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People here will be happy to help but bear in mind:
a) they will aim to explain best to you how the official process works to help you understand it (even if people might also think it is wrong or not a good process!)
b) help you respond in such a way that minimizes the problems you then face (eg amount of fine or penalty / risk of criminal record for fare evasion etc)
Probably good if you can say where it was that the incident happened (ie where you were getting off, as I think it was Shadwell that you mentioned as where you got on the train) -as per post #29 by @Cdd89
Was your exit station a staffed station (apart from by the people carrying out this revenue operation)? If it is, it would make it less likely that it was a fraudulent operation.
Probably good if you can say where it was that the incident happened (ie where you were getting off, as I think it was Shadwell that you mentioned as where you got on the train)
Thanks - apols I had confused that with the entry station. editied my post. (we would probably need to know both entry and exit to help with OP draft any written reply to TfL, I've probably missed the entry location up thread too....)
Thanks - apols I had confused that with the entry station. editied my post. (we would probably need to know both entry and exit to help with OP draft any written reply to TfL, I've probably missed the entry location up thread too....)
People here will be happy to help but bear in mind:
a) they will aim to explain best to you how the official process works to help you understand it (even if people might also think it is wrong or not a good process!)
b) help you respond in such a way that minimizes the problems you then face (eg amount of fine or penalty / risk of criminal record for fare evasion etc)
Probably good if you can say where it was that the incident happened (ie where you were getting off, as I think it was Shadwell that you mentioned as where you got on the train) -as per post #29 by @Cdd89
Regarding the payment. I check it TFL website.
Pay online, pay by phone, pay by post. Never metion pay in the spot/ station by card or by cash or by providing bank card long number.
As above, you stated that you may not have touched in correctly - were you able to use ApplePay later in the day? And did the inspector at Shadwell attempt to read or register a touch on your phone?
As above, you stated that you may not have touched in correctly - were you able to use ApplePay later in the day? And did the inspector at Shadwell attempt to read or register a touch on your phone?
I will try again when I go home later. It seems he does not want to use his machine to check my applepay. He said that if I checked your applepay and found out you did not touch in, you will be consider as fare evasion.
If you pay now, we wont record your name and anything. It is better for you.
After he said that I though I may not touch my phone succefully and then I will get the fare evasion.
I just agreed to pay the penalty and I though I did not want to make myself into trouble for £40.
They did not check my applepay at all.
We spend a long time to discuss how to make the payment. They try to convince me to pay to them at once.
The way they ask for the payment it make me feel not right.
Why they do not give me a reference number to pay online? That is what my friend had it before.
I think they should have a card machine to pay payment. Not ask for cash and customer bank card number.
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Yes. The TFL website do not give more guideline of this payment.
Why they dont give me a reference number in the station? They try to make me in the position like I refuse to pay them.
It is very suspicious that he claimed he would not be recording your name as this is clearly untrue if they were genuine
However the DLR by the nature of its unattended stations is infested with live CCTV and I would be amazed if scammers were taking such risks for the sake of £40.00
It is very suspicious that he claimed he would not be recording your name as this is clearly untrue if they were genuine
However the DLR by the nature of its unattended stations is infested with live CCTV and I would be amazed if scammers were taking such risks for the sake of £40.00
Maybe I overeact. Maybe I should just pay £40 to him and I do not need to spend so much time to make my research and ask so many advice from different people.
Just to be crystal clear, which of the above is correct? Did they try to check you had tapped in but it didn't work for some reason, or did they make no attempt to see if you'd tapped in?
Just to be crystal clear, which of the above is correct? Did they try to check you had tapped in but it didn't work for some reason, or did they make no attempt to see if you'd tapped in?
I talked to TFL staff just now. One staff tell me their machine could not read apple pay at all. Nobody knows your Apple Pay touch in or out. What he said this morning just scared me and confused myself. I am not sure I touch correctly or not when I am in rush.
TFL staff says they could ask us to pay cash or card for the penalty to them.
