Firstly, hope everyone’s safe and doing well.

I need your advice please with this desperate situation.

I was travelling from Basingstoke to London. I got to London around 18:00 and it was super busy so I tried to scan my ticket but it would not let me so I went to the staff near the gate and he asked me for my rail card (16-25). I didn’t have the app so I went on the website and found it was expired on Feb 2021. I bought my railcard just before covid/lockdown happened so I haven’t used rail/train as I have been working from home since beginning of Feb 2020 and have only recently started using rail from beginning of 2021. So when I saw it had expired, I tried to renew but the man told me to stop what I was doing and took me to one of the inspectors.

I had made 7 journeys so far including the one where I got caught throughout 2021. I usually buy my train ticket through Trainline since my uni days and I didn’t notice that I got discounted with my rail card.

Anyways, the inspector lady starting taking my personal details and asked me few questions regarding the railcard to which I answered her honestly. I told her I have never received an email regarding expiry date, I even checked my email and showed it to her- there was none except one which was in 2018. I also mentioned to her train train crew/conductor had checked ticket but never asked for rail card. If they had did then probably would have made me aware. Even so, I am well aware that it is my responsibility to check and use it correctly.

I apologised to her and asked if I could buy new ticket but she replied with you will receive letter in a few days. She took the ticket for evidence which is fair and then asked me to sign that’s when I panicked. The first sentence I saw was ‘you could be prosecuted’ since then I have not been able to focus at all. That evening I went to see my friends but all I could think of was the worst scenarios in my head.

So around 11pm I returned home from London’ I was in tears trying to explain it to my parents. However they were very sweet and said everyone makes mistakes and you didn’t do it intentionally. If you explain yourself why and how it happened, I’m sure they will hear you.

I’m so shooked, frightened and scarred for life. This is my first ever time where I have been in this kind of situation. Since yesterday I have been literally searching up and reading forums, I have come across few where they were settled by paying fines. In my case, will they take me to court or would I have chance to explain myself and possibly settle with fine? I’m literally shaking at the thoughts of having criminal records.

Guys, please help me. I need your advice and thoughts on this. I would be very grateful and appreciate of your help in this desperate situation of mine.

Many thanks.


P.S : I bought new ticket on the way back from LONDON, this time I made sure there was no railcard used and renewed my railcard too.

 

[Gloster]

I will say welcome to the forum, although I am sure you would rather not be here. You will get some from very good advice from some very knowledgeable people on this forum, of which I am not one, but it is late on a Saturday night and it may be a few days before they look at the forum. Presuming that you gave the inspector your correct address, the railway will write to you in a few weeks (possibly longer at the moment due to Omicron, Christmas, etc.) and then you can deal with the matter. You will just have to wait for the letter. As I said, I am not an expert, but this does not seem to be at the serious end of the scale. Do not worry.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

Firstly, hope everyone’s safe and doing well.

I need your advice please with this desperate situation.

I was travelling from Basingstoke to London. I got to London around 18:00 and it was super busy so I tried to scan my ticket but it would not let me so I went to the staff near the gate and he asked me for my rail card (16-25). I didn’t have the app so I went on the website and found it was expired on Feb 2021. I bought my railcard just before covid/lockdown happened so I haven’t used rail/train as I have been working from home since beginning of Feb 2020 and have only recently started using rail from beginning of 2021. So when I saw it had expired, I tried to renew but the man told me to stop what I was doing and took me to one of the inspectors.

I had made 7 journeys so far including the one where I got caught throughout 2021. I usually buy my train ticket through Trainline since my uni days and I didn’t notice that I got discounted with my rail card.

Anyways, the inspector lady starting taking my personal details and asked me few questions regarding the railcard to which I answered her honestly. I told her I have never received an email regarding expiry date, I even checked my email and showed it to her- there was none except one which was in 2018. I also mentioned to her train train crew/conductor had checked ticket but never asked for rail card. If they had did then probably would have made me aware. Even so, I am well aware that it is my responsibility to check and use it correctly.

I apologised to her and asked if I could buy new ticket but she replied with you will receive letter in a few days. She took the ticket for evidence which is fair and then asked me to sign that’s when I panicked. The first sentence I saw was ‘you could be prosecuted’ since then I have not been able to focus at all. That evening I went to see my friends but all I could think of was the worst scenarios in my head.

So around 11pm I returned home from London’ I was in tears trying to explain it to my parents. However they were very sweet and said everyone makes mistakes and you didn’t do it intentionally. If you explain yourself why and how it happened, I’m sure they will hear you.

I’m so shooked, frightened and scarred for life. This is my first ever time where I have been in this kind of situation. Since yesterday I have been literally searching up and reading forums, I have come across few where they were settled by paying fines. In my case, will they take me to court or would I have chance to explain myself and possibly settle with fine? I’m literally shaking at the thoughts of having criminal records.

Guys, please help me. I need your advice and thoughts on this. I would be very grateful and appreciate of your help in this desperate situation of mine.

