linespeed on HS1 question, st panky to the tunnel

[Tin Rocket]

does anyone know how soon the eurostar gets up to linespeed coming out of panky and what is the max linespeed of eurostar in england and then in france?cheers,also what do the javelins do is it 140?cant find HS1 in a sectional appendix.

 

[cle]

I don't think it hits 186 until well into Kent. And apparently it rarely does... I think the tunnel from St P to Dagenham is 125 also.

The Javelins are booked to run at 125 sadly, but then use 140 to make up time and for padding.

 

[starrymarkb]

I believe it is 230km/h from St Pancras to Ebbsfleet, then 300km/h to Ashford where there is a restriction of 270km/h then 300km/h to the tunnel

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Every Eurostar I have been on since HS1 opened has done at least 180 between Ebbsfleet and Ashford and at leaat 75% have touched the 186. The fastest section appears to be Ashford to Ebbsfleet in the up direction; I have hit the full 186 there on trains which have stopped at both stations.

 

[Jordeh]

What's theoretically the fastest speed on High Speed 1 though with faster trains as 186 is max for Eurostar I believe?

 

[Edvid]

300km/h is the max linespeed on HS1 regardless of rolling stock.

 

[swt_passenger]

In the HS1 network statement the boundary between the two max speeds is Southfleet Jn (the Waterloo connection), so just east of Ebbsfleet.

They show 230 kph between St Pancras Int and Southfleet Jn, and 300 kph east of Southfleet Jn...

 

[moonrakerz]

As a matter of interest what are the speed limits actually posted as ?
kph or mph ?
What do the speedos in the cab indicate ?

I believe road signs in kilometers or kph are actually illegal in the UK.

 

[jopsuk]

Britain has been slowly going metric since Victorian times. Very slowly. I think it was under Gladstone or Disraeli the process started though.
The newest "milestone" markers on motorways are metric.

On rail:
Tyne and Wear Metro runs in metric. HS1 runs in metric. The new ERTMS system in Wales is in km.

If you believe road signs in metric measures are illegal, can you find the legislation which says so? It is all more or less in the public domain.

 

[jon0844]

It would make sense for us to switch to metric for speed limits and road signs. Obviously there's a period of crossover, and that would/will cost a lot of money, but it must surely happen given we've been metric for so long.

I left school in 1990 and we were metric then! Of course, if you read the Daily Mail then you'll still want imperial measurements because we're only going metric because of pressure from Europe...!

 

[Trog]

If you believe road signs in metric measures are illegal, can you find the legislation which says so? It is all more or less in the public domain.

The 2002 Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions require that....


Distances on signs for [motorists/pedestrians] be described in yards and miles only. Metric units are not permitted.

Height and width restrictions be described in feet and inches. Metric may also be used, but only alongside, and not as an alternative to, imperial units.


From a web site with an axe to grind, but probably still true.

http://www.bwmaonline.com/Transport - DfT memo.htm
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It would make sense for us to switch to metric for speed limits and road signs. Obviously there's a period of crossover, and that would/will cost a lot of money, but it must surely happen given we've been metric for so long.

I left school in 1990 and we were metric then! Of course, if you read the Daily Mail then you'll still want imperial measurements because we're only going metric because of pressure from Europe...!

Why waste millions of pounds changing things that work just fine as they are?
Lets face it the main advantage of metric measure so far has been to shops who round down the size of items while keeping the price the same.

 

[moonrakerz]

If you believe road signs in metric measures are illegal, can you find the legislation which says so? It is all more or less in the public domain.

That has already been answered.

What does annoy me to some extent is the ludicrous way that some organisations convert EVERYTHING to metric - regardless of whether that actually is the correct unit.

One of the TV "rescue" programmes does this. Land distances are given in Kilometers (despite this, technically, being illegal). The aircrew are always heard referring to Miles ! (and fuel load in lbs)
Nautical distances are given as Kilometers - the international unit of sea distance is the Nautical Mile; ship speeds are measured in Knots: Nautical Miles per hour.
Rescue helicopters are quoted as hovering at 50 meters; the international unit for aircraft height is the Imperial Foot.

The result is confusion for the sake of it - last week one of these programmes referred to a Scottish mountain as being over 3500 meters in height !!

My favourite is the one that says apply fertiliser to your lawn at the rate of 113.5 grams per 0.8734 sq meters - it used to be 4oz per sq yd. I can manage the 113.5 grams, but have you tried measuring out 0.8734 sq meters !!

 

[Sapphire Blue]

That has already been answered.

What does annoy me to some extent is the ludicrous way that some organisations convert EVERYTHING to metric - regardless of whether that actually is the correct unit.

One of the TV "rescue" programmes does this. Land distances are given in Kilometers (despite this, technically, being illegal). The aircrew are always heard referring to Miles ! (and fuel load in lbs)
Nautical distances are given as Kilometers - the international unit of sea distance is the Nautical Mile; ship speeds are measured in Knots: Nautical Miles per hour.
Rescue helicopters are quoted as hovering at 50 meters; the international unit for aircraft height is the Imperial Foot.

The result is confusion for the sake of it - last week one of these programmes referred to a Scottish mountain as being over 3500 meters in height !!