I talked to TFL staff just now. One staff tell me their machine could not read apple pay at all. Nobody knows your Apple Pay touch in or out. What he said this morning just scared me and confused myself. I am not sure I touch correctly or not when I am in rush.
TFL staff says they could ask us to pay cash or card for the penalty to them.
Just to be crystal clear, which of the above is correct? Did they try to check you had tapped in but it didn't work for some reason, or did they make no attempt to see if you'd tapped in?
I get off the train and turn back to take another train to go home. I forget to take a file. The officer consider I want to run without the ticket check. But he refuse to check my applepay and questions me. After he made me feel scared, I am not sure I touch in successfully or not. I agreed to pay penalty.
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The more research I make, the more I feel afraid now. I think they change their mind and send me a letter. Otherwise they won’t ask my date of birth. Other people only name and address.
I get this information from this website.
I get off the train and turn back to take another train to go home. I forget to take a file. The officer consider I want to run without the ticket check. But he refuse to check my applepay and questions me. After he made me feel scared, I am not sure I touch in successfully or not. I agreed to pay penalty.
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The more research I make, the more I feel afraid now. I think they change their mind and send me a letter. Otherwise they won’t ask my date of birth. Other people only name and address.
I get this information from this website.
I wonder why You have still not told us if you were charged a maximum fare on that fateful day
We cannot advise further as TFL may take a different view about whether you intended to pay or not depending on the touch in.
I frankly struggle to believe that TFL would issue a penalty fare if they really are unable to check their permitted journey payment methods for what ever reason
I will take the charitable view that when you claim that you are not sure if you touched in or not you don't mean you knew fine well you had not touched in.
I wonder why You have still not told us if you were charged a maximum fare on that fateful day
We cannot advise further as TFL may take a different view about whether you intended to pay or not depending on the touch in.
I frankly struggle to believe that TFL would issue a penalty fare if they really are unable to check their permitted journey payment methods for what ever reason
I will take the charitable view that when you claim that you are not sure if you touched in or not you don't mean you knew fine well you had not touched in.
I didn’t be charged max penalty fare on that day. He asked for £40 ( this is half price.) I only have my phone with me . I did not carry cash or bank card. I could pay by Apple Pay. But they could not accept it. I ask them I could pay online when I am home. They write down my details. If I know it is so serious, I will call my friends to come and pay.
I didn’t be charged max penalty fare on that day. He asked for £40 ( this is half price.) I only have my phone with me . I did not carry cash or bank card. I could pay by Apple Pay. But they could not accept it. I ask them I could pay online when I am home. They write down my details. If I know it is so serious, I will call my friends to come and pay.
Can you clarify
Was your Apple Pay account charged at the end of that day something like £7.00 as a maximum fare which automatically is applied for someone who touched in but did not touch out? ( or touched out but not in)
( NOT £80 which is a penalty fare which is different because it is not automatic and is for someone who did not touch in or out at all)
Can you clarify
Was your Apple Pay account charged at the end of that day something like £7.00 as a maximum fare which automatically is applied for someone who touched in but did not touch out? ( or touched out but not in)
( NOT £80 which is a penalty fare which is different because it is not automatic and is for someone who did not touch in or out at all)
I get your point now.
No charge on my phone. The phone was not be touched successfully when I were in. After they made me feel scared on the morning, I did not touch out as well. I really want to pay £40 on that morning and this is not a big issue for me. I thought I will get a penalty fare in a few days. But it seems like they would send me a letter after I read though other people sharing stories. I feel so stressful now
So with no maximum fare, it’s clear that you didn’t tap in at the start of the journey? My recollection (although I don’t use Apple Pay) is that when you tap in/out at a stand alone reader it beeps to give a positive confirmation that the transaction has been recorded. Is that correct? If so, why would there be any ambiguity as to whether you had tapped in.
So with no maximum fare, it’s clear that you didn’t tap in at the start of the journey? My recollection (although I don’t use Apple Pay) is that when you tap in/out at a stand alone reader it beeps to give a positive confirmation that the transaction has been recorded. Is that correct? If so, why would there be any ambiguity as to whether you had tapped in.