Many thanks.


P.S : I bought new ticket on the way back from LONDON, this time I made sure there was no railcard used and renewed my railcard too.

So I assume this happened at London Waterloo and it was South Western Railway Trains staff?

They will write to you soon, and you will have the chance to reply to explain what happened (you need to use a shorter simpler version of your post), apologise and offer to pay the correct fares that were owed during the period that your railcard had expired and you had not noticed due to pandemic related rare travel. Make it clear it had never been your intention to travel without a valid ticket in your reply.

List out those journeys and if you need help we can tell you what they ought to have cost so you can prepare for the sum concerned (for example it may be that the railway would expect you to now pay the full 'Anytime' fare for the journey as they may deem the discounted tickets you had to be completely invalid (which is technically correct if you read your railcard conditions). Chances are you will have to pay those fares and maybe about £100 'admin fee' if a settlement is offered.

When you get you letter from the railway company you need to reply promptly (so if you are a student and gave them eg non term address, or may move address soon for example you need someone to check your post frequently and alert you to any letter, or pay for a Royal Mail redirect).

People on the forum can advise you on form of words if you post your draft reply when the time comes.

The letter you have to reply to is your chance to explain and offer to settle the matter without court action. I think it is highly likely that you will be able to do this because in general the railway will not want to take you to court, so do not worry too much. Technically you have committed a ticket offence that could result in court action, but if you engage with the process (as it is clear you are keen to do) I think the chances of court action are slim - so do not worry too much.

By renewing your railcard you have helped make it clear that you have taken steps to avoid this problem for the next year - so that is good.

This will def not scarr you for life IMHO, so do not worry too much.

If you (or indeed your parents who sound supportive) have any other questions about this and what to expect feel free to post them.

Good luck and don't worry.

BTW - there have been quite a few similar 'forgotten railcard had expired' cases like this in recent months on this forum so you are not alone and you could look up some for the advice given and the outcomes if that helps you

 

[30907]

Just to add that, even if you are taken to court, many reports suggest that you will be charged under the Railway Byelaws which is a "non-recordable" offence, so you won't get a criminal record. In the worst case your record will be "spent" after a year, and either way it will be of minimal interest to a future employer etc.

 

[mynameis]

So I assume this happened at London Waterloo and it was South West Trains staff?

They will write to you soon, and you will have the chance to reply to explain what happened (you need to use a shorter simpler version of your post), apologise and offer to pay the correct fares that were owed during the period that your railcard had expired and you had not noticed due to pandemic related rare travel. Make it clear it had never been your intention to travel without a valid ticket in your reply.

List out those journeys and if you need help we can tell you what they ought to have cost so you can prepare for the sum concerned (for example it may be that the railway would expect you to now pay the full 'Anytime' fare for the journey as they may deem the discounted tickets you had to be completely invalid (which is technically correct if you read your railcard conditions). Chances are you will have to pay those fares and maybe about £100 'admin fee' if a settlement is offered.

When you get you letter from the railway company you need to reply promptly (so if you are a student and gave them eg non term address, or may move address soon for example you need someone to check your post frequently and alert you to any letter, or pay for a Royal Mail redirect).

People on the forum can advise you on form of words if you post your draft reply when the time comes.

The letter you have to reply to is your chance to explain and offer to settle the matter without court action. I think it is highly likely that you will be able to do this because in general the railway will not want to take you to court, so do not worry too much. Technically you have committed a ticket offence that could result in court action, but if you engage with the process (as it is clear you are keen to do) I think the chances of court action are slim - so do not worry too much.

By renewing your railcard you have helped make it clear that you have taken steps to avoid this problem for the next year - so that is good.

This will def not scarr you for life IMHO, so do not worry too much.

If you (or indeed your parents who sound supportive) have any other questions about this and what to expect feel free to post them.

Good luck and don't worry.

BTW - there have been quite a few similar 'forgotten railcard had expired' cases like this in recent months on this forum so you are not alone and you could look up some for the advice given and the outcomes if that helps you

Hi,

Yes that’s right London Waterloo and south west train members.

No, I gave my home address so hopefully I will receive it soon. When I receive the letter, do I reply to them through post or e-mail ? Or do I go see them in person?

Yes, I renewed my card the next day- I fully understand it’s my responsibility to check and use valid railcard which I failed to do so therefore I’m very much willing to settle with them. Like you said, I checked and I have made 7 journeys including the one where I got caught which are as follows: 4 x (Basingstoke to London Waterloo - return), 1 x (Bournemouth to Basingstoke - single), 1 x (Farnborough Main to Basingstoke - single), 1 x (Basingstoke to Reading - return).

I have also been reading a lot of forums and comments so they have been very helpful. And thank you ever so much for your advice means a lot to me. I am truly grateful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2021 ==

Just to add that, even if you are taken to court, many reports suggest that you will be charged under the Railway Byelaws which is a "non-recordable" offence, so you won't get a criminal record. In the worst case your record will be "spent" after a year, and either way it will be of minimal interest to a future employer etc.