My favourite is the one that says apply fertiliser to your lawn at the rate of 113.5 grams per 0.8734 sq meters - it used to be 4oz per sq yd. I can manage the 113.5 grams, but have you tried measuring out 0.8734 sq meters !!

You could ask your grandad to borrow his old measuring stick and measure out 36 inches by 36 inches. I think that may be close enough

But seriously - doesn't everyone use a mixture of metric and imperial all the time?

Examples.

when its hot its 80'
when its cold its minus 5'

when I walk to town its a mile and a half (I did today)
when I buy glass its 6mm (I also did today)


We all understand so there is no need to be a metric OR an imperial bigot about it.

 

[TGV]

300km/h is reached at Medway. it's 270 before that and 230 most of the way through the London and Thames Tunnels, with the above restriction at Ashford. Most trains will tickle 300 again between Ashford and Dollands moor before having to brake for the tunnel restriction of 160km/h. In Northern France it's pretty much 300 the whole way apart from Lille Europe station and the junction beyond to Brussels/Paris. After that, on the way to PNO, it'll be flat out all the way until you back off for the transition to classic lines just north of Gonesse - where the maximum is usually 200km/h (125mph), but there are sometimes restrictions in this area and/or congestion - it's a busy route into Paris.

As for service speeds - some drivers will hover at the 300 mark, but most will dial it down to around 295 or so. That's enough to make the timetable without needed to constantly check the thing back on down gradients.

I've been in the cab with 303 on the clock on HS1. The fastest we've gone is 334km/h in a standard set on HS1 and it had more to come, but we ran out of track...

Moonrakerz: the cab indicates in km/h when the train is configured for HS running to tie in with the TVM.

 

[jon0844]

Why waste millions of pounds changing things that work just fine as they are?
Lets face it the main advantage of metric measure so far has been to shops who round down the size of items while keeping the price the same.

I agree about the cost, but that's the only valid reason for not changing things.

The last bit is a typical rant from someone who just wants to live in the past. We're a metric country! You still buy bottles of milk as 0.568L so how is anything rounded down? I don't see any big conspiracy - and people can still do the maths to work out what something is in the 'old' measurements. Face it, prices are always going to go up - it would happen anyway.

For the record, I use imperial a lot but only because you have to. Try telling someone your height or weight in metric and many people just look all confused! I am happy to keep things as they are and we change as and when. We all have to work with both, but eventually metric will win - and I see no point in anyone fighting to keep the old ways out of any sort of tradition or sentimental reasons.

Metric is a damn sight easier, and if you go fully metric then you no longer need to work out what a yard/acre is in metric and come up with a crazy number - as you'd only be looking at metric measurements in the first place.

 

[Ploughman]

Rail distances may be recorded in Miles and Yards or Miles and Chains.
But all new works or major improvements such as electrification will also be recorded in KM.
The fun comes when trying to tie in a record of an old bridge listed as being at say 23m 23ch and then trying to locate it when the KM distance is from London possibly and puts the distance down as 385.925 or the like.
You can get a clue as the OHLE mast numbers indicate the kilometerage.

 

[moonrakerz]

when I buy glass its 6mm (I also did today)

I ask for a pint .............

We all understand so there is no need to be a metric OR an imperial bigot about it.

Absolutely !!

 

[starrymarkb]

it may interest you signed distances on Motorways are in miles, but then there are KM posts every 500m!

As for metrification that dates back to Victorian times. There was a dispute with the French over measurements and the location of the Prime Meridian (0 degrees). We wanted it in Greenwich, the French in Paris!

The Compromise was that the world went Metric and 0 degrees is Greenwich!

 

[Trog]

You can get a clue as the OHLE mast numbers indicate the kilometerage.

Or sometimes the mileage depending when the electrification was done.

 

[shinkansen1966]

I have no problem with distances and speeds going all metric. The HST125 becoming the HST 200 ! After all, fuel is sold in litres. Shorter distances like carpet lengths are sold in metres. Let's have km/h for railways and roads.

 

[thelem]

My favourite is the one that says apply fertiliser to your lawn at the rate of 113.5 grams per 0.8734 sq meters - it used to be 4oz per sq yd. I can manage the 113.5 grams, but have you tried measuring out 0.8734 sq meters !!

That's just lazy conversion though. It would make much more sense to say 130 grams / sq meter (rounded to the nearest gram, should be more than accurate enough). The same applies to most examples of conversions giving silly numbers - tweak the figures a little (not enough to matter) and you have a round number again.

 

[jopsuk]

Aye- not as if that 4oz per sq yard will have been a hugely accurate measure in the first place- it'll have been done to the nearest ounce no doubt, far less accurate than the nearest gram!

 

[TGV]

This may be controversial, but does it matter if we use metric or imperial? I don't find it too hard to convert in my head what I need to.

The one that amuses me is tyre measurements: e.g. 255/45/18

255 = tread width in mm
45 = profile height as a percentage (dimensionless) of the tread width
18 = wheel rim diameter in inches.

Genius.

 

[jon0844]

It amuses me too, until I see the price of such a tyre.

 

[TGV]

Tell me about it. That was an example from my car. The run flat replacement that bmw insist you must use was £198!