It not only beeps to confirm successful tap in, but also gives a visual confirmation.
Conversely, it beeps differently if it doesn't successfully tap in for any reason having been presented. It also gives a visual confirmation of this.
Of course, it does nothing at all if it's not presented at all.
I get off the train and turn back to take another train to go home. I forget to take a file. The officer consider I want to run without the ticket check. But he refuse to check my applepay and questions me. After he made me feel scared, I am not sure I touch in successfully or not. I agreed to pay penalty.
For what it's worth, some of the oldest tricks when it comes to fare evasion are not tapping in at an unbarriered station, doing a u-turn when revenue protection is spotted and failing to provide a card (physical or apple pay) for a spot check. You seem to have suffered remarkably bad luck to encounter all three issues on your journey.
We're not here to investigate what happened or to make assumptions beyond what you say, but if you want good advice you need to not bend the truth to try and make things sound better for yourself.
I get your point now.
No charge on my phone. The phone was not be touched successfully when I were in. After they made me feel scared on the morning, I did not touch out as well. I really want to pay £40 on that morning and this is not a big issue for me. I thought I will get a penalty fare in a few days. But it seems like they would send me a letter after I read though other people sharing stories. I feel so stressful now
So you didn't touch in, had no other ticket, and turned around - coincidentally - when you saw the inspectors. I think it is easy to understand why they may have felt you were intending to avoid the fare, no?
We're not here to investigate what happened or to make assumptions beyond what you say, but if you want good advice you need to not bend the truth to try and make things sound better for yourself.
We could put this advice in every thread on this part of the forum!
Indeed, our advice won't be appropriate unless we actually know what happened. Giving posters here an edited or sanitised version of what actually happened will only cheat the OP.
The OP has not yet assisted us with what happened next. Equipped with only a phone which apparently will not activate the Oyster/contactless system, he needs to return home to collect the missing file, and then make another new journey to his original destination. Although that is not relevant to the outcome of the penalty fare charged for not having touched in (possibly device malfunction) and having no means to pay an on the spot penalty fare.
So with no maximum fare, it’s clear that you didn’t tap in at the start of the journey? My recollection (although I don’t use Apple Pay) is that when you tap in/out at a stand alone reader it beeps to give a positive confirmation that the transaction has been recorded. Is that correct? If so, why would there be any ambiguity as to whether you had tapped in.
Yes. I use my apple pay this morning and the first touch is failed. It still came out the sound. But I watched the small monitor every time now. I touched it again. It happened sometime the card reader could not read the apple pay.
I was in rush on that day morning and normally I dont pay attention to wathc the small monitor sometimes.
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Yes. I use my apple pay this morning and the first touch is failed. It still came out the sound. But I watched the small monitor every time now. I touched it again. It happened sometime the card reader could not read the apple pay.
I was in rush on that day morning and normally I dont pay attention to wathc the small monitor sometimes.
For what it is worth, I find Apple Pay to be incredibly flaky when I've used it on LU. You can deal with that (other than annoying people stacked up behind) at a gateline because it won't let you in until the touch was successful, but at a DLR terminal it could be an issue. The sound of a failed touch is different - one long beep for "yes", two three short ones for "no" - but that would be easy to miss in a hurry.
I find it so flaky in fact that I generally prefer to use a debit card. Perhaps you should consider switching - if you only carry your phone, there are plenty of iPhone cases that have a slot in the back for a debit card.
See, to be bluntly honest I'm not sure I believe that they refused to check you'd tapped in given what you said earlier:
For what it's worth, some of the oldest tricks when it comes to fare evasion are not tapping in at an unbarriered station, doing a u-turn when revenue protection is spotted and failing to provide a card (physical or apple pay) for a spot check. You seem to have suffered remarkably bad luck to encounter all three issues on your journey.
We're not here to investigate what happened or to make assumptions beyond what you say, but if you want good advice you need to not bend the truth to try and make things sound better for yourself.
I understand no matter you did touch and you did not pay attation to watch the small monitor or not. They will not listen all these stories.