Hi,

Thank you for your comment. I read few forum which said slim chance of getting criminal records because of fraud so I’m scared. Hopefully they will agree to settle.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2021 ==

I will say welcome to the forum, although I am sure you would rather not be here. You will get some from very good advice from some very knowledgeable people on this forum, of which I am not one, but it is late on a Saturday night and it may be a few days before they look at the forum. Presuming that you gave the inspector your correct address, the railway will write to you in a few weeks (possibly longer at the moment due to Omicron, Christmas, etc.) and then you can deal with the matter. You will just have to wait for the letter. As I said, I am not an expert, but this does not seem to be at the serious end of the scale. Do not worry.

Thank you, so far I have received few very good advices. And yes, I did give out correct address and like you said it might take little longer to get here till then I’ll keep reading forums and seek advices through knowledgeable people on this forum.

 

[AlterEgo]

There is zero prospect of an accusation of fraud in the circumstances the OP describes.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,

Yes that’s right London Waterloo and south west train members.

No, I gave my home address so hopefully I will receive it soon. When I receive the letter, do I reply to them through post or e-mail ? Or do I go see them in person?

I would expect South Western Railway (SWR) Trains (SWT) to write to you by letter in the post. If that has an e-mail address on it to reply to you can use that, but I would also print a copy of your e-mail reply and post it to the address that will be on the letter, and I would send that 'Registered Post' (that means you get a proof of delivery from Royal Mail). I suspect that is not vital but it is what I would do.

You will not need to see them in person.

You can post a draft of your reply on this thread if you like, when you have it ready, if you want anyone to check it / suggest any amends.

Just for other forum members, do we know if SWR do this work in house or do they have it contracted out to the likes of TIL?

 

[island]

I would expect South West Trains (SWT) to write to you by letter in the post. If that has an e-mail address on it to reply to you can use that, but I would also print a copy of your e-mail reply and post it to the address that will be on the letter, and I would send that 'Registered Post' (that means you get a proof of delivery from Royal Mail). I suspect that is not vital but it is what I would do.

You will not need to see them in person.

You can post a draft of your reply on this thread if you like, when you have it ready, if you want anyone to check it / suggest any amends.

Just for other forum members, do we know if SWT do this work in house or do they have it contracted out to the likes of TIL?

I would not expect South West Trains, which ceased operations in 2017, to be writing anything, nor will it be possible to send anything by "registered post", which ceased to be offered in 1998. South Western Railway handle things like this themselves.

When the letter arrives the OP could post it here (blocking out personal details) and we will advise further.

 

[WesternLancer]

I would not expect South West Trains, which ceased operations in 2017, to be writing anything, nor will it be possible to send anything by "registered post", which ceased to be offered in 1998. South Western Railway handle things like this themselves.

When the letter arrives the OP could post it here (blocking out personal details) and we will advise further.

As it was put to Roger Thornhill, they are all in the same alphabet soup.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2021 ==

Like you said, I checked and I have made 7 journeys including the one where I got caught which are as follows: 4 x (Basingstoke to London Waterloo - return), 1 x (Bournemouth to Basingstoke - single), 1 x (Farnborough Main to Basingstoke - single), 1 x (Basingstoke to Reading - return).

I am not sure what SWR's policy is but they may expect to charge for undiscouted full price 'Anytime' tickets for these journeys (even if you made them at off peak times) - this could be because an off peak ticket is in reality already a discounted fare. So if they are prepared to offer a settlement the prices for those would be:

If I have them correct

Basingstoke to London Waterloo - return x4 : £51.20 anytime rtn x 4 occasions (as opposed to £27.20 off peak rtn)
Bournemouth to Basingstoke - single : £31.30 (as opposed to £26 off peak)
Farnborough Main to Basingstoke - single : £8.10 (as opposed to £8 off peak)
Basingstoke to Reading - return : £9 (as opposed £7.20 off peak)

Total £253.20

I think that would be the maximum in fares they would ask for for those journeys. You may be able to request, when you reply, that eg sums you have already paid towards your correct fare be taken into consideration and if they were OK with that it would reduce the total sum.

You may want to keep a copy (screenshot or print out) of the evidence of those tickets bought and the sum you paid so you have it to hand when you do your reply.

 

[MotCO]

@mynameis Since it may be a few weeks before you are asked to respond to SWT, it may be useful if you could note down now what actually happened and what was said before you forget the details. Over the next few days you may remember more points so you can add to the notes. These notes are for your eyes only, not necessarily to be shared with this forum.

 

[WesternLancer]

@mynameis Since it may be a few weeks before you are asked to respond to SWT, it may be useful if you could note down now what actually happened and what was said before you forget the details. Over the next few days you may remember more points so you can add to the notes. These notes are for your eyes only, not necessarily to be shared with this forum.

This is particularity good advice IMHO.