If they confirmed I did not touch my apple pay succesfully, I understand it is my duty to pay any penalty.
But they did not check on that day and just kept asking me you were sure you touched in? I knew I did not watch the monitor at all. I did not know. He suggested me to pay the penalty. I agreeed with it.
I think the OP has to put this down as a learning experience, albeit a costly one, and pay whatever charge TfL levy on them. Then it's continue checking very carefully every tap in with whatever means of payment they choose.
For what it is worth, I find Apple Pay to be incredibly flaky when I've used it on LU. You can deal with that (other than annoying people stacked up behind) at a gateline because it won't let you in until the touch was successful, but at a DLR terminal it could be an issue. The sound of a failed touch is different - one long beep for "yes", three short ones for "no" - but that would be easy to miss in a hurry.
I find it so flaky in fact that I generally prefer to use a debit card. Perhaps you should consider switching - if you only carry your phone, there are plenty of iPhone cases that have a slot in the back for a debit card.
Thank you so much. I just notice the sound is difference this morning. Right now, I pay full attention to use my apple pay now. This morning, I did fail at the first time. I touched it again and notice the sound is a little bit difference.
I would like all DLR station have entry berries. I need to pay full attention to touch in and out and watch the monitor.
I hope that I could receive any letter asap and I could solve it out.
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I think the OP has to put this down as a learning experience, albeit a costly one, and pay whatever charge TfL levy on them. Then it's continue checking very carefully every tap in with whatever means of payment they choose.
I really worry they will send me a court letter and they kept saying you refuse to pay right now,we will procesute you on the spot.
I think they need a professional training when they talk to passengers.
I gave them all information trufully and they still think I did not want to pay them.
If I need to get the solicitor to reply on my behalf, it is very costly for this £1.5 trip
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For what it is worth, I find Apple Pay to be incredibly flaky when I've used it on LU. You can deal with that (other than annoying people stacked up behind) at a gateline because it won't let you in until the touch was successful, but at a DLR terminal it could be an issue. The sound of a failed touch is different - one long beep for "yes", three short ones for "no" - but that would be easy to miss in a hurry.
I find it so flaky in fact that I generally prefer to use a debit card. Perhaps you should consider switching - if you only carry your phone, there are plenty of iPhone cases that have a slot in the back for a debit card.
I hear only one short beep for ''no'' this morning.
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Does anyone knows how soon I will receive the TFL letter? The Christmas holiday and New Year Holiday are coming.
I felt my working address for the letter.
Does anyone knows how soon I will receive the TFL letter? The Christmas holiday and New Year Holiday are coming.
I felt my working address for the letter.
Can't say for certain - could be up to 6 months time, but other posts on other thread say you might expect to wait around 6 weeks for it (perhaps). It will almost certainly not be in the next few days even if it is in less time than 6 weeks as I would expect more staff to be on holidays this time of year which slows down their speed of sending out such letters..
If you move house / move address in that time (6 to 8 months) and have not already got the letter you need to set up an official postal redirect with Royal Mail to be sure you get post to your new address or there is a likelihood of you being taken to court without knowing it - which is best avoided as it will create more problems.
Can't say for certain - could be up to 6 months time, but other posts on other thread say you might expect to wait around 6 weeks for it (perhaps). It will almost certainly not be in the next few days even if it is in less time than 6 weeks as I would expect more staff to be on holidays this time of year which slows down their speed of sending out such letters..
If you move house / move address in that time (6 to 8 months) and have not already got the letter you need to set up an official postal redirect with Royal Mail to be sure you get post to your new address or there is a likelihood of you being taken to court without knowing it - which is best avoided as it will create more problems.
I strongly suggest anyone to pay in the spot and they accept bank card long number. I should call my family and ask one to avoid all these headache.
But I have so many scarm calls and messages. That is why I do not want to provide long bank card number.
If they ask you cash payment, just pay for it first. I am not sure it is correct or not. But we only lost £40 and could avoid this issue.
I never know they could go back to the office and change their mind to send me a verification letter in stead. Hopefully NOT.
www.reeds.co.uk
